Blumat auto watering

[Ez Rider]

Do you actually READ what you TYPE ?, or just call names and insult people ?

Wow, just wow

PS:The pressurized system was invented loooong before Blumat came along, the basic principles haven't changed in efficient operation. Everyone should size pump/expansion tank accordingly based on grow style/pot size/total consumption, anyone that believes a 2-4 oz. fluid capacity can effectively feed/water a medium/large grow space...is either delusional/stoned/crazy.

You do realize that most people use a reservoir, not the accumulator to store the bulk of their water? The small accumulator is so that you don't need some gigantic, expensive pressure vessel sitting around. Who claimed that blumat invented anything but blumats? You can voice you're uninformed opinions as obnoxiously as you'd like, that doesn't make you correct. You obviously know very little, or you'd run your mouth a lot less. Do you have any reasoned arguments to offer, or just name calling? I think I've pretty clearly shown that your statements don't make any sense, and your only response is to insult me and call me names...Bravo.

 

[rives]

wow 1 1/4" return line ! i was thinking 3/4" because i'll use a 1/2" line to feed the bucket ....... not enough ??? should i go bigger on the 2 lines ?

the 8mm line will only be a few feet from the tray , so it won't be to long .

& my 4' measurement is from the bottom of the 5 gallon rez to the top of my pots . so by going with the top of the rez , i actually have 5' of head pressure .

Thank you EZ & Rives !!!

I used 3/4" on the pump pressure line for the simple reason that a 1/2" line was too floppy - a 9' stick of 1/2" pvc is only marginally stiffer than a hose! It makes no difference on the delivered volume, though.

I went with 1-1/4" on the return for a couple of reasons - as I stated up above, I used to work on industrial hydraulic systems, and return line back pressure is to be avoided at all costs. In this case, I wanted to make absolutely certain that the upper rez wouldn't overflow. The incremental cost of the components was only a few dollars more, so.....

 

[Bwanabud]

You do realize that most people use a reservoir, not the accumulator to store the bulk of their water? The small accumulator is so that you don't need some gigantic, expensive pressure vessel sitting around. Who claimed that blumat invented anything but blumats? You can voice you're uninformed opinions as obnoxiously as you'd like, that doesn't make you correct. You obviously know very little, or you'd run your mouth a lot less. Do you have any reasoned arguments to offer, or just name calling? I think I've pretty clearly shown that your statements don't make any sense, and your only response is to insult me and call me names...Bravo.

I didn't call you any names, you were the one throwing insults...very first post was calling me a bullshitter, followed by many more names and insults from you...I wasn't aware you were in charge of this thread, you seem threatened by any info by others.

Have a good day and hit the ignore button on me, then I won't have to respond or listen to you

 

[Ez Rider]

I used 3/4" on the pump pressure line for the simple reason that a 1/2" line was too floppy - a 9' stick of 1/2" pvc is only marginally stiffer than a hose! It makes no difference on the delivered volume, though.

I went with 1-1/4" on the return for a couple of reasons - as I stated up above, I used to work on industrial hydraulic systems, and return line back pressure is to be avoided at all costs. In this case, I wanted to make absolutely certain that the upper rez wouldn't overflow. The incremental cost of the components was only a few dollars more, so.....

I'd agree with rives. I started with supply/return the same size...no bueno. The supply is under pressure from the pump, and is delivering more water that a same-size line can return unaided. I believe I was running 1/2" supply and 1" return on my gravity system.

I didn't call you any names, you were the one throwing insults...very first post was calling me a bullshitter, followed by many more names and insults from you...I wasn't aware you were in charge of this thread, you seem threatened by any info by others.

Have a good day and hit the ignore button on me, then I won't have to respond or listen to you

It's not an insult to call bullshit on a bullshitter. I'm not threatened by "knowledge", but I'm annoyed by people spouting senseless bullshit. Like I've said, I have clearly shown the inconsistencies of your statements, to which you have no answer. I have asked several reasonable questions regarding your statements, all of which you have chosen to ignore. You've wasted a fair amount of space telling us all how smart you are, but I've seen absolutely nothing to back it up. You keep bashing a system that's proven to work based on mine and others experience. This tells me either: A) You have no idea what you're talking about or...well there really isn't an "or". I'm not in charge of this thread, but it's always open season on "people" like you. Either say something serious, or crawl back in your hole

 

[Bwanabud]

It's not an insult to call bullshit on a bullshitter. I'm not threatened by "knowledge", but I'm annoyed by people spouting senseless bullshit. Like I've said, I have clearly shown the inconsistencies of your statements, to which you have no answer. I have asked several reasonable questions regarding your statements, all of which you have chosen to ignore. You've wasted a fair amount of space telling us all how smart you are, but I've seen absolutely nothing to back it up. You keep bashing a system that's proven to work based on mine and others experience. This tells me either: A) You have no idea what you're talking about or...well there really isn't an "or". I'm not in charge of this thread, but it's always open season on "people" like you. Either say something serious, or crawl back in your hole

Wow you were a bully in school huh ?, fat kid with acne ?, never got laid ?

I stated the facts and provided the spec sheet from Shurflo, it's a 2-4 oz. fluid capacity that keeps being inferred as 26 oz. Blumat also sells a larger unit, according to some members that must be for the 1000 plant grow ? It's a basic concept that anyone can grasp, do your own research for optimum performance to fit your needs.

Here's the pump curve flow chart for those interested
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...sg=AFQjCNFJhsBhT4gX6u4ZUYuFmT7dl2Abyg&cad=rja



EZ...just hit the ignore button PLEASE

 

[Ez Rider]

Wow you were a bully in school huh ?, fat kid with acne ?, never got laid ?

I stated the facts and provided the spec sheet from Shurflo, it's a 2-4 oz. fluid capacity that keeps being inferred as 26 oz. Blumat also sells a larger unit, according to some members that must be for the 1000 plant grow ? It's a basic concept that anyone can grasp, do your own research for optimum performance to fit your needs.

Here's the pump curve flow chart for those interested
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...sg=AFQjCNFJhsBhT4gX6u4ZUYuFmT7dl2Abyg&cad=rja



EZ...just hit the ignore button PLEASE

The only "fact" you've stated so far, is that you're too incompetent to get a simple demand pump/accumulator system to work properly. You provide inconsistent, nonsensical details of your alleged "experience", and ignore reasonable questions, all the while belittling and insulting me. You can prop up as many straw men, and post as many pump curves as you'd like. Nothing's going to change the fact that you are a loudmouthed, ignorant, know-nothing. Since you have no interest or ability for an intelligent discourse, I bid you a fond F**K OFF! I am done with you.

 

[Bwanabud]

The only "fact" you've stated so far, is that you're too incompetent to get a simple demand pump/accumulator system to work properly. You provide inconsistent, nonsensical details of your alleged "experience", and ignore reasonable questions, all the while belittling and insulting me. You can prop up as many straw men, and post as many pump curves as you'd like. Nothing's going to change the fact that you are a loudmouthed, ignorant, know-nothing. Since you have no interest or ability for an intelligent discourse, I bid you a fond F**K OFF! I am done with you.

Perfect !!! have a great night

Now back to scheduled programming.

 

[Sforza]

Dual expansion tanks are used regularly in series, it's good sense for domestic water...if a tank goes bad you close the valve, and still have an operational system + it doubles holding capacity.

Dual expansion tanks are used in well water systems, but in parallel, not in series, correct? If the two tanks were in series, if you shut the value on one tank, you would be cutting off the water flow to both tanks.

In general, bigger pressure tanks in well systems are better because it is easier on the pump. It is a pain in the ass to have to pull a pump out of a well and rebuild it. It is much easier to use a large pressure tank to preserve the life of your pump. From the view of the well pump and from the end user, it doesn't matter if you use two 50 gallon pressure tanks or one 100 gallon tank.

At least that is how I understand it.

 

[Sforza]

Also, I'm in my house, not a warehouse. Space is at a premium. At 3gp, I'd need an accumulator with a 15gal capacity to run for several minutes.

I had to replace the pressure tank for the well at my property in the mountains. I had to read up on how a pressure tank works and how to size it. Bigger is better, but bigger also costs more so I compromised, since I am only living there for a week or two at a time.

I bought my pressure tank from home depot or lowe's, I forget which one, because I was pricing tanks from both. But if you check Home Depot's website, they have pressure tanks that are four or eight gallons that are not that large.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Water-Worker-2-Gal-Pressurized-Well-Tank-HT2B/202846475
DIMENSIONS
Equivalent Capacity (gallons) 1
Product Height (in.) 13
Product Depth (in.) 8
Product Width (in.) 8
Product Diameter (in.) 8

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Water-Worker-6-Gal-Horizontal-Well-Pressure-Tank-HT6HB/202846489
DIMENSIONS
Equivalent Capacity (gallons) 12
Product Height (in.) 11
Product Depth (in.) 10.5
Product Width (in.) 18.2
Product Diameter (in.) 11

 

[Sforza]

i think the 5 gallon bucket above the 30 gallon might be the best option for right now . the 5 gallon would be 5'5" to the bottom of the bucket off the ground & about 4' above the plants/carrots, that should be enough head pressure right ?

It works fine for me for a 12 carrot system. With the low pressure system, you might have to adjust them a for a few days. Make tiny adjustments and wait at least a day or two between adjustments. Don't fuck with too much or you'll go from one extreme to the other.

 

[Ez Rider]

Dual expansion tanks are used in well water systems, but in parallel, not in series, correct? If the two tanks were in series, if you shut the value on one tank, you would be cutting off the water flow to both tanks.

In general, bigger pressure tanks in well systems are better because it is easier on the pump. It is a pain in the ass to have to pull a pump out of a well and rebuild it. It is much easier to use a large pressure tank to preserve the life of your pump. From the view of the well pump and from the end user, it doesn't matter if you use two 50 gallon pressure tanks or one 100 gallon tank.

At least that is how I understand it.

I have no experience with wells or places that lack city utilities(except on vacation) thank God!

Comparing the flow of a well pump for a residence/business to a demand pump for a blumat system is like comparing a tricycle to a Testa Rossa. Just saying.

My accumulator would not flow until full charged/purged by the demand pump. I'm guessing that valve or no valve, if they're in series, once one fails, you're f'd. I've seen them last for years in boats and rv's, but plan on replacing mine bi-annually...they're pretty affordable. I'd only go parallel if I had a really big grow. I think I could easily add just 1 in parallel, and comfortably run 500 plants. It's not difficult to extrapolate the #'s from what I'm seeing with my current system, and at $40ea, 2 accumulators(or a single,bigger 1) wouldn't be much expense for a 500 plant op. Just my

 

[Ez Rider]

It works fine for me for a 12 carrot system. With the low pressure system, you might have to adjust them a for a few days. Make tiny adjustments and wait at least a day or two between adjustments. Don't fuck with too much or you'll go from one extreme to the other.

That's why I'll never look back on going pressurized. It's much more predictable and reliable.

 

[Bwanabud]

Dual expansion tanks are used in well water systems, but in parallel, not in series, correct? If the two tanks were in series, if you shut the value on one tank, you would be cutting off the water flow to both tanks.

In general, bigger pressure tanks in well systems are better because it is easier on the pump. It is a pain in the ass to have to pull a pump out of a well and rebuild it. It is much easier to use a large pressure tank to preserve the life of your pump. From the view of the well pump and from the end user, it doesn't matter if you use two 50 gallon pressure tanks or one 100 gallon tank.

At least that is how I understand it.

We weren't discussing piping schemes, I used the term metaphorically speaking,,,as in series, dual, tandem, paired, twinned, etc...It was said that you can't do that, I was just stating it was common practice.

The well water system analogy, was intended to explain operation...obviously not similar sizing of pumps or accumulators. But most of my thoughts were lost in insults and insinuations, it was a waste of time to bother to help the larger system users...they will find out on their own.

 

[Ez Rider]

 

[Bwanabud]

 

[Ez Rider]

 

[Jhhnn]

It works fine for me for a 12 carrot system. With the low pressure system, you might have to adjust them a for a few days. Make tiny adjustments and wait at least a day or two between adjustments. Don't fuck with too much or you'll go from one extreme to the other.

That's been my experience as well. A few days of twiddling some of them & I'm dialed in for the duration. If I had a larger effort that was commercial I'd probably go with a pressure regulator system in soil.

 

[skyview]

About the accumulator/pressure tank sizing discussion above, I had a long talk with the Shurflo top technical person. He recommended that systems be sized so that the pump stays off twice as long or more that it stays on. So if the pump stays on for 10 seconds, it should stay off for at least 20 seconds before coming back on again. If it's coming on sooner than that, it's better to use a larger pressure tank. It will still work fine without a larger one but the pump will burn out sooner. You can also do the math and get close: an average blumat carrot in an indoor plant up to 3-4 feet tall uses about 1/4 gallon every 24 hours (about twice that much with plants 6-8' tall). That's only 0.01 gph or 0.0001736 per minute. This is why such a small accumulator tank can handle so many plants.

 

[Ez Rider]

About the accumulator/pressure tank sizing discussion above, I had a long talk with the Shurflo top technical person. He recommended that systems be sized so that the pump stays off twice as long or more that it stays on. So if the pump stays on for 10 seconds, it should stay off for at least 20 seconds before coming back on again. If it's coming on sooner than that, it's better to use a larger pressure tank. It will still work fine without a larger one but the pump will burn out sooner. You can also do the math and get close: an average blumat carrot in an indoor plant up to 3-4 feet tall uses about 1/4 gallon every 24 hours (about twice that much with plants 6-8' tall). That's only 0.01 gph or 0.0001736 per minute. This is why such a small accumulator tank can handle so many plants.

My point exactly. My >4' indoor plants just happen to go through ~1/4gal/plant daily. The claim that a 26oz accumulator and small demand pump can't handle a large blumat system is just ridiculous.

 

[Bwanabud]

You really mean 2-4 oz fluid capacity, not 26 oz.

Damn after hearing this it's got me slightly scared. I just got the e65 pump that's 3 gpm and i think that should work, but we'll see how many plants it will handle. SV claims that i can handle 500 carrots and I only plan on running less than 100 on each pressurized system. I hope it works but we'll see and I'll update you guys with what works and what doesn't within 2 weeks. I wish the best for you guys.

When nastynate comes back with his update, that will clear up the "debate" on accumulator size