Blumat auto watering

[Kozmo]

Lol Thank you both again. I'm on it.

 

[Jhhnn]

I got in and worked some on the plants last night and noticed a few things. The pots ranged from heavy to light, without any appreciable difference in plant appearance. Even the lighter pots were still moist inside, while the heaviest were just shy of runoff. A couple of the drier plants were showing some spots on lower leaves. A ca def most likely(my cut is a ca hog). I dialed the driest plants up an arrow, and the wettest down half an arrow.

I think the real problem is light stress. I started these cuts out under a single 315w cmh, in a 3x3 tent. The lamp was fixed to the roof, ~34" above the plants before I moved them into my larger tent. I transplanted to 4l pots, and moved them to my 5x9 tent(6-315's) In the larger tent(with much better ventilation), I had the lights down to ~20" in the hopes of encouraging faster growth. That was 2 weeks ago yesterday. The plants haven't been too happy since the transplant. I was going over my notes last night, and realized that I'd at least doubled the light intensity the plants were "seeing". When the lights came on yesterday, I thinned out a bunch of lower growth and little sucker branches, adjusted some of the blumats, topped the plants, and raised the lamps up to ~30" above the canopy. After a dark cycle, they're much happier looking. I won't be positive for a few more days, but I'm pretty certain too much light was the issue. I've had worse problems I suppose. Still figuring out how to best employ the 315's. They're different from any other type of lighting I've tried. Just glad it's not the medium. The 80/20 mix is way easier to work with.

@Jhhnn: I believe you're using 315's as well? How high above the canopy do you run them for veg? For flower? I'm using 930's mostly, with a 942 for early veg.FWIW: I've noticed that 6 in a 5x9 are significantly brighter than 1 in a 3x3 in terms of measured PAR.

Also, I'd be interested in hearing more about "organic" ways of employing a blumat system

I grow from seed. I'm just a hobby grower, not a production grower & I've only been at this for a little over 3 years. I just use one space, start a new batch when I harvest the last one.

I start seeds in paper towels, put 'em in beer cups with the soil surface ~3 ft below the twin 315 930's in a converted reflector. I keep the cups in a taller cardboard box w/ a clear cover until the seedlings are up & have their first set of true leaves. When the seedlings are about as tall as the beer cups they go into 3L airpots w/ blumats. Sometimes I just start the seedlings in the airpots when I've planned ahead & mixed the soil. When the seedlings are 12-16" I go to 12/12, sex 'em as soon as I can, up pot the keepers w/ their blumats into 5 gal fabric pots. When the tops get within a foot or so of the glass I move 'em down away from the light a foot or so, & then again if they're really stretchy.

I only have 75" from the glass to the floor so I aim for the plants to finish at 3-4'

There's never any real change in light intensity & no transplant shock at all when moving up from the airpots. They're a breeze when transplanting.

Dunno if that's much help, but it works for me. Ace's soil mix + blumats + occasional teas carry the plants to harvest w/ minimal fuss. I'm thinking strongly of running some fems, starting them directly in the 5 gal pots to make it even easier.

 

[Ez Rider]

I grow from seed. I'm just a hobby grower, not a production grower & I've only been at this for a little over 3 years. I just use one space, start a new batch when I harvest the last one.

I start seeds in paper towels, put 'em in beer cups with the soil surface ~3 ft below the twin 315 930's in a converted reflector. I keep the cups in a taller cardboard box w/ a clear cover until the seedlings are up & have their first set of true leaves. When the seedlings are about as tall as the beer cups they go into 3L airpots w/ blumats. Sometimes I just start the seedlings in the airpots when I've planned ahead & mixed the soil. When the seedlings are 12-16" I go to 12/12, sex 'em as soon as I can, up pot the keepers w/ their blumats into 5 gal fabric pots. When the tops get within a foot or so of the glass I move 'em down away from the light a foot or so, & then again if they're really stretchy.

I only have 75" from the glass to the floor so I aim for the plants to finish at 3-4'

There's never any real change in light intensity & no transplant shock at all when moving up from the airpots. They're a breeze when transplanting.

Dunno if that's much help, but it works for me. Ace's soil mix + blumats + occasional teas carry the plants to harvest w/ minimal fuss. I'm thinking strongly of running some fems, starting them directly in the 5 gal pots to make it even easier.

Thanks for the info Jhhnn. Just wondering: How far off the tops of these 3-4' plants do you keep the lamps? I assume all that soil is to actually "feed" the plant? 5 gal is a huge pot for blumats indoors. I've grown 5', 5oz plants in a 4l airpot, no problem. I was using the blumats to feed, not just to water though. That's been one of the biggest upsides for me: I use 75% less medium than I used to.

 

[Jhhnn]

Thanks for the info Jhhnn. Just wondering: How far off the tops of these 3-4' plants do you keep the lamps? I assume all that soil is to actually "feed" the plant? 5 gal is a huge pot for blumats indoors. I've grown 5', 5oz plants in a 4l airpot, no problem. I was using the blumats to feed, not just to water though. That's been one of the biggest upsides for me: I use 75% less medium than I used to.

I like to keep the tops 1'-2' away from the glass. I usually do mixed grows because I'm exploring so shorter plants end up on inverted buckets & other various spacers as they grow. The light fixture stays in one place. Pics in my albums.

I'm really just learning about organic soils. The nice thing about big pots is that I don't really have to add anything but water & I haven't had a hint of any deficiency with this mix. I can get two rounds from the same batch of soil although the plants appreciate EWC tea more the second time around.

Big pots would be more of an issue with a larger grow but I only flower 6 at a time, our Denver/ A64 limit. When I do it well we can get 600g of trimmed dry bud per harvest, more than enough for family & friends. It's just my hobby- none of it is ever sold.

 

[dansbuds]

Been awhile sense i stopped in this thread lol

can you guys point me to a working link that sells the patio kits ? Thinking about setting them up in veg for my 3 gallon pots to veg out before flower . used them quite awhile ago , but haven't had the headroom to set up a rez untill now .

thanx

nevermind , got it .... https://www.sustainablevillage.com/i...=304&limit=100

 

[Ez Rider]

Been awhile sense i stopped in this thread lol

can you guys point me to a working link that sells the patio kits ? Thinking about setting them up in veg for my 3 gallon pots to veg out before flower . used them quite awhile ago , but haven't had the headroom to set up a rez untill now .

thanx

nevermind , got it .... https://www.sustainablevillage.com/i...=304&limit=100

Don't buy a kit, piece together your own. The 8mm line that comes with the kits is CRAP, just for starters! Get the soft, silicone line instead. If you contact SV, they're happy to work with you. I'd also highly recommend a demand pump/accumulator setup(don't buy it from SV!) instead of a gravity setup.

 

[rives]

Been awhile sense i stopped in this thread lol

can you guys point me to a working link that sells the patio kits ? Thinking about setting them up in veg for my 3 gallon pots to veg out before flower . used them quite awhile ago , but haven't had the headroom to set up a rez untill now .

thanx

nevermind , got it .... https://www.sustainablevillage.com/i...=304&limit=100

Dan, Costco had some killer pricing on the patio kits a while back.

 

[Bwanabud]

Don't buy a kit, piece together your own. The 8mm line that comes with the kits is CRAP, just for starters! Get the soft, silicone line instead. If you contact SV, they're happy to work with you. I'd also highly recommend a demand pump/accumulator setup(don't buy it from SV!) instead of a gravity setup.

I basically agree with this, the orange silicone is a better product for fishing thru plants...the accumulator system of Blumat's is total shit, I installed a much better set up on mine.

 

[Ez Rider]

I basically agree with this, the orange silicone is a better product for fishing thru plants...the accumulator system of Blumat's is total shit, I installed a much better set up on mine.

How is the pump/accumulator set up from SV "crap"? I'd agree that it's grossly overpriced, but shurflo components have always been very reliable for me in rv and marine applications, both of which are quite a bit more demanding than running blumats. I could see maybe putting together something with a bigger pump and accumulator for a very large garden, but still don't see how it would be any "better", just bigger. A demand pump is a demand pump, an accumulator is an accumulator. Shurflo is pretty much an industry standard.

 

[Bwanabud]

How is the pump/accumulator set up from SV "crap"? I'd agree that it's grossly overpriced, but shurflo components have always been very reliable for me in rv and marine applications, both of which are quite a bit more demanding than running blumats. I could see maybe putting together something with a bigger pump and accumulator for a very large garden, but still don't see how it would be any "better", just bigger. A demand pump is a demand pump, an accumulator is an accumulator. Shurflo is pretty much an industry standard.

I don't have a problem with [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Shurflo products, but a 26 oz. accumulator is a joke. No different than a well system the pressure tank should be doing the main work...not the pump. The standard set up runs far too much, if you have the flush stakes it runs non-stop.

I'm a hydronics specialist, and know well pump systems in depth...for a small garden the standard set up may work...but anything over 20 plants and you'll be changing the parts fast...mine made it 12 hours, and I was ordering sized components for reliable & quiet operation.

BTW: I even installed 2 Shurflo accumulators in series, still a fkn joke...pump won't last long with those kind of cycle times.
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[Sforza]

I am not an expert, but I do agree that with a well, the bigger the pressure tank, within reason of course, the better. A larger pressure tank means that pump runs less often and when it does run, it runs for a longer time.

 

[Ez Rider]

I don't have a problem with [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Shurflo products, but a 26 oz. accumulator is a joke. No different than a well system the pressure tank should be doing the main work...not the pump. The standard set up runs far too much, if you have the flush stakes it runs non-stop.

I'm a hydronics specialist, and know well pump systems in depth...for a small garden the standard set up may work...but anything over 20 plants and you'll be changing the parts fast...mine made it 12 hours, and I was ordering sized components for reliable & quiet operation.

BTW: I even installed 2 Shurflo accumulators in series, still a fkn joke...pump won't last long with those kind of cycle times.
[/FONT]

I'm running 32 plants with the 26oz accumulator and a 3gpm demand pump. The pump cycles for less than 3 seconds every 10-20min depending on conditions. It's been running for over 3 months with no issues. I plan on replacing the pump/accumulator bi-annually, whether it needs it or not. The pump and accumulator are both guaranteed for 3 years in any event. I'm confident I could run twice and many drippers with no issue besides the pump cycling every 5-10min instead of 10-20. YMMV.

Did you repressurize the accumulator to ~35psi, or leave it at the 20psi it comes with? You need to add pressure once you get it. They only come with 20psi due to shipping/transport restrictions. Increasing the accumulators internal pressure will reduce pump cycles dramatically. YMMV.

Unless you're overfeeding, why would you need flush stakes? I just feed light and switch to plain water for the last 2 weeks. Again...YMMV.

 

[dansbuds]

never had any problems before using the 8mm & 3mm lines before when i used them . besides , its just for vegging before flower ... 12 pots max & my rez is only a couple feet away . i would love to use my 30 gallon that sits on the floor though . would a small 185gph pump on 15 min on & 15 min off be to much pressure on the lines ? or should i go with a system like EZ's ?

 

[rives]

never had any problems before using the 8mm & 3mm lines before when i used them . besides , its just for vegging before flower ... 12 pots max & my rez is only a couple feet away . i would love to use my 30 gallon that sits on the floor though . would a small 185gph pump on 15 min on & 15 min off be to much pressure on the lines ? or should i go with a system like EZ's ?

Blumats are extremely sensitive to feed pressure fluctuations - running with an intermittent pump sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. You could either go with a system like EZ's or a small elevated reservoir fed from your 30 gallon one. My systems are set up like that, with a lift pump running a couple of times a day for 5 minutes or so and the excess just draining back to the lower rez via a large overflow line.

 

[Ez Rider]

Blumats are extremely sensitive to feed pressure fluctuations - running with an intermittent pump sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. You could either go with a system like EZ's or a small elevated reservoir fed from your 30 gallon one. My systems are set up like that, with a lift pump running a couple of times a day for 5 minutes or so and the excess just draining back to the lower rez via a large overflow line.

You'll need a demand pump, not a fountain pump for a pressurized set up. I started with a setup similar to rives'(I copy him a lot) I wanted to eliminate the upper rez, and I figured the sensors would be more reliable with a constant pressure(they are). Also, the gurgling from the upper recirculating to the lower would startle my dog and make her BARK! The demand pump is pretty quiet, and only cycles for a few seconds a few times an hour. Doesn't scare the dog or anything According to tropf, the optimum operating pressure is 14.7psi, or 34' of head pressure. The average grower can get ~7'max of head pressure with a gravity system. 7' of head = ~3psi...quite a difference. I'm not knocking gravity, I just find the pressurized system to be more reliable. In regards to initial set up, evenly watering all the plants, and not having runaway drippers after initial setup.

 

[nastynate420]

Damn after hearing this it's got me slightly scared. I just got the e65 pump that's 3 gpm and i think that should work, but we'll see how many plants it will handle. SV claims that i can handle 500 carrots and I only plan on running less than 100 on each pressurized system. I hope it works but we'll see and I'll update you guys with what works and what doesn't within 2 weeks. I wish the best for you guys.

 

[nastynate420]

So far I think that the best setup is what I've got going and this dosatron inline http://growershouse.com/dosatron-water-powered-doser-11-gpm-1-1000-to-1-112. I don't necessarily care what website you get it from but this seems to be the cheapest but that's up to you. If the mods deem this unacceptable please delete it. I'm to trying to promote any specific, it's just that this is the cheapest that I've found but if anybody finds cheaper please let me know!

 

[Ez Rider]

Damn after hearing this it's got me slightly scared. I just got the e65 pump that's 3 gpm and i think that should work, but we'll see how many plants it will handle. SV claims that i can handle 500 carrots and I only plan on running less than 100 on each pressurized system. I hope it works but we'll see and I'll update you guys with what works and what doesn't within 2 weeks. I wish the best for you guys.

Depending on your pot size, you should be able to handle 100 carrots without a problem. Unless you're growing trees or water only/organic soil, anything bigger than a 4l pot is a waste IMO.

 

[dansbuds]

Blumats are extremely sensitive to feed pressure fluctuations - running with an intermittent pump sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. You could either go with a system like EZ's or a small elevated reservoir fed from your 30 gallon one. My systems are set up like that, with a lift pump running a couple of times a day for 5 minutes or so and the excess just draining back to the lower rez via a large overflow line.

i'll talk to EZ to see what his set up is like , but i think the 5 gallon bucket above the 30 gallon might be the best option for right now . the 5 gallon would be 5'5" to the bottom of the bucket off the ground & about 4' above the plants/carrots , that should be enough head pressure right ?

 

[dansbuds]

Don't buy a kit, piece together your own. The 8mm line that comes with the kits is CRAP, just for starters! Get the soft, silicone line instead. If you contact SV, they're happy to work with you. I'd also highly recommend a demand pump/accumulator setup(don't buy it from SV!) instead of a gravity setup.

EZ , can you shoot me a link to what your using so i can check them out ?