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are you a "conspiracy theorist"?

are you a "conspiracy theorist"?


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...but not those who cannot spell or use proper English.
God save the Queen!

I made a typo.. still doesn't really prove your point though does it.

by the way.. you may want to check your own spelling and punctuation throughout the thread.. seeing as you choose to split hairs..
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
government is just a go-between, a kind of press-agent for business.
a buffer the masses can argue and fight over while the strings are pulled elsewhere.
it's always been like that, from the start.

Myers - History of the Great American Fortunes Vol. I (1908)
https://archive.org/details/historyofgreatam01myer
This. America's political system became bought and paid for by private business for well over a century.

The Constitutional experiment was a good idea, but corruption quickly led it to becoming the greatest fascist experiment of all time. The Government is just a puppet for the ruling class.

"Conspiracy theories" happen all the time. All you need is two people colluding to break the law. Be it on a micro level, big business level, or government. People who believe in "conspiracy theories" about the government are labeled "mentally ill libertarians" and people who believe in conspiracy theories about big business are labeled "mentally ill liberals" by the mainstream media.

In any propagandized culture it's important for the masses to view political dissidents as "mentally ill". Specifically in the US it's ok to not trust the blue team or the red team, but if you do not trust either or despise the entire political system then you are "mentally ill." I believe if one can trust and believe in a political system that is wholly corrupt as ours then their mental faculties should be questioned. This was always a big thing growing up overseas for me. People always asked me how come American's are so oblivious to their governments corruption and I never had a good answer until I moved back here as an adult. The answer being the extremely sophisticated propaganda culture that has existed here for decades and decades.

military-socialism-pledgeofallegiance1899.jpg


Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg


Paranoia of totalitarian governments is a healthy thing. It is what this country was founded on in the first place. Most countries people have a slight to great paranoia of government because they have seen so many government's come and go over the decades and have an cultural understanding of bad government.

However, US is blindly obedient to governmental authority, totally brainwashed with the concept of "American Exceptionalism," and wholly apathetic to their status as wage slave second citizens. This is changing though as the corruption and incompetence is so glaringly overt that even the most obedient Americans are starting to question the creditability of our system.

Having said all that when people lose faith in their political system there will be a lot of imaginative explanations for lots of things as people try to search for the truth in an empire of lies. This can lead to what may seem as "grasping for straws", but to me it's people just trying to find their way through the fog.

I personally do not believe the 9/11 official story. I can't say what happened, but I can say that all the evidence points to it being BS and even the commission members acknowledge such. That's all I need to know.

Powerful men conspiring to rule the world is nothing new. Leaders have been trying to do it for thousands of years and it seems foolish to me believe that this sort of thing doesn't go on. I believe it's already been done. Been done for a while now with the banking and ruling class sitting at the top squeezing what little blood from the global wage slave class stone that they can.

The fact that there is a global shift of distrust of governmental systems merely marks the end of covert tyrannical rule and a move to more open domination of the lower classes. We will rise up for a while and then be put down. A new system may emerge controlled much in the same the lasts ones have. Humans seems to oscillate from one tyrannical system to another with brief periods of freedom in between.
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
Actually...



was said just 5 posts before yours that I commented on.

ok so someone tried to find an explanation to fit the facts, it doesn't negate anything i said regarding the many many once in a million occurrences that day. there is not one aspect of the official story that can not be questioned with great validity or even down right proved wrong.


gaiusmarius....

I agree with you to a certain degree regarding what happened on 9/11. Some significant weird and unexpected shit happened that day, and there are historical accounts of "false flag" operations that attest to the possibility that what happened on 9/11 is not what has been reported in the main stream media. I'm not as convinced as you are, but I have an open mind to challenging the government's version of events.

But, I have a question for you. I've only seen you posting on one "conspiracy theory" (9/11) so far in this thread. How do you feel generally about the whole "conspiracy theory" field...there are literally hundreds of 'em out there. Do you think all of these are legit? My guess would be that you don't, and if not, how do you separate the legit theories from the unsupportable theories?

I see many people in this thread basically defending just about any conspiracy theory out there, and making statements that are much more likely based in paranoia than evidence. I mean, even "evidence" itself is being questioned. If you can't agree on what solid evidence is, well then where the hell are we now? Crazy land is my guess.

i wouldn't say i'm convinced 100% what happened, but only what didn't happen. like you said as the years pass documents are declassified from back in time and all of a sudden we see that things were not what we were told they were. in fact when we look at history through the newly declassified documents and film footage we have to admit that false flag events are nothing out of the ordinary. it's a widely used strategy. check out the untold history of the united stated by Oliver Stone. he has re written history using the most up to date government documents and recordings of politicians generals and world leaders involved in key events. it blows your mind when you hear the men in power of those times say it in their own words.

but indeed there are many theories out there and many of them are deliberately planted so those promoting them lose credibility. hence i'm very careful about which theories i can accept and the level of belief or acceptance can change as i see new information. so i don't jump on just any theory that makes sense, there has to be convincing supporting information. thats why 911 is so easy, because as time passes the doubts only get bigger with each new leak or bit of the jigsaw puzzle that goes public. you can go and look at the careers of all the officials that were involved in making the wrong decision that day have all been promoted or killed, died, suicided etc. no one was punished for the greatest failiure to protect the homeland in us history. as time passes the story gets even wilder and more certain as we see the developments.

but i have to admit i will read up on things nowadays that i would have blown off as crazy shit 10 or 15 years ago. with the amount of things that come out you have to start wondering about what they are managing to keep hidden. so i will say, i'm a lot more likely to accept a conspiracy theory being possible today then before 911 happened. basically each one has to be studied intensely for quite a long time actively searching for both sides of the argument and then making your choice based on logic, knowing that more data might surface that will change things with time.


Couldn't the same be said about big business? I understand they aren't exactly the same, but it seems that when people start talking about getting fucked over, it's always about the government, and never about big business. Hell, really any business has the potential to screw it's customers, and be greedy and all that, but big business is where the real nasty stuff happens.

seems to me nowadays big business is often the tool of oppression used by big gov against the people. big business has become the master of the government at the same time, as it pretends to be working for the gov, and it does, earning billions, but at the same time it's lobbying the whole time for less regulation on their side and more possibilities for profit for themselves. as well as lobbying they use the practice of trading jobs, ie. the revolving door story, where the pharma ceo works in the FDA for a while, making a few nice new pharma friendly rules and after a year or 2 he's back to being a pharma ceo who is now making billions more due to the regulations he changed. bankers do the same thing. there is a lot more to it, but it's basically the same in all the big industries, military industrial complex was the first, but there are quite a few other industrial complexes of industry nowadays, and they have enough power to have the laws made the way they want them. same with banking and wall street.

there is a famous saying by a Rothschild if im not mistaken that goes; who cares who makes a countries laws as long as i can issue it's currency.

these are the ones with the real power. not the ones that have to borrow from them to keep the country afloat.

so to me there is no real difference anymore between big business and big government. or if there is, then its big business running things. it's a sad state of affairs when it's lobbyist for the worlds richest and most powerful who really rule most of the world.
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
The Secret History of America
The Greatest Conspiracy On Earth

Do you believe in a GRAND CONSPIRACY ? Do you believe Oswald acted alone ? Do you believe that government is corrupt ? If so, then to what DEGREE ? That may depend on how willing you are to open your eyes and mind to SEE. Why is it that the more things change, the more they stay the same ? Why doesn't society ever seem to grow up ? Most people grow up thinking that the world is very big and we believe the world exists the way it does today because this is the direction humanity has taken and chosen.

The road that we are taking as a nation in America and as a human race on the planet Earth is being paved for us in advance and sold to us for a profit.

Many people talk about conspiracies such as WATERGATE, IRAN-CONTRA, THE S & L (Savings and Loan) SCANDAL, THE FEDERAL RESERVE, OCTOBER SURPRISE, KENNEDY, THE FREEMASONS, THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS and THE TRILATERAL COMMISSION, and even GREY ALIENS, but very few people know the real facts enough to explain them because they are not researched themselves. As information comes down the pipeline it becomes distorted and confused because most of the people passing along the information do not know the entire story, they have not researched much information themselves, and they tend to be biased as well. (They tend to have an angle in the information they put out, usually because they have an ulterior motive. ) I can only state from research of seven years, WHAT I BELIEVE to be the TRUTH based on mostly HARD FACTS.

For AT LEAST five- to ten thousand years, mankind has been aware of MORE scientific and spiritual facts than we are currently aware of today as a great society and nation. The libraries of Alexandria, which held the collection of the world's greatest knowledge, existed in Egypt thousands of years ago. The Essenes were just one secret sect of Gnostics (Knowledge Holders) that existed around two thousand years ago. Since the earliest times of Pagan groups and Nature religions, the SUN has been considered a SYMBOL for LIFE. The Ancients believed that when the SUN gave off it's energy, it was giving IT'S life for US. They believed that the SUN of GOD, the LIGHT of the WORLD is ALL SALVATION because He has RISEN. He is therefore our ETERNAL SAVIOR. There has always been a struggle between LIGHT and DARK forces in the world. When the SUN goes down and it becomes DARK, we cannot SEE. We naturally fear what we do not know and since we cannot SEE in the DARK, we do not know what's there and we fear. When the SUN would SET (Satan), it would get DARK. But when the SUN was on the HORIZON (Horus, translates to Jesus), it would be called THE SAVIOR. This formed the basis for early Christianity.

The Essenes, as well as other secret societies around the times were PRIESTHOODS, so the early CHURCH was an established KNOWLEDGE CENTER with IDEAS ENCODED SYMBOLICALLY into religious text. After time, symbols lose their meaning except to those whom are INITIATED. Essentially, they held knowledge of ARCHETYPAL ENERGIES that bond or link Spirit to matter. These energies are expressed in mathematics and Greek Gematria called SACRED GEOMETRY. The word OCCULT means HIDDEN. They took the knowledge, hid it, and made it appear to be EVIL, so that they would know it, we wouldn't, and they could then control us a lot easier. This allowed an early guild of bricklayers, or MASONS, to be established, making it possible to build great pyramids, etc. Now, if everybody knew how to build a pyramid, then not only would the Pharaoh's tomb be no greater than Joe neighbor's cottage, but the Masons would also lose a lot of money building great castles and churches throughout Europe. This was the basis for early CAPITALISM, but we will discuss this later.

SACRED MUSHROOM ingesting and CANNABIS-smoking shamans are tribe spirit leaders in a sense and they practice inducing a state of consciousness in warrior tribesmen to temporarily replace their consciousness with animal consciousness to perform certain tasks or learn spiritual lessons or principles. There were special groups of assassin cults that were trained in earlier times using substances like hashish and they were called "Hashishans" or "Assassins". Although these two practices are not identical, they are similar and related. While the first example may be considered early natural mind control in the sense of learning to control your own mind, the second example could be considered manipulative mind control in the sense that the participants were trained under hallucinogens to kill for God or "Allah".

The Assassins, as well as a society called The Order of Lady of Sion appeared at the same time around 1090 AD. Out of The Order of Lady of Sion came Notre Dame de Sion and five out of nine of the founders of the KNIGHTS TEMPLAR came from this order. The Templars and Assassins had interlocking affairs and philosophies. They also had ongoing fights as well as commercial dealings. The Templars pronounced vows to poverty and in the meantime amassed great fortunes for the church (really themselves), and were responsible for financing the Crusades and other bloody religious wars. They were also some of the first to set up banks in Jerusalem. These were Temple Banks which occasionally were raided for their gold. This forced the Templars to develop branch banking, or, putting your money in several places so it doesn't all get taken at once. This is where the idea of a central bank and it's local branches comes from, which became the model for banking in Europe and America. The Knights Templar became more popular when they were exposed in the fourteenth century and banished by the king. Jacques de Moley was burned at the stake for being a homosexual and a heretic. A portion of the Templar's wealth was seized by the king and handed over to their sister society, called the Knights Hospitalers, who were a branch of the Templars responsible for medical facilities in the kingdom. There is evidence to suggest that the Templars may have carried themselves on as the Rosicrucians for the next couple of centuries. This really doesn't matter too much, though, because all of these orders or secret societies are offshoots of other ones. They are all Masonic in nature because of the nature of the information which they possess.

The same secret societies and old European bloodline families are in control of the world today. To better understand what they do, we need to look at their philosophies and ideas. One motto of theirs is "Ordo ab Chao" or "order out or chaos". First they create CHAOS, then they propose the solution, ORDER, secretly from behind the scenes to control a given situation. There are different areas of Freemasonry and it is all a hierarchy of power. Occasionally, Masonic groups will work against each other in the public forum through the agencies which they control, but they may be united behind the scenes. You will see examples of what I mean very soon.

The first Masonic lodges by that name appeared in England in the 1600's and within a century they were spread throughout most of Europe, including Germany and France and the colonies of early America. One of the purposes they served was as a forum for the elite individuals to meet and discuss their political and social views without fear of religious persecution. Remember, just a couple of centuries earlier under Rome in the Dark Ages, they would kill you if you didn't believe that the moon was made of green cheese. In Rome, they realized that they could not rule the world by themselves and that they would need a consensus of nations or a United Kingdom and United Nations. The symbol for Fascism is a bundle of sticks wrapped together with a hatchet or an axe tied to it.

It represents a world consensus of power or AXIS POWER. It appears on the U. S. Senate flag today and on the back of the American mercury dime from 1916 to 1945. While there were several enlightened societies around calling themselves illuminated, it was on May 1, 1776 that Professor Adam Weishaupt put together a secret society called The "ILLUMINATI". It's sole purpose secretly was to control the world. Weishaupt was a genius of a particular sort as far as scheming and manipulation are concerned. He was a respected teacher at the University of Ingolstadt at the time and had many connections in education. He became a Mason but was also a Jesuit priest. He learned as much as he could and decided to put his own secret society together. He used a process of initiation and power dissemination among ranks similar to the structure of a pyramid, where one sole individual or group at the top know what's going on but no one else really does, they only know a little until they succeed up the ranks and learn only a little more. In the meantime, they don't know who is watching them or above them keeping them in check.

In the highest circles of the order they propose to control the world through a One-world government, which they stated they could do by converting existing Masons to concepts of Illuminism. Weishaupt told them about the Utopia that could be established on Earth if everyone who KNEW would secretly work together to bring about this plan. Being free-thinkers and atheists to begin with, they proposed abolishing religion, government, orders of class, right to own property, or even raise your own children; and they believed that the ENDS justified the MEANS, meaning that whatever it takes to accomplish this task should be done WITHOUT HESITATION. Within two years they had over 3000 members and many established lodges. Within several years they were exposed and banished from Bavaria. The documents were recovered and displayed in the British museum where they exist today. This is an important historical fact that has been severely covered up in America. They continued to exist, however, in the form of the German Union and scattered Reading Societies. Through their combined fortunes, the members of the Illuminati gained control over the literary societies and printing press. They circulated printed papers showing falsities of religion and abuses of government and promoted a general state of desperation throughout society, all the while blaming it on religion and government. They sought to promote ANARCHY and REVOLUTION, whereby they would strip the monarchy (king) of power using the classes (people) as a lever to ultimately bring power back into their own hands, all the while creating new forms of government which would be puppets they could secretly control from behind the scenes.

In Germany, the lodges which preceded the Illuminati were the Lodge Theodore and the Lodge of Strict Observance. In France they were known as the GRAND ORIENT TEMPLE MASONS. Their motto was "LIBERTY, EQUALITY, FRATERNITY". In 1789, they beheaded the King and Queen of France and orchestrated what was historically known as the French Revolution. This was only the first of several revolutions to come. Weishaupt had succeeded in grabbing the existing reigns of power in both Europe and America, entwining them together using new philosophical concepts, and tightening all of the existing slack.

In 1797, a book appeared in Europe by John Robison called "Proofs of A Conspiracy against all of the Religions and Governments of Europe, Carried on in the Secret Meetings of Freemasons, Illuminati and Reading Societies". Then in 1799, written in another country and in another language, Abbe Augustine Barruel published his four-volume study entitled "Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism". Then in 1826, William Morgan, an American Freemason who had written a book entitled "Illustrations of Freemasonry", was abducted and drowned in Lake Ontario. Because of the existence of these books, as well as the murder scandal, there was a nationwide furor resulting in the creation of an Anti-Masonic political party in 1829. After this there was a temporary drop in membership in the lodges, but their control over the press soon caused the anger to diminish.

There is what is called the "Colombian" faction of the Illuminati which came over to America early on. The documents that were recovered in Germany showed that the symbol for the Illuminati society was the PYRAMID and the EYE IN THE CAPSTONE as shown on the back of the ONE-DOLLAR BILL. The symbol for Columbia Broadcasting System (CBS) is the ALL-SEEING EYE. The U. S. is located in the District of Columbia. There is Columbia University, and the Columbia space shuttle.

The Americas have been called the New World since Columbus, however, Columbus did not come here first. There had already been a "New England Charter" and a colony established twenty years before he arrived. In America in the east, we have the area of NEW ENGLAND, where the first colonies were established. The eventual American Revolution wasn't actually a real revolution. The Founding Fathers (Masons), did not go to war with their parents, the monarchy of England. There are many prominent American Presidents who are related to strong European bloodlines and great wealth. When the YORK Rite Masons of York, England, came over here, they settled on the East coast and declared it NEW YORK. Then they went to work to build the "Empire State". In New York sits the Statue of "LIBERTY", given to us by FRANCE, holding up the Masonic torch of ENLIGHTENMENT. The highest degrees of Freemasonry are the 32nd and 33rd degree.

On the back of the dollar bill, on the Great Seal of the U. S. , there are 32 feathers on the right wing of the eagle and 33 on the left. Underneath the pyramid, the Latin term "Novus Ordo Seclorum" means "New World Order". It has appeared on the dollar bill since 1933.

............


All of the founding fathers of this nation were Masons as well as almost all of the presidents. The building of early American colonies as well as the American Revolution would not have been possible if it were not for a very special plant. The Cannabis / Hemp plant was used throughout the world since the beginning of time for just about everything that mankind needed. Paper made from hemp was used for books, bibles, maps, and money. You can produce 4 times as much paper from an acre of hemp as you can from an acre of trees at 1/4 the cost, 1/5 the pollution, it is 10 times stronger and lasts up to 1000 years instead of only 50. And it can be recycled 4 times as many times as paper from wood pulp. The Constitution was printed on hemp paper as well as the first 3 drafts of the Declaration of Independence. Even great sailing ships like the U.S.S. Constitution were made primarily out of hemp. Hemp is the STRONGEST natural fiber on the planet. Hemp is 26 times stronger than cotton and 10 times longer lasting. The first Levi jeans were made out of hemp as well as all of the soldier's clothes for the Revolutionary War. It requires no chemicals to grow, has very few natural enemies, and grows in the widest variety of climates of any weed or plant. It is also the FASTEST GROWING plant on the planet, growing 4 times faster than corn. The seeds from the hemp plant provide the highest source of complete vegetable protein of any food source on earth. Even higher than soybeans. It has also been re-realized lately that the hemp seed is the highest source of Essential Fatty Acids in the world. ESSENTIAL, meaning :NECESSARY FOR LIFE, Fatty Acids are necessary for us and beneficial for cleaning the cholesterol out of the arteries naturally. All oils in the supermarket are bad since they are placed in clear plastic containers and exposed to direct sunlight. They become as bad as saturated fats, and end up CAUSING cholesterol buildup, leading to heart attacks, etc. Hemp seed oil can even be used as a machine-grade lubricant for engines and other machines replacing petroleum oil from the ground.
Henry Ford built his Ford Model-T using hemp to line the side panels. The impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel alone. This would eliminate many vehicular deaths today. The Model-T was also designed to run on hemp fuel which Henry Ford grew. This was displayed in Popular Mechanics in Feb. of 1938. Concentrated extracts of Cannabis from the flowers were the 2nd most used medicines in America for 150 years for over 100 separate medical illnesses. It is probably the best natural medicine for Glaucoma, stress, and controlling nausea, and works very well for arthritis , asthma, and epilepsy. It is estimated that Hemp would have at least 50,000 commercial uses if it were legal in America today.
The reason that Hemp is illegal in America today is because the main families in America (Masons), the Harrimans and Rockefellers (Standard Oil), the Whitneys (Eli Whitney-Cotton Gin), Dupont (Chemicals in wood pulp processing and cotton pesticides), and Hearst (Newspapers, Media) find it more profitable to sell us unnecessary chemicals, unneeded dug-up petroleum oil, immune system destroying pharmaceuticals, and axed up trees cut into real thin slices, all at over-inflated prices and at the expense of our health and living environment. For these companies, the real problem is that one cannot patent a natural plant. Almost everything produced in America by large corporations is exported for sale on the world markets. The total value of oil, petrochemicals, and pharmaceutical sales totals hundreds of billions of dollars. However, with the availability of over 50,000 new products and the necessity to manufacture them, America would be a much richer nation if the farmers and the average citizen were allowed to grow this valuable crop.

read more history here:

http://theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/secret_american_history.htm
 
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Wiggs Dannyboy

Last Laugh Foundation
ICMag Donor
Veteran

That's a long-ass documentary! I went and found a bit more description to help decide if you want to invest the time. Seems to me like it is worth it...

A gripping, deeply informative account of the plunder, hypocrisy, and mass violence of plutocracy and empire; insightful, historically grounded and highly relevant to the events of today.

This documentary is about the foreign policy of the United States. It demonstrates the importance of the political economy, the Mafia principle, propaganda, ideology, violence and force.

It documents and explains how the policy is based on the interest of major corporations and a tiny elite to increase profits and the United States governments own interests in maintaining and expanding it’s imperialistic influence.

Inside the United States this has been made possible with a propaganda of fear for the horrible enemies like the Soviet Union, Communists and so on and a love for “free markets”, “democracy”, “freedom” and so on.

----------------------------------------------------------------


This is a quite lengthy (three parts totally nearly 4½ hours) but well worthwhile look at just how we got to our present predicament. Features Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn and numerous other respected voices.

EDIT: I'm watching the doc right now, but am realizing that there is no way I'm going to make it through the 4.5 hours in one sitting. So, in order to make viewing this a bit easier and in parts, I'm going to paste links to it divided into 3 separate parts:

The Power Principle - I:

[youtubeif]2q0Wdk7ek7Q[/youtubeif]

The Power Principle - II:

[youtubeif]b1J9ybfRWSk[/youtubeif]

The Power Principle - III:

[youtubeif]9qJE_rPvEgE[/youtubeif]


.
 
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Every Conspiracy has some basis in truth.

Robert Downey Jr had a great line in sherlock Holmes concerning the professor and his involvement in starting a world war. Something to the effect that moriarty was to smart to leave evidence of his involvement in the crime.

Just keep in mind that the ones doing the conspiracy plotting are pros at it and have been for some time. False flag operations, disinformation and the like have been studied and perfected a long time ago to keep the general public in the dark about the true nature of events and to spin the news the way they want it to be remembered.
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
the cia puts out misinformation

this is why conspiracies theories all have some twisted part to them

this is how it works

someone puts out sensitive information about the "illuminati" and that information is either suppressed if that fails it is reworked and relayed with a twist or in such a light that it becomes unbelievable

there is a reason the cia enlists on college campuses

there is a reason the senate committee asked them if they had operatives in major news outlets

it is about the scope of control they possess, they cannot control all of mankind but if they control the information we access they control our perception

if they control enough they won

right now they are winning

they are raping us and when someone blows the whistle they make the story so fantastic and get "experts" to refute common arguments with seeming logical anecdotal arguments that average intellects and educations accept at face value

even the scientific community is biased by it, that is how powerful misinformation is

logic can be turned into an algebraic equation and you can solve and proof algebraic equations and this is were deceit can be exposed by just about everyone

for some of us it is as simple as intuition

lets take the great Illuminati critics who expose them and sensationalize them

ever think that the real critics were long removed and the truths that were exposed worked into over the top accounts of the fantastic to keep people from the acting on the validity of the exposed truths in the first place?

would more people take the banking cabal information more seriously if it didn't lead to theories of reptilian overlords?

do you think the psychology of the common man is used against him like a 3 card monty game to keep him common?

what a great way to disenfranchise the masses but to feed them information DESIGNED to polarize them at social economic levels

attack the poor one way attack the educated another and as long as they are polarized they remain ineffectual at changing the existing establishment
 
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Hydrosun

I love my life
Veteran
Couldn't the same be said about big business? I understand they aren't exactly the same, but it seems that when people start talking about getting fucked over, it's always about the government, and never about big business. Hell, really any business has the potential to screw it's customers, and be greedy and all that, but big business is where the real nasty stuff happens.

Which big business actions do you complain about? The only real problems I have with businesses are supported by the government (monopolies, subsidies, and bailouts). If Croks or Berkenstocks get priced at $1K a pair and only last two weeks, I could care less as I don't like, need, or use those products. If MacDonalds wants to charge $20 per big mac, I could care less as I don't like, need, or use that product.

What problems do you have with big business that are not connected to government protections?

:joint:
 

Wiggs Dannyboy

Last Laugh Foundation
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Regarding the documentary that Weird posted earlier...it's real long, and it's good, but is hard to watch in one sitting. So, I'm posting it broken up into 3 parts to make it easier to watch in parts and not lose your place (I did this some posts back as well, but am doing it again here in case you don't see the previous one)

This is a quite lengthy (three parts totally nearly 4½ hours) but well worthwhile look at just how we got to our present predicament. Features Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn and numerous other respected voices.


The Power Principle - I:

[youtubeif]2q0Wdk7ek7Q[/youtubeif]

The Power Principle - II:

[youtubeif]b1J9ybfRWSk[/youtubeif]

The Power Principle - III:

[youtubeif]9qJE_rPvEgE[/youtubeif].
 

Storm Shadow

Well-known member
Veteran
America took a turn for the worst since 1948.. Foreign Agents of an apartheid Government sent their People to come claim our Senate and Congress ...

In Putin I trust 4 Life :)
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
Well I'm not going to take the time to try to argue every point in the list you posted so I'll just argue one significant one. You can go and google 9/11 pentagon wreckage right now and clearly see numberous pieces of wreckage that match the type of plane said to have crashed into it. I find it extremely difficult to believe that the Pentagon fired a cruise missle at itself and then ran out and scattered a bunch of appropriate wreckage around to make it believable without anyone noticing.

Since there is at least one assertion in this list of "proof" that is questionable I have to assume all of it is questionable. I'm not saying the official version is rock solid but in lieu of solid evidence to the contrary I have to say it can't be so readily dismissed. At the time I was living less then an hours drive away and have lived in that region for most of my life. If something shady was going on and they fired a missile at it, someone would have been noticed. The Pentagon sits just off a major beltway (295) that at that time of day is usually so backed up with rush hour traffic it's moving at a snail's pace. If a missile was fired or at the very least it wasn't a jet airliner that crashed into it then 100's would have witnessed that and come forward. Trust me, the people in the area are so used to the games politicians play that few if any would keep something like that a secret out of a sense of national pride and/or trust in the government.

do you have a link to the pentagon wreckage pic you mention in this post? the only pics i saw of the pentagon wreck were small pieces and something that looked like a small single turbine engine, no plane seats, no luggage laying around, no fuselage, no wings no, no tail, no giant rolls engines, basically no nothing, lol. even first reporters on the scene were astounded at the pristine condition of the lawn and the lack of normal plane crash debris, so i'm very interested to see your pics with the real recognizable pieces of the plane wreck. cause they actually found no such plane rests at any of those 4 events, again we made history that day. not only did the buildings get disintegrated to dust, but the planes including the cast iron indestructible engines weighing many tons got disintegrated as well.
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
what I saw in those photos would indicate missle debris only. no remains, no seats, no luggage, no landing gear or engines, actually no remains of the aluminum body melted onto the floor...must have just vaporized.

like the steel skeletons of wtc 1, 2, & 7.

money is worse than crack, and power is worse than money.

$17T and counting pissed into that hole, making bank off the destruction of those buildings while they were occupied was classic problem/reaction/solution...as was the convenient solution to the pentagons missing funds.

leaked classified document that was hidden for 25 years. Russia had fulfilled all requirements of non aggression, and yet the wars continue. no one has capabilities like the USA. market shares at the point of a gun, and vig to the banks.

NSC 68: United States Objectives and Programs for National Security


CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
Conclusions
The foregoing analysis indicates that the probable fission bomb capability and possible thermonuclear bomb capability of the Soviet Union have greatly intensified the Soviet threat to the security of the United States. This threat is of the same character as that described in NSC 20/4 (approved by the President on November 24, 1948) but is more immediate than had previously been estimated. In particular, the United States now faces the contingency that within the next four or five years the Soviet Union will possess the military capability of delivering a surprise atomic attack of such weight that the United States must have substantially increased general air, ground, and sea strength, atomic capabilities, and air and civilian defenses to deter war and to provide reasonable assurance, in the event of war, that it could survive the initial blow and go on to the eventual attainment of its objectives. In return, this contingency requires the intensification of our efforts in the fields of intelligence and research and development.
Allowing for the immediacy of the danger, the following statement of Soviet threats, contained in NSC 20/4, remains valid:
14. The gravest threat to the security of the United States within the foreseeable future stems from the hostile designs and formidable power of the USSR, and from the nature of the Soviet system.
15. The political, economic, and psychological warfare which the USSR is now waging has dangerous potentialities for weakening the relative world position of the United States and disrupting its traditional institutions by means short of war, unless sufficient resistance is encountered in the policies of this and other non-communist countries.
16. The risk of war with the USSR is sufficient to warrant, in common prudence, timely and adequate preparation by the United States.
a. Even though present estimates indicate that the Soviet leaders probably do not intend deliberate armed action involving the United States at this time, the possibility of such deliberate resort to war cannot be ruled out.
b. Now and for the foreseeable future there is a continuing danger that war will arise either through Soviet miscalculation of the determination of the United States to use all the means at its command to safeguard its security, through Soviet misinterpretation of our intentions, or through U.S. miscalculation of Soviet reactions to measures which we might take.
17. Soviet domination of the potential power of Eurasia, whether achieved by armed aggression or by political and subversive means, would be strategically and politically unacceptable to the United States.
18. The capability of the United States either in peace or in the event of war to cope with threats to its security or to gain its objectives would be severely weakened by internal development, important among which are:
a. Serious espionage, subversion and sabotage, particularly by concerted and well-directed communist activity.
b. Prolonged or exaggerated economic instability.
c. Internal political and social disunity.
d. Inadequate or excessive armament or foreign aid expenditures.
e. An excessive or wasteful usage of our resources in time of peace.
f. Lessening of U.S. prestige and influence through vacillation of appeasement or lack of skill and imagination in the conduct of its foreign policy or by shirking world responsibilities.
g. Development of a false sense of security through a deceptive change in Soviet tactics.
Although such developments as those indicated in paragraph 18 above would severely weaken the capability of the United States and its allies to cope with the Soviet threat to their security, considerable progress has been made since 1948 in laying the foundation upon which adequate strength can now be rapidly built.
The analysis also confirms that our objectives with respect to the Soviet Union, in time of peace as well as in time of war, as stated in NSC 20/4 (para. 19), are still valid, as are the aims and measures stated therein (paras. 20 and 21). Our current security programs and strategic plans are based upon these objectives, aims, and measures:
19.
a. To reduce the power and influence of the USSR to limits which no longer constitute a threat to the peace, national independence, and stability of the world family of nations.
b. To bring about a basic change in the conduct of international relations by the government in power in Russia, to conform with the purposes and principles set forth in the UN Charter.
In pursuing these objectives, due care must be taken to avoid permanently impairing our economy and the fundamental values and institutions inherent in our way of life.
20. We should endeavor to achieve our general objectives by methods short of war through the pursuit of the following aims:
a. To encourage and promote the gradual retraction of undue Russian power and influence from the present perimeter areas around traditional Russian boundaries and the emergence of the satellite countries as entities independent of the USSR.
b. To encourage the development among the Russian peoples of attitudes which may help to modify current Soviet behavior and permit a revival of the national life of groups evidencing the ability and determination to achieve and maintain national independence.
c. To eradicate the myth by which people remote from Soviet military influence are held in a position of subservience to Moscow and to cause the world at large to see and understand the true nature of the USSR and the Soviet-directed world communist party, and to adopt a logical and realistic attitude toward them.
d. To create situations which will compel the Soviet Government to recognize the practical undesirability of acting on the basis of its present concepts and the necessity of behaving in accordance with precepts of international conduct, as set forth in the purposes and principles of the UN Charter.
21. Attainment of these aims requires that the United States:
a. Develop a level of military readiness which can be maintained as long as necessary as a deterrent to Soviet aggression, as indispensable support to our political attitude toward the USSR, as a source of encouragement to nations resisting Soviet political aggression, and as an adequate basis for immediate military commitments and for rapid mobilization should war prove unavoidable.
b. Assure the internal security of the United States against dangers of sabotage, subversion, and espionage.
c. Maximize our economic potential, including the strengthening of our peacetime economy and the establishment of essential reserves readily available in the event of war.
d. Strengthen the orientation toward the United States of the non-Soviet nations; and help such of those nations as are able and willing to make an important contribution to U.S. security, to increase their economic and political stability and their military capability.
e. Place the maximum strain on the Soviet structure of power and particularly on the relationships between Moscow and the satellite countries.
f. Keep the U.S. public fully informed and cognizant of the threats to our national security so that it will be prepared to support the measures which we must accordingly adopt.
In the light of present and prospective Soviet atomic capabilities, the action which can be taken under present programs and plans, however, becomes dangerously inadequate, in both timing and scope, to accomplish the rapid progress toward the attainment of the United States political, economic, and military objectives which is now imperative.
A continuation of present trends would result in a serious decline in the strength of the free world relative to the Soviet Union and its satellites. This unfavorable trend arises from the inadequacy of current programs and plans rather than from any error in our objectives and aims. These trends lead in the direction of isolation, not by deliberate decision but by lack of the necessary basis for a vigorous initiative in the conflict with the Soviet Union.
Our position as the center of power in the free world places a heavy responsibility upon the United States for leadership. We must organize and enlist the energies and resources of the free world in a positive program for peace which will frustrate the Kremlin design for world domination by creating a situation in the free world to which the Kremlin will be compelled to adjust. Without such a cooperative effort, led by the United States, we will have to make gradual withdrawals under pressure until we discover one day that we have sacrificed positions of vital interest.
It is imperative that this trend be reversed by a much more rapid and concerted build-up of the actual strength of both the United States and the other nations of the free world. The analysis shows that this will be costly and will involve significant domestic financial and economic adjustments.
The execution of such a build-up, however, requires that the United States have an affirmative program beyond the solely defensive one of countering the threat posed by the Soviet Union. This program must light the path to peace and order among nations in a system based on freedom and justice, as contemplated in the Charter of the United Nations. Further, it must envisage the political and economic measures with which and the military shield behind which the free world can work to frustrate the Kremlin design by the strategy of the cold war; for every consideration of devotion to our fundamental values and to our national security demands that we achieve our objectives by the strategy of the cold war, building up our military strength in order that it may not have to be used. The only sure victory lies in the frustration of the Kremlin design by the steady development of the moral and material strength of the free world and its projection into the Soviet world in such a way as to bring about an internal change in the Soviet system. Such a positive program--harmonious with our fundamental national purpose and our objectives--is necessary if we are to regain and retain the initiative and to win and hold the necessary popular support and cooperation in the United States and the rest of the free world.
This program should include a plan for negotiation with the Soviet Union, developed and agreed with our allies and which is consonant with our objectives. The United States and its allies, particularly the United Kingdom and France, should always be ready to negotiate with the Soviet Union on terms consistent with our objectives. The present world situation, however, is one which militates against successful negotiations with the Kremlin--for the terms of agreements on important pending issues would reflect present realities and would therefore be unacceptable, if not disastrous, to the United States and the rest of the free world. After a decision and a start on building up the strength of the free world has been made, it might then be desirable for the United States to take an initiative in seeking negotiations in the hope that it might facilitate the process of accommodation by the Kremlin to the new situation. Failing that, the unwillingness of the Kremlin to accept equitable terms or its bad faith in observing them would assist in consolidating popular opinion in the free world in support of the measures necessary to sustain the build-up.
In summary, we must, by means of a rapid and sustained build-up of the political, economic, and military strength of the free world, and by means of an affirmative program intended to wrest the initiative from the Soviet Union, confront it with convincing evidence of the determination and ability of the free world to frustrate the Kremlin design of a world dominated by its will. Such evidence is the only means short of war which eventually may force the Kremlin to abandon its present course of action and to negotiate acceptable agreements on issues of major importance.
The whole success of the proposed program hangs ultimately on recognition by this Government, the American people, and all free peoples, that the cold war is in fact a real war in which the survival of the free world is at stake. Essential prerequisites to success are consultations with Congressional leaders designed to make the program the object of non-partisan legislative support, and a presentation to the public of a full explanation of the facts and implications of the present international situation. The prosecution of the program will require of us all the ingenuity, sacrifice, and unity demanded by the vital importance of the issue and the tenacity to persevere until our national objectives have been attained.
Recommendations
That the President:
a. Approve the foregoing Conclusions.
b. Direct the National Security Council, under the continuing direction of the President, and with the participation of other Departments and Agencies as appropriate, to coordinate and insure the implementation of the Conclusions herein on an urgent and continuing basis for as long as necessary to achieve our objectives. For this purpose, representatives of the member Departments and Agencies, the Joint Chiefs of Staff or their deputies, and other Departments and Agencies as required should be constituted as a revised and strengthened staff organization under the National Security Council to develop coordinated programs for consideration by the National Security Council.
NOTES
1. Marshal Tito, the Communist leader of Yugoslavia, broke away from the Soviet bloc in 1948.



2. The Secretary of State listed seven areas in which the Soviet Union could modify its behavior in such a way as to permit co-existence in reasonable security. These were:
  1. Treaties of peace with Austria, Germany, Japan and relaxation of pressures in the Far East;
  2. Withdrawal of Soviet forces and influence from satellite area;
  3. Cooperation in the United Nations;
  4. Control of atomic energy and of conventional armaments;
  5. Abandonment of indirect aggression;
  6. Proper treatment of official representatives of the U.S.;
  7. Increased access to the Soviet Union of persons and ideas from other countries. [Footnote in the source text. For the text of the address delivered by Secretary Acheson at the University of California, Berkeley, on March 16, 1950, concerning United States--Soviet relations, see Department of State Bulletin, March 27, 1950, pp. 473-478.]
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nsc-hst/nsc-68-cr.htm
 
Last edited:

Max Headroom

Well-known member
Veteran
Regarding the documentary that Weird posted earlier...it's real long, and it's good, but is hard to watch in one sitting. So, I'm posting it broken up into 3 parts to make it easier to watch in parts and not lose your place (I did this some posts back as well, but am doing it again here in case you don't see the previous one)

This is a quite lengthy (three parts totally nearly 4½ hours) but well worthwhile look at just how we got to our present predicament. Features Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn and numerous other respected voices.

yes, this doc is indeed excellent! don't miss the others this guy has put out, they are also very good!
http://metanoia-films.org/films/
(esp. human resources, psywar, lifting the veil and counter intelligence)
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
25 Stats That Prove That The American Dream Is Being Systematically Destroyed

By Michael Snyder, on October 24th, 2013

The Middle Class Is Being Systematically Wiped Out Of Existence In AmericaThe 25 statistics that you are about to read are solid proof that the middle class in America is being systematically wiped out. Once upon a time, the United States had the largest and most prosperous middle class in the history of the world. It seemed like almost everyone owned a home, had a couple of nice vehicles and could provide a very comfortable lifestyle for their families. Sadly, that has all changed. In America today, prices are rising at a very brisk pace but incomes are not. There aren’t nearly enough jobs for everyone anymore, and most of the jobs that are being “created” are jobs that pay very little. The largest employer in America is Wal-Mart, and the second largest employer is actually a temp agency (Kelly Services). In a desperate attempt to make ends meet, millions of American families endlessly pile up more debt, and millions of other American families find themselves forced to turn to the government for help. At this point, more than 49 percent of all Americans receive benefits from the federal government each month. The percentage of Americans that cannot financially take care of themselves is rising every single year, and our independence is being whittled away as we become increasingly dependent on the government. Unfortunately, our politicians continue to stand aside and do nothing as our jobs are shipped overseas, inflation steals our purchasing power and the middle class continues to shrink. The following are 25 stats that prove that the American Dream is being systematically destroyed…

1. According to the most recent numbers from the U.S. Census Bureau, 49.2 percent of all Americans are receiving benefits from at least one government program.

2. The U.S. government has spent an astounding 3.7 trillion dollars on welfare programs over the past five years.

3. An increasing number of employers are encouraging their low wage employees to supplement their wages by going on government welfare programs. For example, McDonald’s workers that need help making ends meet are being instructed to go on food stamps…


McDonald’s workers who are unable to pay their bills or stay above the poverty line should find help from food pantries or enlist in government benefit programs instead of seeking higher wages, according to a company resource line meant to help employees.

Nancy Salgado has worked for the fast-food corporation for over 10 years yet still earns $8.25 an hour, barely more than the $7.25 federal minimum wage. With help from the worker’s rights group Low Pay Is Not Ok, she phoned the company’s employee hotline, known as McResource, attempting to find some answers on how to improve her situation.

A recording of the call was made available to CNN, which reported that Salgado asked the helpline operator multiple questions regarding how McDonalds would help her pay her heating bill, buy groceries, and whether she could afford to help pay for her sister’s medical treatment.

Despite never asking how much money Salgado earned per hour or asking how many hours a week she worked, the McDonalds representative said she “definitely should be able to qualify for both food stamps and heating assistance.”

4. Total consumer credit has risen by a whopping 22 percent over the past three years.

5. Student loans are up by an astounding 61 percent over the past three years.

6. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, median household income in the United States has fallen for five years in a row.

7. Right now the middle class is taking home a smaller share of the overall income pie than has ever been recorded before.

8. Ordinary Americans are being priced out of the housing market. Today, nearly half of all home purchases are all-cash deals.

9. The homeownership rate in the United States is now at the lowest level it has been in nearly 18 years.

10. The gap between the rich and the poor in the United States is at an all-time record high.

11. U.S. families that have a head of household that is under the age of 30 have a poverty rate of 37 percent.

12. Every single day, thousands of Americans are receiving letters in the mail informing them that their old health insurance policies have been canceled. According to a recent Kaiser Health News article, some companies have already sent out hundreds of thousands of cancellation notices…


Florida Blue, for example, is terminating about 300,000 policies, about 80 percent of its individual policies in the state. Kaiser Permanente in California has sent notices to 160,000 people – about half of its individual business in the state. Insurer Highmark in Pittsburgh is dropping about 20 percent of its individual market customers, while Independence Blue Cross, the major insurer in Philadelphia, is dropping about 45 percent.

13. Those that are losing their current health insurance policies will have to replace them with new policies that are often much more expensive. According to health policy expert Bob Laszewski, 16 million people could ultimately have their health insurance policies canceled because of Obamacare…


The U.S. individual health insurance market currently totals about 19 million people. Because the Obama administration’s regulations on grandfathering existing plans were so stringent about 85% of those, 16 million, are not grandfathered and must comply with Obamacare at their next renewal. The rules are very complex. For example, if you had an individual plan in March of 2010 when the law was passed and you only increased the deductible from $1,000 to $1,500 in the years since, your plan has lost its grandfather status and it will no longer be available to you when it would have renewed in 2014.

These 16 million people are now receiving letters from their carriers saying they are losing their current coverage and must re-enroll in order to avoid a break in coverage and comply with the new health law’s benefit mandates––the vast majority by January 1. Most of these will be seeing some pretty big rate increases.

14. Back in 1999, 64.1 percent of all Americans were covered by employment-based health insurance. Today, only 54.9 percent of all Americans are covered by employment-based health insurance.

15. More Americans than ever find themselves forced to turn to the government for help with health care. At this point, 82.4 million Americans live in a home where at least one person is enrolled in the Medicaid program.

16. The U.S. labor force participation rate is at a 35 year low.

17. Only 47 percent of all adults in America have a full-time job at this point.

18. It is hard to believe, but in America today one out of every ten jobs is now filled by a temp agency.

19. Approximately one out of every four part-time workers in America is living below the poverty line.

20. After accounting for inflation, right now 40 percent of all U.S. workers are making less than what a full-time minimum wage worker made back in 1968.

21. Today, the United States actually has a higher percentage of workers doing low wage work than any other major industrialized nation does.

22. At this point, almost half of all public school students in America come from low income homes.

23. The number of Americans on food stamps has grown from 17 million in the year 2000 to more than 47 million today.

24. Right now, one out of every five households in the United States is on food stamps.

25. An increasing number of Americans do not even believe that they have a pleasant retirement to look forward to. One recent survey found that the percentage of middle class Americans that “plan to work until they die” is now higher than ever.

http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...rican-dream-is-being-systematically-destroyed


....the banks should be bailing us out.:cry:
 

Skinny Leaf

Well-known member
Veteran
....the banks should be bailing us out.:cry:


And this is why I do not have a bank account. Where was it, Crete I believe, that the government shut the banks down and threatened to take everyone's savings. It's only a matter of time before it happens in the U.S.. More people on government assistance than there are taxpayers equals looming disaster.


Pitchforks and Torches.

Wrap your pipes.
 
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