B
BredForMeds
there wouldn't be so many conspiracies if they would release the info.. so yes I can say no im not a conspiracy theorist because the theories I believe in have been proven to be right over the last 8 years. lol
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are you a "conspiracy theorist"?
- Thread starter trichrider
- Start date
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The problem with what you are saying here is it assumes that anyone saying a conspiracy theorist is "mentally ill" then they must believe the governments version of things. Now me personally I wouldn't say "mentally ill" but rather I would say some conspiracy theorists are crazy due to how far fetched their beliefs are. For example if someone said that the government definitely fired a cruise missile at the Pentagon simply because they felt the damages didn't look the way they think it should, I would say they were likely crazy. Not because I believe the government's version of events but because their version is based on opinion and speculation rather then fact and evidence.
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Eureka Springs Organics
Landing gear were at the scene. That does not disprove anything.
The hole in the pentagon was a circle. If there were wings this would not be the case.
The Government has the proof of what hit the building. They stole every bit of footage, and is not "allowing" us to see it.
If it was the truth why hide the footage?
There is so much information on the Pentagon, and how staged it was that you could get the "proof" to change what you "believe."
Regardless, Everyone just wants to watch Dancing with the stars, the Super Bowl, etc., bury their heads in the sand, and live out their final years in ignorant bliss.
It would be easier to live your life that way.
Fuck easy though.
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Eureka Springs Organics
To make your statement correct you would need to put quotes around "fact", and "evidence."
Until it is recognized that both of those words are subjective there can not be a worth while conversation.
nothing about a missile has been said. i have seen the pics from right after the impact and the lawn is very clean, no drag marks and only a very few small pieces are laying around, also only a small hole is visible before the secondary collaps occurs. but most importantly where are the two giant rolls Royce engines of the plane? they are cast iron and undistructable, according to the official flight path and angle of impact one of the engines should have dug a trench into the foundation. no such damage can be seen, also the tail section should have smashed windows above the hole made by the body, but those windows can be seen to be intact in the pics before the secondary collaps occurs. then there are the witness accounts of the flight path that totally contradict the official version, including sworn statements by 2 separate police officers as well as from an aviation guy. watch the second to last youtube clip if you want to take a look at the pentagon case, no one is saying what actually happened, just what didn't.
Actually...
was said just 5 posts before yours that I commented on.
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Eureka Springs Organics
Facts and evidence are not subjective, only their weight or value is subjective. People who want to push forth a different version then what is generally accepted and supported by facts and evidence usually put very little weight or value on facts and evidence. Ironically if the facts and evidence were to support what they believe they would be the first to point out they had facts and evidence supporting their views.
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Eureka Springs Organics
You only need to study science to prove that they are indeed subjective.
What we considered fact 1,000 years ago is now not. What we considered fact even a couple of hundred years ago is not.
Fact is completely subjective. The "truth" changes every single day.
I haven't made any such assumption.
Mental illness is rare.
There are far, far more so-called "conspiracy theorists" out there than people who are truly mentally ill.
Therefore those who accuse "conspiracy theorists" as a whole of being "mentally ill" are, statistically speaking, almost always wrong.
What's the difference between "mentally ill" and "crazy"?
And why is a person "crazy" just because they believe something that is "obviously" wrong?
Most Americans believe a hell of a lot of things that are clearly, obviously wrong. Does that make most Americans "crazy"? Or simply misled?
And I would say they are simply incorrect, or misinformed, and using faulty logic.
Why can't a person just be "wrong"? Why do they also have to be "crazy" or "mentally ill"?
What does it matter if a missile or a plane hit the Pentagon? Either way, it's irrelevant. The government is clearly behind 9/11. The actual means they used to perpetrate it is irrelevant. There is far, FAR more obvious holes in the government story than this irrelevant B.S. It's a red herring.
How do you determine the difference between "opinion and speculation" and "fact and evidence"? Especially in a society that is so full of lies that the entire "civilization" is built upon them? When almost every single thing that most people around you believe is literally a lie, or based upon lies, then why is it a surprise when many people are misled? Why is it a surprise that some people ("conspiracy theorists") refuse to believe the lies, and go searching for it elsewhere? Why is it a surprise when some of these people are misled into believing other lies?
There's a reason why lying was considered one of the seven deadly sins. Deceit destroys societies, slowly, insidiously.
How can you blame people for believing in aliens and lizard people and all this other nonsense, when these people are a) not particularly bright to begin with, but are smart enough to realize that b) the government and "leaders" of society are lying to them every single day?
These people go in search of truth, and it's hit or miss. They are sometimes led astray. Sometimes they get lost in the sea of lies and end up believing some nonsense. That doesn't make them "crazy" or "mentally ill." They are just lost souls in need of real leadership, and a real society that they can believe in, not one that lies to them at every turn.
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Eureka Springs Organics
I would like to point out that you said "generally accepted." That is nothing more than a collective opinion. That is not the "truth."
Laws are the best example of "collective opinions."
Nothing in life is static, and it can all change in the blink of an eye.
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Eureka Springs Organics
Sure they do. Each and every human being is a puzzle piece. Humanity would not be what humanity is, if there weren't numerous humans working as a team to put together a larger puzzle. The majority of humans are not smart enough on their own to fully understand the truth. We all possess pieces of the puzzle, and we have to work together to solve it. It is the function of certain persons to put those pieces together and come up with a larger understanding, that is propagated to others to lead them in the direction of truth. That is called leadership. Right now we have a situation where the "leaders" are propagating lies. They are "leading" the country and our society towards destruction.
a few more points to consider about that unique day:
24 Hard Facts About 9/11 That Cannot Be Debunked
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/01/18/24-hard-facts-about-911-that-cannot-be-debunked/
9/11 has been one of the biggest events in recent history that sparked a mass awakening across the world. There has been much debate as to how it happened, who is responsible and why. To this day about 1/3 of americans do not believe the official story. In other areas of the world as much as 90% of the country does not believe the official story.
Here is a list of 24 facts that cannot be debunked about 9/11.
1) Nano Thermite was found in the dust at Ground Zero. Peer reviewed in the Bentham Open Chemical Physics Journal. ‘Niels Harrit’, ‘Thermite Bentham’, “The great thermate debate” Jon Cole, ‘Iron rich spheres’ Steven Jones, ‘Limited Metallurgical Examination (FEMA C-13, Appendix C-6)’. ‘Nano Tubes’
2) 1700+ Engineers and Architects support a real independent 9/11 investigation. Richard Gage, Founder. ‘Explosive Evidence’, ‘Blueprint for Truth’, ‘AE911′, ‘Toronto Hearings’, ‘Kevin Ryan’.
3) The total collapse of WTC 7 in 6.5 seconds at free fall acceleration (NIST admits 2.25 seconds). Larry Silverstein used the term “Pull it”. Steel framed high rise buildings have NEVER totally collapsed from fire or structural damage. Builidng 7 was not hit by a plane. ‘Building 7′, ‘WTC 7′.
4) Dick Cheney was in command of NORAD on 9/11 while running war games. ‘Stand down order’. “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary?”. Norman Minetta testimony. “Gave order to shootdown Flight 93.”, ‘NORAD Drills’.
5) 6 out of the 10 Commissioners believe the 9/11 Commission report was “Setup to fail” Co-Chairs Hamilton and Kean, “It was a 30 year conspiracy”, “The whitehouse has played cover up”, ‘Max Cleland resigned’, ‘John Farmer’.
6) FBI confiscated 84/85 Videos from the Pentagon. ‘Moussaoui trial’ revealed these videos. Released Pentagon Security Camera (FOIA) does not show a 757 and is clearly Missing a frame. ‘Sheraton Hotel’, “Double tree’, ‘Citgo”.
7) Osama Bin Laden was NOT wanted by the FBI for the 9/11 attacks. “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.” CIA created, trained and funded “Al Qaeda/Taliban” during the Mujahideen. OBL was a CIA asset named ‘Tim Osman’. OBL Reported dead in Dec 2001 (FOX).
8)100′s of Firefighters and witness testimony to BOMBS/EXPLOSIONS ignored by the 9/11 Commission Report. 9/11 Commission Report bars 503 1st responder eyewitnesses. “Explosions in the lobby and sub levels”, ‘Firefighter explosions’, ‘Barry Jennings’, ‘William Rodriguez’.
9) 100′s of firefighters and witness testimony to MOLTEN METAL ignored by the Commission report. “Like you’re in a foundry”, “NIST’s John Gross denies the existence of Molten Metal”, ‘Swiss Cheese’, “As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running.” Leslie Robertson’.
10) ’5 Dancing Israeli’s’ arrested in ‘Mossad Truck Bombs’ on 9/11 that stated “We were there to document the event.” ‘Urban Moving Systems’ front company, ‘Dominic Suter’. “$498,750 Business loan (June 2001)”. “Officer DeCarlo’, ‘Art Students’, ‘Israeli Spying’.
11) On September 10th, 2001. Rumsfeld reported $2.3 TRILLION missing from the Pentagon. ‘Dov Zakheim’ Pentagon Comptroller. Former VP of ‘Systems Planning Corporation’ (Flight Termination System). Signatore of PNAC document.
12) 220+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials question the official story. ’9/11 Whistleblowers’, ‘Patriots for 9/11′. ‘Robert Bowman’, ‘Sibel Edmonds’, ‘Albert Stubblebine’, ‘Wesley Clark’, ‘Mark Dayton’, ‘Alan Sabrosky’, ‘Cyntha McKinney’, ‘Jesse Ventura’, ‘Kurt Sonnenfeld’. “patriotsquestion911.com”
13) Towers were built to withstand a Boeing jet(s). “I designed it for a 707 to hit it”, Leslie Robertson, WTC structural engineer. “Could probably sustain multiple impacts of jetliners”, “like a pencil puncturing screen netting” Frank De Martini, deceased Manager of WTC Construction & Project Management. “As far as a plane knocking a building over, that would not happen.” Charlie Thornton, Structural Engineer.
14) History of American False Flag attacks. ‘USS Liberty’, ‘Gulf of Tonkin’, ‘Operation Northwoods’, ‘OKC Bombing (Murrah Building)’, ’1993 WTC attacks’. ‘Patrick Clawson’. Project for the New American Century (PNAC) needed “a New Pearl Harbor”, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”. 9/11 Achieved those goals.
15) BBC correspondent Jane Standley reported the collapse of WTC 7 (Soloman Brothers building) 20 minutes before it happened. CNN/FOX/MSNBC also had early reports. ‘BBC wtc 7′, ‘Jane Standley’, Ashleigh Banfield’.
16) “Flight 93″ debris was spread out over many miles. Cheney admits to giving the order to shootdown 93. “shot down the plane over Pennsylvania” Rumsfeld, “nothing that you could distinguish that a plane had crashed there” ‘Chris Konicki. “Not a drop of blood” Coroner Wallace Miller. “there was no plane.” Mayor Ernie Stull.
17) Bush hesitated for 441 days before starting the 911 Commission. ‘Jersey Girls’. ‘Phil Zelikow’ already wrote the outline before the commission began. Steel shipped over seas. Obstruction of justice. JFK and Pearl Harbor commissions were started within 7 days.
18) The 911 commission was given extremely limited funds. $15 million was given to investigate 9/11. (Over $60 Million was spent investigating Clintons’ affairs with Monica).
19) Bush said he watched the first plane crash into the North tower on TV before entering the classroom. “The TV was obviously on.” Was informed about the second impact while reading ‘My Pet Goat’ to the children. Remained for at least 8 more minutes while America was under “attack”.
20) The PATRIOT ACT was written before 9/11. Signed into law October 26th, 2001.
21) Marvin Bush was director of Stratasec (Securacom, ‘KuAm’) which was in charge of security of the WTC, United Airlines and Dulles International Airport. All three were breached on 9/11. ICTS was another company that provided security at the airports. ‘Wirt Walker’, ‘Ezra Harel’, ‘ICTS”, ‘WTC power downs’.
22) “Who killed John O’Neil?”. Former FBI task force agent investigating Al Qaeda/Bin Laden. Transferred by Kroll Corporation to head the security just before 9/11. John O’Neil died in the Towers. ‘Jerome Hauer’ ‘Jules Kroll’.
23) Insider trading based upon foreknowledge. ‘Put Options.’ Never identified insiders made millions. ‘United and American Airlines’ ‘Raytheon.’
24) At least 7 of the 19 listed highjackers are still alive (BBC). No video footage of 19 highjackers or passengers boarding the 4 planes. Pilots of the 4 planes never squawked the highjacking code. ‘Alive highjackers’, ‘ACARS’, ‘Pilots for 9/11 Truth’.
WTC 7 (The Smoking Gun)
http://rememberbuilding7.org/
Building 7 was a 47-story skyscraper and was part of the World Trade Center complex. Built in 1984, it would have been the tallest high-rise in 33 states in the United States. It collapsed at 5:20 pm on September 11, 2001 in 6.5 Seconds at free fall acceleration. It was not hit by an airplane and suffered minimal damage compared to other buildings much closer to the Twin Towers.
24 Hard Facts About 9/11 That Cannot Be Debunked
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/01/18/24-hard-facts-about-911-that-cannot-be-debunked/
9/11 has been one of the biggest events in recent history that sparked a mass awakening across the world. There has been much debate as to how it happened, who is responsible and why. To this day about 1/3 of americans do not believe the official story. In other areas of the world as much as 90% of the country does not believe the official story.
Here is a list of 24 facts that cannot be debunked about 9/11.
1) Nano Thermite was found in the dust at Ground Zero. Peer reviewed in the Bentham Open Chemical Physics Journal. ‘Niels Harrit’, ‘Thermite Bentham’, “The great thermate debate” Jon Cole, ‘Iron rich spheres’ Steven Jones, ‘Limited Metallurgical Examination (FEMA C-13, Appendix C-6)’. ‘Nano Tubes’
2) 1700+ Engineers and Architects support a real independent 9/11 investigation. Richard Gage, Founder. ‘Explosive Evidence’, ‘Blueprint for Truth’, ‘AE911′, ‘Toronto Hearings’, ‘Kevin Ryan’.
3) The total collapse of WTC 7 in 6.5 seconds at free fall acceleration (NIST admits 2.25 seconds). Larry Silverstein used the term “Pull it”. Steel framed high rise buildings have NEVER totally collapsed from fire or structural damage. Builidng 7 was not hit by a plane. ‘Building 7′, ‘WTC 7′.
4) Dick Cheney was in command of NORAD on 9/11 while running war games. ‘Stand down order’. “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary?”. Norman Minetta testimony. “Gave order to shootdown Flight 93.”, ‘NORAD Drills’.
5) 6 out of the 10 Commissioners believe the 9/11 Commission report was “Setup to fail” Co-Chairs Hamilton and Kean, “It was a 30 year conspiracy”, “The whitehouse has played cover up”, ‘Max Cleland resigned’, ‘John Farmer’.
6) FBI confiscated 84/85 Videos from the Pentagon. ‘Moussaoui trial’ revealed these videos. Released Pentagon Security Camera (FOIA) does not show a 757 and is clearly Missing a frame. ‘Sheraton Hotel’, “Double tree’, ‘Citgo”.
7) Osama Bin Laden was NOT wanted by the FBI for the 9/11 attacks. “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.” CIA created, trained and funded “Al Qaeda/Taliban” during the Mujahideen. OBL was a CIA asset named ‘Tim Osman’. OBL Reported dead in Dec 2001 (FOX).
8)100′s of Firefighters and witness testimony to BOMBS/EXPLOSIONS ignored by the 9/11 Commission Report. 9/11 Commission Report bars 503 1st responder eyewitnesses. “Explosions in the lobby and sub levels”, ‘Firefighter explosions’, ‘Barry Jennings’, ‘William Rodriguez’.
9) 100′s of firefighters and witness testimony to MOLTEN METAL ignored by the Commission report. “Like you’re in a foundry”, “NIST’s John Gross denies the existence of Molten Metal”, ‘Swiss Cheese’, “As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running.” Leslie Robertson’.
10) ’5 Dancing Israeli’s’ arrested in ‘Mossad Truck Bombs’ on 9/11 that stated “We were there to document the event.” ‘Urban Moving Systems’ front company, ‘Dominic Suter’. “$498,750 Business loan (June 2001)”. “Officer DeCarlo’, ‘Art Students’, ‘Israeli Spying’.
11) On September 10th, 2001. Rumsfeld reported $2.3 TRILLION missing from the Pentagon. ‘Dov Zakheim’ Pentagon Comptroller. Former VP of ‘Systems Planning Corporation’ (Flight Termination System). Signatore of PNAC document.
12) 220+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials question the official story. ’9/11 Whistleblowers’, ‘Patriots for 9/11′. ‘Robert Bowman’, ‘Sibel Edmonds’, ‘Albert Stubblebine’, ‘Wesley Clark’, ‘Mark Dayton’, ‘Alan Sabrosky’, ‘Cyntha McKinney’, ‘Jesse Ventura’, ‘Kurt Sonnenfeld’. “patriotsquestion911.com”
13) Towers were built to withstand a Boeing jet(s). “I designed it for a 707 to hit it”, Leslie Robertson, WTC structural engineer. “Could probably sustain multiple impacts of jetliners”, “like a pencil puncturing screen netting” Frank De Martini, deceased Manager of WTC Construction & Project Management. “As far as a plane knocking a building over, that would not happen.” Charlie Thornton, Structural Engineer.
14) History of American False Flag attacks. ‘USS Liberty’, ‘Gulf of Tonkin’, ‘Operation Northwoods’, ‘OKC Bombing (Murrah Building)’, ’1993 WTC attacks’. ‘Patrick Clawson’. Project for the New American Century (PNAC) needed “a New Pearl Harbor”, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”. 9/11 Achieved those goals.
15) BBC correspondent Jane Standley reported the collapse of WTC 7 (Soloman Brothers building) 20 minutes before it happened. CNN/FOX/MSNBC also had early reports. ‘BBC wtc 7′, ‘Jane Standley’, Ashleigh Banfield’.
16) “Flight 93″ debris was spread out over many miles. Cheney admits to giving the order to shootdown 93. “shot down the plane over Pennsylvania” Rumsfeld, “nothing that you could distinguish that a plane had crashed there” ‘Chris Konicki. “Not a drop of blood” Coroner Wallace Miller. “there was no plane.” Mayor Ernie Stull.
17) Bush hesitated for 441 days before starting the 911 Commission. ‘Jersey Girls’. ‘Phil Zelikow’ already wrote the outline before the commission began. Steel shipped over seas. Obstruction of justice. JFK and Pearl Harbor commissions were started within 7 days.
18) The 911 commission was given extremely limited funds. $15 million was given to investigate 9/11. (Over $60 Million was spent investigating Clintons’ affairs with Monica).
19) Bush said he watched the first plane crash into the North tower on TV before entering the classroom. “The TV was obviously on.” Was informed about the second impact while reading ‘My Pet Goat’ to the children. Remained for at least 8 more minutes while America was under “attack”.
20) The PATRIOT ACT was written before 9/11. Signed into law October 26th, 2001.
21) Marvin Bush was director of Stratasec (Securacom, ‘KuAm’) which was in charge of security of the WTC, United Airlines and Dulles International Airport. All three were breached on 9/11. ICTS was another company that provided security at the airports. ‘Wirt Walker’, ‘Ezra Harel’, ‘ICTS”, ‘WTC power downs’.
22) “Who killed John O’Neil?”. Former FBI task force agent investigating Al Qaeda/Bin Laden. Transferred by Kroll Corporation to head the security just before 9/11. John O’Neil died in the Towers. ‘Jerome Hauer’ ‘Jules Kroll’.
23) Insider trading based upon foreknowledge. ‘Put Options.’ Never identified insiders made millions. ‘United and American Airlines’ ‘Raytheon.’
24) At least 7 of the 19 listed highjackers are still alive (BBC). No video footage of 19 highjackers or passengers boarding the 4 planes. Pilots of the 4 planes never squawked the highjacking code. ‘Alive highjackers’, ‘ACARS’, ‘Pilots for 9/11 Truth’.
WTC 7 (The Smoking Gun)
http://rememberbuilding7.org/
Building 7 was a 47-story skyscraper and was part of the World Trade Center complex. Built in 1984, it would have been the tallest high-rise in 33 states in the United States. It collapsed at 5:20 pm on September 11, 2001 in 6.5 Seconds at free fall acceleration. It was not hit by an airplane and suffered minimal damage compared to other buildings much closer to the Twin Towers.
E
Eureka Springs Organics
gaiusmarius....
I agree with you to a certain degree regarding what happened on 9/11. Some significant weird and unexpected shit happened that day, and there are historical accounts of "false flag" operations that attest to the possibility that what happened on 9/11 is not what has been reported in the main stream media. I'm not as convinced as you are, but I have an open mind to challenging the government's version of events.
But, I have a question for you. I've only seen you posting on one "conspiracy theory" (9/11) so far in this thread. How do you feel generally about the whole "conspiracy theory" field...there are literally hundreds of 'em out there. Do you think all of these are legit? My guess would be that you don't, and if not, how do you separate the legit theories from the unsupportable theories?
I see many people in this thread basically defending just about any conspiracy theory out there, and making statements that are much more likely based in paranoia than evidence. I mean, even "evidence" itself is being questioned. If you can't agree on what solid evidence is, well then where the hell are we now? Crazy land is my guess.
I agree with you to a certain degree regarding what happened on 9/11. Some significant weird and unexpected shit happened that day, and there are historical accounts of "false flag" operations that attest to the possibility that what happened on 9/11 is not what has been reported in the main stream media. I'm not as convinced as you are, but I have an open mind to challenging the government's version of events.
But, I have a question for you. I've only seen you posting on one "conspiracy theory" (9/11) so far in this thread. How do you feel generally about the whole "conspiracy theory" field...there are literally hundreds of 'em out there. Do you think all of these are legit? My guess would be that you don't, and if not, how do you separate the legit theories from the unsupportable theories?
I see many people in this thread basically defending just about any conspiracy theory out there, and making statements that are much more likely based in paranoia than evidence. I mean, even "evidence" itself is being questioned. If you can't agree on what solid evidence is, well then where the hell are we now? Crazy land is my guess.
Elsweeto
Member
no need to spend your hard earned. piracy is the future
Couldn't the same be said about big business? I understand they aren't exactly the same, but it seems that when people start talking about getting fucked over, it's always about the government, and never about big business. Hell, really any business has the potential to screw it's customers, and be greedy and all that, but big business is where the real nasty stuff happens.
FEMA camps 911 holy shit guys you been warning me about the FEMA camps for 10 fucking years lol
You guys need some serious mental help.
Its just getting pathetic now.
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You guys need some serious mental help.
Its just getting pathetic now.
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