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any kiss users have exp. with veg+bloom
- Thread starter barneyfife1
- Start date
you just described locking out the budset .... by feeding them to heavy the buds don't set right & won't grow after a certian point , they might grow a ittle but they won't fill in & you'll have what looks like foxtails or tiny rock hard buds that never grow .
you can feed her that much in veg to get her green & happy .... a little extra magnesium is a good thing for her ...... but once the buds start to form in flower ..... don't go over 1.2EC ! she don't like it in flower !!!
i have a few strains like that , you feed them heavy in veg & transition to keep them really happy , but once budset starts ..... you drop the EC levels real low or they get pissy ! your not growing the plant at that point anymore .... roots are basically done growing , stretch has stopped & its starting to flower ..... things change & so should your feeds .
theres scientific terminantion for it , but i'm just a dumb pot grower , i dunno terminology lol
I hope he listens to that advise.... We learned well I learned that the hard way....oops....
G
Guest
You just described my grow. Half way thru flower I had some signs of def or lockout. Had been feeding pretty heavy with liquid bone meal and liquid kelp. Last full feed was day 40. Today is day 60 and all milky trichromes. Maybe a couple more days.
everybody thinks that the more you feed the plants the bigger the buds will be ..... thats just not the case in 90% of the strains we grow ! they like it heavy during the growth periods when they need the food to grow healthy .... but once that growth has stopped & budset starts .... they don't need nearly as much food . most times the budset is most abundant during the last 2 weeks when we're feeding nothing but plain water & the plants using up what reserves it has in the medium & itself .
Lyfespan
Active member
weeks 1-3
1.4-1.6 ec
defol in week 3
weeks 4-5
.8-1.0 ec
defol in week 5
weeks 6-7
.2-.4 ec depending on fade quickness
weeks 8-9
just RO water to pull unused nutes from medium
plumbum
Member
thank you for your help dansbuds, i will try to follow your advice next time. i am not used to this kind of behavior. but then again, i am not used to feeding that high either. though through years growing with coco i've learned - when you start to feed coco higher usually all deficiencies disappear. you not really feeding a plant directly like with hydro. you feed coco and then coco gives back to the plant. especially important first few week after replanting.
i am at new spot right now and everything is different - RO water vs very clean tap, sealed room, higher light intensity with gravitas, higher CO2 levels and new strain! i've only grew GG#4 twice by now.
she was very hungry in veg and i figured out early on she loved magnesium. so i have been adding up to 1 g/Gallon of epsom salts. i would raise feed EC up to 1.8-1.9 and she seemed happier, when i start to see signs of over-fertilization I would back up and start feeding her lower. in response she would start showing mag and sometimes cal deficiencies and purpling of the stems. and then fading would start way too early so i would bring EC back up.
I would treat her as usual and do couple times a week spikes with MKP with low feed. but no matter what she would get stuck around week 4,5,6 and not really developing. later after week 7 she would finally start to swell and really push last few weeks.
i feel like all way through i've been struggling with her. nevertheless i did well and bit my personal record with 1.6 g/w with 2.5 weeks of veg and 9 week of flower. that was with cutting edge solutions and i didn't have budset lockout.
now with V+B DOS running 60% A / 40% B + Shine starting weeks 4 she seems happier in veg and transition. but i get budset lockout running similar EC. looking at elemental nutrient analysis i have been running similar ppm numbers, actually somewhat lower P and K. i wonder if it is because of switch from more available liquid nutrients to powder. possibly after some time salts get deposited in the medium and start "burning" plant which gives this particular reaction to bud formation? another option is phosphites in Shine react differently then phosphates...
plumbum
Member
Aspenou i would like to hear your "hard way" experience
weeks 1-3
1.4-1.6 ec
defol in week 3
weeks 4-5
.8-1.0 ec
defol in week 5
weeks 6-7
.2-.4 ec depending on fade quickness
weeks 8-9
just RO water to pull unused nutes from medium
Lyfespan, what light intensity and CO2 levels are you running? and what is your medium, container size and how often do you feed?
unfortunately, it's not that easy to follow somebody's advice since so many factors are in play - genetics, environment, medium, irrigation practices etc.. but i am listening and would like to try things out
That's the same thing did with my gg4 ... Nope low feeds
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Dans buds is spot on. Plants take in 80% of the nutrients (especially nitrogen) in veg. Veg is where its at. You can blast em (to a point). This is where they get veggy and leafy and root explosion. A nice deep green and a vibrant vigourous growing plant. This is what you want in veg. Veg to me IS EVERYTHING. Its the whole foundation for later in in bud set. And Ive actually done this..you can back off the EC/Ppm slightly when full tilt in flower mode (most strains ive grown) and they get on just fine. And they actually like it. It seems counter intuitive but they don't need much in flower. Once they set/stop stretching and start packing weight and trichomes..they dont need much in the root zone. Maybe some potassium and magnesium sulfate but not much. Most growers seem to think hammer em at peak flower production but you can run into salt overload/lockout and problems in mid late flower and many growers do. You can always tell because I see photos of people's grows towards the end and the plants and leaves especially look all burnt and beat to shit. Flowering boosters are not needed. Esp the p/k ones. The plant flowers in accordance with the lighting photoperiod (phytochrome) and not blasted with high strength/ec/ppm fertilizers.
Lyfespan
Active member
14k in DE 1000,no CO2, no AC,one huge swamp cooler, coco, RO, 5 gallon fabric pots, feed 1-2 times a day, running white cookies, ultrabrite, mendobreath, skittlez, sunset sherbert, GG#4xPandaberries, sour dubb, and a few other strains, most of which i dont do mixed tables with. i run 21 5 gallon pots stuffed into 3x6 trays.
plumbum
Member
thank you
looks like you have very tight plant spacing Lyfespan. how tall are the plants and what is your light intensity over the tables w/ft2.
it's a first time i am running CO2 enriched room, things are changing when you go above 1000 ppm
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Lyfespan
Active member
you can see more of my grows on my ig matisfarms, plants go into flower at 2' tall usually stretch to 4-5' tall, i have 2 lights over each 3x6 table, but i light the room not the tables.
Keep the dim knob right with the wattage of bulb. Unless your dealing with summer heat problems..the dimmable ballasts are more of a gimmick in reality. It taxes the bulb big time when using the knob in a wattage/% setting thats nkt the true wattage of the bulb...and the spectrum suffers as well.
My plants go from a t5 packed veg room to the 2 flower rooms when about 20 to 24 inches tall as well with at least 4 minimum main leader branches to 8. Iam in a low 6.5 foot Michigan basement and its critical that my plants stay short and wide as possible. What I do is keep my daytime temps about 3 to 5 degrees cooler than lights off temps the first 2 weeks of 12 - 12. Called the temp differential and it keeps the 2 week "stretch" at a minimum. An old green house veggie production growers trick. Plants stretch is minimal. Topping out no higher than 3 feet and often even shorter. Try it if you want a short bushy finished plant. It works.
I've never seen a plant that wanted more than 1.2-1.3 ec in bloom or veg. I do see a few plants that display classic overfeeding signs at that low ec in bloom. I don't run co2 so I can believe plants want higher ec with it. My cabinets are full of every booster and supplement known to man. Quitting using them fucking snakeoil shits was as hard as stopping drinking or smoking cigs. For me in coco the true path to great frosty buds that burn smooth, tasty and with a gray ash is a bloom ec of 1.2-1.3 and then 7-10 days of straight phed water. No goddamn flush or overflow.
plumbum
Member
i wasn't able to find your instagram Lyfespan, definitely would love to check it out.
i hear you, that’s what i usually do
i used to keep night and day temp the same when i was concerned about heigh control. i have to try it the way you do it Rondon. its a good trick to have available when you need it. GG#4 is stretching a lot, so as ogs.
I've never seen a plant that wanted more than 1.2-1.3 ec in bloom or veg. I do see a few plants that display classic overfeeding signs at that low ec in bloom. I don't run co2 so I can believe plants want higher ec with it. My cabinets are full of every booster and supplement known to man. Quitting using them fucking snakeoil shits was as hard as stopping drinking or smoking cigs. For me in coco the true path to great frosty buds that burn smooth, tasty and with a gray ash is a bloom ec of 1.2-1.3 and then 7-10 days of straight phed water. No goddamn flush or overflow.
I am sure you don’t need any PK booster if you have dialed in fertigation program. your part b is a pk booster if you like. i found that some plants response very well to PK spike at the right time. it doesn’t have to be fancy 50LB of MKP- $16 and it doesn’t have to be often. when i’ve started growing with canna coco, i really liked their simple program. one run i didn’t used PK 13/14 and it wasn’t end of the world, but my yield was lower.
since you are all dialed in with your strains and V+B. i have a question, does anyone of your send your feeding solution to the lab for analysts? i have a feeling that V+B DOS that i am trying right now at 60%/40% is somewhat different from regular V+B RO. when i’ve asked Cris he said it is different product and didn’t answer to me directly.
here what i’ve ran based on advice from hydroponic research ratios for A is 60% or 2.88 g/Gallon, for B is 40% 1.92 g/Gallon. i’ve added 0.7 g/Gallon of MgSO4 since i saw magnesium deficiency and Mg at around 30 ppm looked quite low.
to me it looked good: low P - less stretch, low K is good since there is plenty of it in coco, high Ca, 6 ppm of Silicate. not high numbers at all if you ask me for high light intensity room with CO2. that's what i've fed first 2 weeks after flip.
after that, based on advice from Hydroponic Research. Week 3 i've started to add 0.5 g/gallon of Shine and progressively increasing it up to 2 g/Gallon by week 5.
do you guys think that locking up budset is more of Original Glue problem or is it more nutrient specific?
i have some Alien and Tahoe ogs growing next to GG#4 and alien is looking stacked, but Tahoe is fox tailing.
Page 420 bitches! 
Lyfespan
Active member
Page 420 bitches!
theres only 210 pages and i got post 4200
