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any kiss users have exp. with veg+bloom
- Thread starter barneyfife1
- Start date
I just ran 4 sour bubble crosses & kept my EC no higher than 1.5 max . i did have to add some calmag to the mix which i don't usually have to do , but the SB are Cal hogs , but 2ml per gallon fixed em right up .
1.0EC in veg & 1.5 in flower & they were really healthy & happy . produced some really quality & heavy buds . in fact my Gorilla bubble cross won pic of the month for March
Funny you should mention Ca, that was the other def i was seeing at lower EC's. Whenever I go light on the feed, N and Ca defs show first. Do you go thru wet/dry cycles, and water to runoff? I have noticed that I can get by with lower EC's when I hand water with wet/dry cycles and runoff. As soon as I run the blumats, I need to up the EC. I'm not necessarily using more nutes, just less water with the nutes I do use.
FWIW, you convinced me to go it alone, without the + products. I agree that the res stays way cleaner without them. Haven't seen a difference from eliminating the "life" from my program, just a cleaner res. I'm on the fence about using the "size" as a foliar at .3ec as I've seen Chris at HR recommend . Do you really think that v+b as a stand alone is the way to go?
Definitely no "gushing" with blumats, except how much they've simplified my life(along with v+b)
Less than 5 min a day to keep the garden watered.
In veg , yes i go through wet & dry cycles for the roots t expand . but once they are , i feed daily to runoff . i veg in 5" pots & transplant them into 3 gallons for flower . so thier in the 5" pots for quite awhile & need that daily feed so they don't dry out . but 1.0 to 1.1 has been plenty to keep them happy . maybe my use of MBferts vitamin/hormone boost in veg only has alot to do with how healthy & happy they are .... but in flower , its V&B only !!!
& flower gets auto fed with pumps & drip rings once to twice a day to runoff .
i'm just finishing up a Bodhi's White Lotus run on nothing but V&B for flower . they're at 62 days under a 600 watt horti in my 4 x 4 room .... what do you think ???
& flower gets auto fed with pumps & drip rings once to twice a day to runoff .
i'm just finishing up a Bodhi's White Lotus run on nothing but V&B for flower . they're at 62 days under a 600 watt horti in my 4 x 4 room .... what do you think ???
In veg , yes i go through wet & dry cycles for the roots t expand . but once they are , i feed daily to runoff . i veg in 5" pots & transplant them into 3 gallons for flower . so thier in the 5" pots for quite awhile & need that daily feed so they don't dry out . but 1.0 to 1.1 has been plenty to keep them happy . maybe my use of MBferts vitamin/hormone boost in veg only has alot to do with how healthy & happy they are .... but in flower , its V&B only !!!
& flower gets auto fed with pumps & drip rings once to twice a day to runoff .
i'm just finishing up a Bohdi's White Lotus run on nothing but V&B for flower . they're at 62 days under a 600 watt horti in my 4 x 4 room .... what do you think ???
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I think it looks really good
. How manyplants under that 600? Expected yield? Which formula you using? What about base water? You've got wonderful senescence there BTW. I usually end up with some fried leaves by the end.I'm sure if I used larger pots and handwatered, I could get by with quite a bit lower ec. However, I'd use a lot more water, and spend a lot more time applying said water. The blumats and small pots are just so much easier for me. I work full time, and like to have a life, so garden time needs to be kept to a reasonable minimum. Also I've only got access to 1 side of my tent, so it's a real mother to hand water.
Chris at HR advised me to keep upping the dose weekly in veg until the first signs of overfeeding, then consider the last weeks dose to be the "max" dose. I got up to 1.6-1.7 in veg, with 0 signs of trouble. Only lush, vigorous growth. I was scared to go above 1.8 in flower(~1.5ec v+b) + (~.3ec +size), but still had excellent results. My senescence wasn't as nice as yours though. I had a fair amount of necrosis on the bigger fan leaves. At the time I thought maybe too much food/burn, but now I'm considering the possibility of late flower deficiencies. I going to feed for 7 weeks, flush for 1 on this run to see.
My theory is that the plants need the higher EC's due to my style of grow. I've got relatively large plants(4-5' finish), in relatively small pots(~1gal), using relatively small amounts of water( .25-.40 gallons/day, no runoff) growing in very bright conditions(2-1K's in a 5x9 tent). The only time I've had a problem, is when I tried to run the lower EC's that most growers are using. However, I would never handwater with the kind of EC's I use with the blumats. In any event, I'm still in the learning curve for blumats , v+b, and growing in general.
I think it looks really good
4 plants in 3 gallon smarties , yield , hoping for a pound or better . my water is RO/DI ...0 water & i use the RO formula . 10 to 14 days on plain RO water & they're dieing on the vines by finish .
I'm sure if I used larger pots and handwatered, I could get by with quite a bit lower ec. However, I'd use a lot more water, and spend a lot more time applying said water. The blumats and small pots are just so much easier for me. I work full time, and like to have a life, so garden time needs to be kept to a reasonable minimum. Also I've only got access to 1 side of my tent, so it's a real mother to hand water.
I hear ya , i'm set up with pumps & drip rings , even on my big veg . this time of year i'm gone for 4 days at a clip at camp , so i need the rez's to handle that time gone & my 18 gallon totes do just fine . the small stuff i put in trays & just fill the tray so they bottom feed while i'm gone , other wise i'd just hand feed them .
Chris at HR advised me to keep upping the dose weekly in veg until the first signs of overfeeding, then consider the last weeks dose to be the "max" dose. I got up to 1.6-1.7 in veg, with 0 signs of trouble. Only lush, vigorous growth. I was scared to go above 1.8 in flower(~1.5ec v+b) + (~.3ec +size), but still had excellent results. My senescence wasn't as nice as yours though. I had a fair amount of necrosis on the bigger fan leaves. At the time I thought maybe too much food/burn, but now I'm considering the possibility of late flower deficiencies. I going to feed for 7 weeks, flush for 1 on this run to see.
i'm just the opposite , i feed low till i see a def , then bump it if its needed . i was feeding up to 2.0 for along time , till a buddy showed me proof of what happens with a lower feed & it made a believer out of me on the first run ..... my yield almost doubled on the same strain .
My theory is that the plants need the higher EC's due to my style of grow. I've got relatively large plants(4-5' finish), in relatively small pots(~1gal), using relatively small amounts of water( .25-.40 gallons/day, no runoff) growing in very bright conditions(2-1K's in a 5x9 tent). The only time I've had a problem, is when I tried to run the lower EC's that most growers are using. However, I would never handwater with the kind of EC's I use with the blumats. In any event, I'm still in the learning curve for blumats , v+b, and growing in general.
smaller pots & bigger plants will of course need more water & the blumats dailed in will make that happen ..... not sure on the higher EC though .
yours is a unique situation for sure & if its working for you , then by all means keep at it ! i'm pretty sure you'll run into a strain or 2 that will not like that much food & could lock up on budset for you ..... i've had it happen myself & its why i start low & build up now , instead of feeding max & the backing down . cuz once its locked up .....theres no fixing it then .
My bigger flower room is brighter than yours . i run 3 lights in a 4' x 9 room . 1000 on each end with a 600 in the middle , in summer i have to turn the thoueys down to 750 to keep the heat in check , but i'm still over 2k watts in there , & my plants get to 4 to 5 foot also , so i don't see the nutes having any differences in both rooms , just the amount of water they're using to keep the pots wet . 3 gallon pots have to be fed every day & 2x a day in late flower . i run 2 trays with 4 plants per tray perpetual . 5 weeks apart & i've been averaging 22 to 24 zips per tray . biggest run so far was 31 & that was GG4
Hey dans, your gardens looking good by the way, I thought you were using black hole drippers but I dont see them in your pics at all did you change back to regular stakes? Im looking to purchase a auto watering setup and was going to use the black holes with 1/4" inlets, wondering if you had any issues with them that you stopped using them, like clogging or something.
Thanx no , that last pic was from before i started using the black hole drip rings .
i'm sooooo glad i ditched the stakes for the drip rings !!! much better spread across the pot ! was getting dry spots with the stakes .
heres the white lotus run with the drip rings & smart pots .
no , that last pic was from before i started using the black hole drip rings . i'm sooooo glad i ditched the stakes for the drip rings !!! much better spread across the pot ! was getting dry spots with the stakes .
heres the white lotus run with the drip rings & smart pots .
Looking really good dan! I like your set-up. I wish I could get by with 4/1K but I just don't see the SourBubble yielding much more than 2oz/plant.
I'm going to take the "less is more" approach with my most recent cuttings. They're currently under the 480w t-5 array, 4.5" pots ~3"tall, and I'm going to feed at .8EC for now...sound about right?
You're obviously having great results,definitely better than mine, so I've got to wonder..."Am I overfeeding?" I used HD last run, and got up to 1.8 EC through most of flower. I got 1.25#/1K, which is according to BOG is pretty normal. The budset did seem a little lackluster, although the final product was quite popular.
This run, the plants are at ~3', and I'm feeding at ~1.5 at the moment. Half of the plants look fine, but the other half have what appears to be various deficiencies. I saw various, because diagnosing sick plants has never been my forte. I'd always been told that v+b will manifest all sorts of deficiencies when you feed too low, and burn when you feed too high. I've also been told that SourBubble is a "very hungry plant". The current run starting showing what looked like deficiencies about 2 weeks after being placed in the main tent(still in veg), so I upped the feed from about 1.2 to 1.4. Two weeks later, and I'm still at half and half looking good or bad. I'm starting to wonder if I've overfeed, and locked them out. I pushed them quite a bit harder last run, but that was with the HD formula.
I went through last night and pruned them in preparation for flower, as they're almost at the "too tall for my tent" stage. I've got some pics of various leaves, which I'd like your opinion on. I turned the lights back to 12/12 last night, but I'm starting to wonder if it was a mistake...Starting to wonder if the deficiencies are from "lockout" instead. Here's the pics, any thoughts or advice would be most welcome.
I'm going to take the "less is more" approach with my most recent cuttings. They're currently under the 480w t-5 array, 4.5" pots ~3"tall, and I'm going to feed at .8EC for now...sound about right?
You're obviously having great results,definitely better than mine, so I've got to wonder..."Am I overfeeding?" I used HD last run, and got up to 1.8 EC through most of flower. I got 1.25#/1K, which is according to BOG is pretty normal. The budset did seem a little lackluster, although the final product was quite popular.
This run, the plants are at ~3', and I'm feeding at ~1.5 at the moment. Half of the plants look fine, but the other half have what appears to be various deficiencies. I saw various, because diagnosing sick plants has never been my forte. I'd always been told that v+b will manifest all sorts of deficiencies when you feed too low, and burn when you feed too high. I've also been told that SourBubble is a "very hungry plant". The current run starting showing what looked like deficiencies about 2 weeks after being placed in the main tent(still in veg), so I upped the feed from about 1.2 to 1.4. Two weeks later, and I'm still at half and half looking good or bad. I'm starting to wonder if I've overfeed, and locked them out. I pushed them quite a bit harder last run, but that was with the HD formula.
I went through last night and pruned them in preparation for flower, as they're almost at the "too tall for my tent" stage. I've got some pics of various leaves, which I'd like your opinion on. I turned the lights back to 12/12 last night, but I'm starting to wonder if it was a mistake...Starting to wonder if the deficiencies are from "lockout" instead. Here's the pics, any thoughts or advice would be most welcome.
I don't see lock out ,
I'm seeing a couple things wrong in them leaves ... cal def , mag def , phospherous ...... with the HD formula , were you mixing & feeding right away ? i noticed the short time that i used it , the PH would climb over night .but your not using the HD this time right ? what formula are you using ??? & whats your waters EC ? the reason i ask is cuz it looks like its a PH problem in your plants . if its not in a good range then nutes can't get to the plants properly . coco & hydro is a PH of 5.9 where soils is a 6.5 ....
1.2 to 1.4 is good for a hungry SB ..... check your PH going in & coming out , they should be close to the same measurements . also check & recalibrate your meter if you use one .
are you in soil , promix , coco .... what ?
the feed strength looks good to me , i'm thinking PH is outa whack .
heres the leaf chart i use for defs ....plus the sick plant thread ....
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=231387
I have to think your wasting nutes, my tap water is 200 to 300 ppm, with 1 table spoon of HD in a 5gl bucket im getting 800 ppm, mine are much thicker, shorter node spacing also bushier. in flower I add one teaspoon of plus size at start of flower, 2 teaspoons start of week 4. there stacking much tighter, if its possible take one plant and do a side by side with lower ppms and what your doing.
i imagine that FWOK stuff loves the high EC because its rockwool base which is know for taking high EC where the rest of us coco/hyrdoton/promix guys are like "are you sure your numbers are right"
the DHN guys(ugh, sore subject) are talking about hardening off clones at 1300ppm.
and ya what really cost me was trading out reservoirs every week and now im running the same rez for 2 weeks and just topping off with water, and they look like they like that even better than fresh rez every week.
my double d's are still poking out baby green budleafs and i have just been topping off with water for the last two weeks.
the product seems to mainly perform about 80% the same for everybody, its the garden type where the mileage varies
the DHN guys(ugh, sore subject) are talking about hardening off clones at 1300ppm.
and ya what really cost me was trading out reservoirs every week and now im running the same rez for 2 weeks and just topping off with water, and they look like they like that even better than fresh rez every week.
my double d's are still poking out baby green budleafs and i have just been topping off with water for the last two weeks.
the product seems to mainly perform about 80% the same for everybody, its the garden type where the mileage varies
Good call on the ph dan
I had to clean and recalibrate my ph meter, as I hadn't used it in a few months, but I found my res to be sitting at ~5.5ph. Just low enough to start causing problems with uptake. I adjusted the res up to ~5.9. Next I made a fresh bucket of mix(1.1EC) and measured ph...~5.6. A small dash of ph+ brings it to ~5.9. Hopefully the corrected ph will result in a quick turnaround for the affected plants.I'll be keeping a closer eye on the ph from now on. My first v+b run(RO), I checked the ph all the time. It mixed and held very steady ~5.8 for the entire grow. The last run(HD) I stopped checking about half way through. It was also mixing and holding steady at ~5.8. I've Just been using my EC meter since. From here on out, I guess I'll go back to checking the ph as well as the EC. Wonder why it's no longer mixing and holding at 5.8. The low ph also explains why my cuts are starting so slowly.
I'm growing in Aeration Mix, which is primarily coco and perlite. My source water is tap(~600ppm), which I put through my RO machine and get 0ppm. I'm using the RO formula this run.
I'm currently 2 days into flower, what do you think would be appropriate feeds for each week, with the SourBubble?
Thanks again for the good call on the PH
Good call on the ph dan
I'll be keeping a closer eye on the ph from now on. My first v+b run(RO), I checked the ph all the time. It mixed and held very steady ~5.8 for the entire grow. The last run(HD) I stopped checking about half way through. It was also mixing and holding steady at ~5.8. I've Just been using my EC meter since. From here on out, I guess I'll go back to checking the ph as well as the EC. Wonder why it's no longer mixing and holding at 5.8. The low ph also explains why my cuts are starting so slowly.
I'm growing in Aeration Mix, which is primarily coco and perlite. My source water is tap(~600ppm), which I put through my RO machine and get 0ppm. I'm using the RO formula this run.
I'm currently 2 days into flower, what do you think would be appropriate feeds for each week, with the SourBubble?
Thanks again for the good call on the PH
i'd say max out at 1.5 or 1.6 by week 3 , then keep it there untill week 6 . then a half dose rez for a week then the plain water feeds till chop . thats what i was doing for my gorilla bubbles & death bubbles .
yeah now that your PH is in check they'll turn around & perk up nicely real quick .
good luck brutha & hope ya get a Fat harvest of stickyness
I'm recirculating so for every gallon of nutes I use I am recapturing the runoff and cut it back down to 2.0. My water is .3 ec so I'm using 1.7ec VB at Rez change. So all in all it is most likely much more efficient then drain to waste at 1.5 ec in coco. I agree with jay jay, environment and Rockwool let you feed heavier and faster. This run looks like it's going to be huge. That pic was yesterday and it was just finishing week 1
you could very well be right, I meant no disrespect, I have never played with RW.
what im using now is most def not cheaper,it just works better for me,
pushes plants harder and makes them bigger, like i am used to seeing in my rooms.
i wasnt even getting half of what i am used to seeing w the v + b.
im using heavy 16 now,and they are working beautifully.
even with low yielders like bubba and irene im getting acceptable numbers.
the v+b grows real good weed,if i was just starting out id have been stoked...but im not.
i know what the strains i run can do and how they grow.
the v+b was making quite a few of my strains get much more leaf thru flower then they usually do,and less bud.
dont get me wrong im not at all bashing this product,
it does what it says it does.i really like they way it vegges and the stretch it gives after flip,
just not impressed with the bulk it gives the flowers,or lack of i should say...
im gonna use it up eventually on seed runs or tent runs with new strains,
its just not something ill be using in my bigger room.
when running 8k i might be feeding a bit more,
maybe thats why im going thru it faster...
like i said,i was getting only around 20 feeds per 5 lb tub
at over a 1/4 lb per feed in 15 gallons.
sometimes my pots go light up to 3 times a week
either way,whatever works for you homie.
peace-T-
no disrespect taken joesy, always looking for perspective. I'm doing some coco now too and will report back.
Here's a hot tip for hi-intensity LED users:they turn our girls into magnesium whores, which they kinda are anyway
I bump my nutes, plus, add it to my foliar feeding
Also, my last grow the buds were much bigger thanks to getting help on how much +Size to use and when
View attachment 319281 View attachment 319282
I bump my nutes, plus, add it to my foliar feeding
Also, my last grow the buds were much bigger thanks to getting help on how much +Size to use and when
View attachment 319281 View attachment 319282
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Super Silver Sour Thai Nevil - Attempt of sativa in micro- Latest: zachrockbadenof
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Super Silver Sour Thai Nevil - Attempt of sativa in micro
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