Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[rasputin]

Surprised to hear some of the reports on AEA claiming that they were told basically 'tough shit' from the rep they spoke to about getting a split or cracked bottle replaced. Doesn't sound like we're getting the whole story there, based on my experience dealing with them. I don't think they're perfect in terms of service and response time, but they have never been hard asses. Maybe I've just been lucky.

With Rejuvenate don't let them ship it to you in the same size container as the product amount you're ordering. If you order 2.5 gallons and it comes in a 2.5 bottle, it's going to bloat and probably split or crack somewhere. Same deal w/the 1 gallon bottles. Have them double up the container relative to the actual amount. Get 1 gallon shipped in a 2.5 bottle, for example. Haven't had any issues since doing this.

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

Surprised to hear some of the reports on AEA claiming that they were told basically 'tough shit' from the rep they spoke to about getting a split or cracked bottle replaced. Doesn't sound like we're getting the whole story there, based on my experience dealing with them. I don't think they're perfect in terms of service and response time, but they have never been hard asses. Maybe I've just been lucky.

With Rejuvenate don't let them ship it to you in the same size container as the product amount you're ordering. If you order 2.5 gallons and it comes in a 2.5 bottle, it's going to bloat and probably split or crack somewhere. Same deal w/the 1 gallon bottles. Have them double up the container relative to the actual amount. Get 1 gallon shipped in a 2.5 bottle, for example. Haven't had any issues since doing this.

That is a great idea. I may have to give that a try.

HB.

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

Milkyjoe, where'd ya go?

Come on home now ya hear.

HB.

 

[EastBayGrower]

Anyone else notice the strong.smell of soy/soy sauce with rejuvenate, had a bottle leak and it smells like chinese food in my house lol

 

[Johnny Redthumb]

I'm really leaning towards dumping it on the floor, haha! RW says about 3 years worth of soil on the floor is when things really rage. The healthiest plants, the Sunset Sherberts, have alfalfa growing around the pots on the greenhouse floor. The shittiest plants have common reed or nothing growing around the pots. I just spent a serious chunk of change on that soil and dumping it seems kinda pricy, especially since its shitty performance is already costing me big bucks. I won't hit the numbers I hit last year, thats for sure. Been doing some feeds of about 2lbs each of Super K Fulvate and epsom for the whole GH, with some Rebound trace minerals and light dose of Accelerate. Getting decent responses, but I'm already getting some fading and yellowing on the inner leaves. Its a wash, unfortunately. Kind of embarrassing... So maybe I need to crank the AEA stuff to really get something out of em. Following the BAS program is complete shit, IMO. No way teas are fixing these.

But over on the other side of the farm in the clay mix, they are growing 2-3 inches per day and looking LUSH...

 

[Johnny Redthumb]

Still using some of AEA's products. This bed was treated with rejuvenate and sea stim. Other products were used however and I loaded up the soil with 100ppm Mn and some vansil.

https://beauregardparishcountrylife.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/gardening-note-toxins-in-concrete-blocks-and-concrete/

Not sure if you've read anything about cinder blocks being toxic in gardens, but that could be effecting your basil.

 

[orechron]

Thanks for the link Redthumb, I hope that is not whats going on.

Your situation is a weird one. You see a bunch of people using that soil inside with good results but maybe the cover crop just got established enough to have that effect. I used clover last round indoors and mulched it a week before the flip. It wasn't nearly as good as the previous round and I think I"m just going to lay straw this time.

 

[Johnny Redthumb]

Thanks for the link Redthumb, I hope that is not whats going on.

Your situation is a weird one. You see a bunch of people using that soil inside with good results but maybe the cover crop just got established enough to have that effect. I used clover last round indoors and mulched it a week before the flip. It wasn't nearly as good as the previous round and I think I"m just going to lay straw this time.

I've been chuckin all sorts of stuff in this soil, but keeping it within line of reusing the soil and not injuring microbial live. Ca is at 85% BCS. Nothing is moving. Ready to throw some solubles at it. A little CaNO3 and MKP might get em going a bit. I know I'm killing colonies and making the soil less reusable, not making the microbes work hard. But everything is so unavailable already. Not sure what or if I did something wrong. But I know salts. Just sucks dropping money that could of bought me a new truck on soil, only to use it as a lifeless spongy mass and toss it at the end of the year.

 

[MrBungle]

Sorry I didnt expound on the bricks being toxic to your garden Orechron.. I just sorta thought that was common knowledge along with not using treated wood for raised beds and such

 

[FoothillFarming]

Cinder blocks are just fine. If you want you can use a low VOC concrete sealer, or heavy 6mil or greater plastic barrier. No problem.

 

[FoothillFarming]

Milkyjoe, where'd ya go?

Come on home now ya hear.

He is still here.....

Your problem is not too little of this or that, your problem is too much Ca. If you pour gallons of AEA (even if it is balanced) you will end up with soil further out of balance than you started with. If you plan to replace it next yr then fine, pound away with the AEA. If you are looking to balance it and reuse it then a more restrained approach is in order. Get you 10 acres worth of spectrum extra and use it up this yr. the ones that arent needed cause you have plenty of Ca will go dormant, the microbes that bring mg, K, etc will get busy and eventually balance this soil out for you.

Or just bottle feed it this yr and next yr dump that on the gh floor and start with a heavy clay mix. With your pot size it would be awesome to see.

I can sense a Milky post from a mile away.

Lets say you doubled your inputs and your soil is super hot. I would still NEVER THROW IT AWAY! Just cut it with 100% of the total volume of your base soil mix, and now you have twice the soil, at 50% less cost than throwing it out.......... Lets get practical huh?

 

[Johnny Redthumb]

Lets say you doubled your inputs and your soil is super hot. I would still NEVER THROW IT AWAY! Just cut it with 100% of the total volume of your base soil mix, and now you have twice the soil, at 50% less cost than throwing it out.......... Lets get practical huh?

The problem is there is 4+ years of Calcium in there. The plants are so stunted this year that I doubt they are even assimilating much of that Calcium this year. So even if I strongly amend trace, K, and Mg, like dumping a full gallon of Rejuvenate every week, I'm still gonna fight a high Calcium battle next year, no matter what. I'm not saying toss it out completely, but if I re-amend it and reuse it next year, there is still a good chance that my pocket book stays injured, too. If I line the floor of my greenhouse with it, I will have 4 years of Calcium in my floor, that the roots can dig into. I have 60yards of soil in 3yd containers in my greenhouse. The money I spent this year on soil can go to buying a 4yd soil mixer and I won't have to depend on anyone. I'm out in the middle of BFE and any kind of soil delivery out here is expensive as shit. If I can mix a more balanced and heavy mix right off the bat, and still have all this high calcium soil as a reserve in the floor, I think I'll be better off.

I gotta go fiddle with my new irrigation controller, let me see if I can get some pics...

 

[slownickel]

Johnny Red,

Do you have a soil analysis?

It is not that hard to balance a soil.

If not, send it to Spectrumanalytic labs and get the Melich 3 and [email protected] done to find out how much calcium you really have. Also request Al, Na and nitrogens. Much cheaper than throwing stuff away... and you might be surprised what is really going on in your soil.

Do you have a water analysis?

 

[jidoka]

JR...if you are gonna do that lots of accelerate at this point with maybe every third wk a and b.

Better yet a combo KNO3 and epsom

You gotta let em fight for a little while til they establish the root/soil connection. Once it is actually working life gets easier

Just got back the clay mix. Send it to you tonight. There are improvements to be made. Still needs Ca, best performing soil I have...go figure

 

[jidoka]

He is still here.....



I can sense a Milky post from a mile away.

Lets say you doubled your inputs and your soil is super hot. I would still NEVER THROW IT AWAY! Just cut it with 100% of the total volume of your base soil mix, and now you have twice the soil, at 50% less cost than throwing it out.......... Lets get practical huh?

I actually agree with this. Look at bigger pots where we cut that coot with the milky clay mix.

How the fuck do you post Logan tests without your name on them?

The clay mix is at 60% Ca and 18% Mg and is just destroying f0r me. No drainage probs cause I used basalt for a drainage amendment. I might switch to 60:20 Ca:Mg

 

[Johnny Redthumb]

Do you have a soil analysis?

Probably wouldn't be posting in this thread without a soil analysis. I have a water analysis from a few years ago somewhere, not scanned, on paper. I'd have to dig it up. But my water is dechlorinated through a filter and at less than 20ppm, 7.1pH, I think about 10-11ppm is Magnesium (mountain snow-melt water picks up Mg). Pretty clean.

I'm aware that under most conditions, soil can be balanced quite easily. But if you are above 79% Ca of TCEC, things get tough. Working through to soil balancing worksheets, I am WAY past the annual application limits on Mg, K, B, Mn, Cu, and Zn. If I followed those, I might have balanced soil in about 3-4 years.

How the fuck do you post Logan tests without your name on them?

Save PDF as JPEG and then crop out the header in Preview/Paint app.

 

[Johnny Redthumb]

JR...if you are gonna do that lots of accelerate at this point with maybe every third wk a and b.

Better yet a combo KNO3 and epsom

You gotta let em fight for a little while til they establish the root/soil connection. Once it is actually working life gets easier

Just got back the clay mix. Send it to you tonight. There are improvements to be made. Still needs Ca, best performing soil I have...go figure

A and B what? Holo Mac and Mic?

Where do you buy KNO3 without being followed home and getting on a Timothy McVeigh list? I've been using K2SO4 and epsom. I was actually gonna do K2SO4 and a little MgNO3 next, and push em with some SeaShield and SeaStim. But I need to use up these swollen ass Accelerate bottles.

 

[jidoka]

Yea mac and mic or nutralive a and b...same thing

Kno3...custrom hydro nutes

Those swollen accelerate bottles are straight fire. I know I am above you on mn and no problem using it.

 

[slownickel]

Red,

You might be surprised.

Quite often high calcium is not in reality high calcium.

Melich 3 grossly overstates Calcium if you have been adding calcium in carbonate form.

Carbonate with the water pH you have will take a zillion years to become available if ever.

I have white soils that hit 100,000 ppm of Ca and would report back 99% Ca. Guess what?

If I didn't apply gypsum, nothing would grow there. That calcium is in a mineral form, specifically carbonates. Yes, oodles of OM help a lot, but it will take 10 years to make that calcium available.

You need to realize the dynamics of soil/water.

 

[slownickel]

Calcareous Soils

Calcareous Soils

Realize it took the golf course folk to figure the issues regarding calcium, not the ag schools!!!!

Enjoy!