Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[plantingplants]

If orech used a control and did proper science, and only this special water raised their nitrate like that consistently, then I'm sure there's another explanation beyond it being 'structured'.

The desalinated sea water concentrate they list on their SDS is probably what's acting as the prebiotic. Especially considering all of their marketing for Sea-Crop is based on it being a microbe growth catalyst. So it grows the shit out of whatever microbes are in the bottle, like you said. Have you tried mixing sea crop with kelp and molasses and humic acid (that's in there, too)? Maybe there's a synergy there. There has to be a better explanation than pseudoscience.


Oh no. It is the sea water isn't it.. just blink once if I'm right... is it 'ORMUS'? The mystical elements that are supposedly configured in some way that gives them magic properties (literally claimed to do pretty much anything-- cure anything, slow aging, repair dna, change your 'energy field' into a superconductor ?!). While researching the use of sea water in ag, I stumbled across a paper about ORMUS and its 'exciting potential in improving the soil, increasing crop yields,' etc. and it mentions that one of the easiest ways to get ORMUS is from sea water since these special elements are present in the right amounts to get the right configuration.

Of course if it is literally changing nitrate levels, then I do believe they add a little special sauce to their ORMUS.


You drink fulvic acid? I do a couple morning bumps of teravita sp-85 every day. I prefer sp-90- less nose blowing. just joshin'. do you mix the fulvic in anything? What's it taste like?

 

[milkyjoe]

It is not desalinated sea water, sea crop. Not omrus

The fulvic doesn't taste bad I just drink it raw, 1/2 a shot. The sea crop is another story, it tastes bad alone.

and I don't disagree, the explanation may be totally wrong. What would a proper scientific control look like?

 

[FoothillFarming]

I haven't had any problems with their products once they arrive to me. I just keep the caps loose / unscrewed on the ones that want to swell up- that's all it takes, problem solved. They probably should have that in writing on the bottles that are at risk of explosion / leaks though.

The rejuvenate, growth, sea stim and pht bloom are the ones you have to worry about. I just leave the cap loose.

Been on the phone with the shipping guy for the last month, and we figured out that the reason I am getting explosive bottles is because they ran out of caps with holes in them.........I guess they just ordered 20,000 caps, but in the mean time they were just using caps with no vents............So after the second round of explosions, you would think they would double check they are sending the right caps right? Nope, they just sent out more bottles with vent-less caps that ended up destroying my room.

I just received my 4th replacement order of Rejuvenate yesterday..... Spent another 100$ on food safe buckets and lids........ When the order arrived 2 of the 2.5 gallon aea containers had vent lids, and the other two did not. The two that did not looked like it had expanded to twice it's size, and was just waiting to blow. Once I dumped the 2.5 gallons into a 5 gallon bucket, it was crazy to watch how much it bubbled up, it expanded up to the 3.5 gallon mark......How in the world do they fit a product that expands by a full gallon in a bottle and not expect it to explode? Truly mind blowing.

So now I have MAD buckets taking up ample room, with holes drilled in the tops. Not sure if this will effect the longevity of the product with an easy contamination channel like that......

Such a great product, from what appears to be a stand out CEO. However, zero forethought into what happens when you send a ticking time bomb into the mail for their customers......

 

[MrBungle]

fox farm's bush doctor products has a small hole drilled in the cap... I always wondered why... now I think I know

 

[FoothillFarming]

Those rates are low work well for for clones and small plants. Based off 100 sq foot. Def can go much higher. Hope all is growing well.

Thanks for the response. I have been doubling those rates on my full season plants that are almost 10' tall now. Been using full strength on my deps with 3' plants and seems weak even for that size plant. Been top dressing as well with BioLive in the last couple weeks.

Hope all is well with you.

 

[FoothillFarming]

Anybody else willing to post up application rates? Anybody have notes on what BYF was doing?

 

[plantingplants]

and I don't disagree, the explanation may be totally wrong. What would a proper scientific control look like?

So I'm not a trained scientist, at all, but I know you need to control variables to accurately test one thing, so here's what I would do if I wanted to test this just amateur style to see if it's worth doing an actual study on (with a bigger sample size and more tests).

First, I'd figure out how to use the meter well. Hopefully there are already established testing procedures to get reliable results so there's no mistaking results for natural occurrences. ie, drop size affecting reading, time of day, where on the plant, etc. For ex., can you get roughly the same reading from fan leaves at the same height on the plant? That would be useful to for getting consistency.

I'd take a three readings each from 6 plants, then I would spray tap water on half of them, secret water on the second half. I would then spray distilled water to rinse the leaves after maybe four hours. I'd let dry and test sap again, three readings from each plant, and compare.

I'd want to eliminate the rinsing part somehow, since that might throw things off, but if you don't, your sap will be contaminated by your spray and results possibly skewed. Maybe you could just spray half the plant, and test the half that wasn't sprayed, but I've seen studies that show foliar applied urea (I think it was urea..) on cotton just goes to the nearest cotton boll, so this experiment isn't perfect, it's just my first shot at it.

 

[plantingplants]

EDIT: I think this may not have been posted by him. Sorry. I can't figure this thread out with its page numbers.

Foothill, here's something. I found a post by byf from a google search on the growing big plants outdoors thread, but I couldn't get more than just the little description blurb from google since the page numbers are all fucked up on that thread:

Sea Shield 1 OZ
PHT Phosphorus 1 OZ
PhotoMag 1 OZ
Sea Stim .5 OZ
Sea Crop 2 OZ
in 55 gallon drum

Rejuvenate 3OZ
Albion Calcium 3 grams per gallon.
Fulvic Acid 3 grams per gallon.


Here's the search I used to find it:

site:icmag.com "backyard farmer" seashield

 

[milkyjoe]

Sorry about the sideways pics but I am too lazy to fix it. The first pic is in my new clay based mix where I used Vansil as my Ca source. I cannot say for sure the silica did it but this plant has crazy thick stems all the way to the top of the plant...like thicker and harder than a number 2 pencil. The wind dries it out but does not whip it around much. Still we will be building support tomorrow.

The second pic shows how much clay is in this mix. When the wind dries out the top it cracks. So it is kinda light water, light water, light water, heavy water. It is literally using half the water my light mixes are. I love it but it terrifies people that see it. Plus orech may recognize this head stash plant.

Third is a blue city diesel which I am hoping can replace blue dream for me. Those are BDs behind it

 

[plantingplants]

Mj thanks for sharing your experiments with us. I like to do the light light heavy water too to keep the top moist. What do you think is the secret to clay mixes?

Joe, if you feel inclined, it would be interestin to see the results of a nitrate sap test with the secret water, I mean literally dropping the water on the meter. Also seeing the water under a scope to check for microbes.

 

[orechron]

Plantingplants, some of my posts should come with a caveat. Research used to be my job and I don't mean for my comments on here to sound concrete. If or when I have a recreational license I won't have to worry about plant count and could do a few experiments. The bigger the sample sizes the better, maybe 100 plants in each treatment type of thing.

So, this is anecdotal, but I measure sap nitrate every three days or so and measurements were steady before I tried this stuff. I've been told it is a fermentation product that starts with dairy manure and takes over a year to complete. It is claimed that the microbes are responsible for the change in the water, not some nuclear reactor. I am skeptical.

Milky, I'm really glad you put one of those BCD's outside. I don't know if it can match the total weight of blue dream but it puts out very large flowers. It should be a hit considering your area probably isn't saturated with it.

 

[milkyjoe]

First you gotta determine the standard deviation. Then you plug into minitab and it tells you the sample size. I am betting 1000s v 100.

Anyways, I don't doubt it works but I know I am being lied to about what it is exactly.

Orech...gonna be a western slope growers contest in dec. I plan to bring the odyssey...as long as I beat rootwise and space case I will be happy

 

[plantingplants]

lol milky how are you gonna ask me what a proper control would be and you already know how to do this shit?

I'm surprised no one has scoped some Rejuvenate. I think I'm gonna pick some up.

 

[milkyjoe]

I wanted to find out about you. Turns out you are a smart dude. I will pm you later tonight

 

[reppin2c]

Contest you say? Where? I might show

 

[FoothillFarming]

Some evidence of AEA working. I am still waiting to hear back from AEA before I make my decision to stay with them or not. However, the results are undeniable.

Milky - looks like your plants are a tint or two off. That sea shield works great, but you gotta bump up the rates if you were agreeing with leads applications. Also, where are your companion crops, or at least a mulch? Best of luck.

 

[plantingplants]

Damn those are some full plants, Foothill.

Haha a test! Of course. Thanks milky.

 

[orechron]

Milky, have you used minitab and run any experiments on those couple of topics we've talked about? These things are always in the back of my mind but I can't bring myself to sacrifice any production space.

Also, do you only get one entry for that contest? Root and Spacecase will be tough competition. Both will prob bring an OG of some sort and Root is running some pretty gnarly looking rare stuff this year.

 

[reppin2c]

Nice plants guys. Figured id contribute with a pic of my deps

 

[milkyjoe]

Nice reppin2c...give space a call. He has details. It would be cool to meet you.

FF...none of these plants has received any foliar or feed yet. I wanted to see what the dirt would do on its own. My philosophy is different, I want to work with the soil so I minimize any other input. The wind is a bitch this year though so yea, I gotta do something to build the fat content up to slow transpiration. I will probably spray Accelerate tonight and fertigate Hollow Mac and Mic next time I water.

orech...yea both those guys might well stomp my ass. Just a little trash talk. space has the Legend and is growing one, that could well be trouble. Hell, I might bring blue dream, strains will be anonymous.

I used minitab back in my corporate life...not sure I wanna use it again. I simply have no way of running a valid sample size.

Just got an AEA order. Hollow Mic was slightly bloated but Mac had no issue. Accelerate maybe did not explode but it oozed into the plastic bag sealed in a box that was surrounded by plastic, then peanuts and then another box. It had a little rubber pop off valve in the lid. I stabbed the pop off valve and pulled it out which let off air with no other problems. Rejuvenate is on backorder