Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[milkyjoe]

1000 sq ft @ 6"? That is the common depth.

1000 sq ft x 1/2 ft = 500 cubic ft ÷ 27 cubic ft/yd = 18.5 yds

Edit...if you run them deeper then you have to adjust

Edit 2...does bill have info on P in peat? I was thinking about testing Premier.

 

[50YardLine]

I asked the same question about testing peat. He said he often finds peat mixes with low P, so he wasn't worried about the peat adding to the overall P.

I took my samples at 6" deep. However I turn in my soil, so I assumed I would add my total volume of soil......

 

[leadsled]

Why does it say things like, "Sulfer can, if incorporated." WTF does that mean. I am paying for recommendations, not half thoughts. Also, what's up with the N results.......Once again I am asking for recommendations, not half thoughts.

There is an application rate maximum for what you would apply at one time for each element.

So what that means is if the recommendation says sulfur than incorporate the sulfur with all the other amendments.

N is usally not included because N levels can change based on weather, same with so many other factors that vary. Can also get little more complicated than other inputs, if you think about all the variables.
Also n is #1 of being abused and overused.

Guidelines for N vary depending on crop. Basic rule is 100lbs an acre for low demand vegtables. May need more for hungry crops.
Assumption is thet 15-25 lbs of N will be released for each percentage of OM in your soil.
That is the method to calculate N based on your organic matter.

Ideally should also think about the carbon to N ratio of the N input, so we do not deplete the carbon by overapplying N.

Not only thinking about chemical, but also what is happening with biological activity and nitrogen fixation.

If you did the neem cake then usually that provides plenty of N.
Seen that vary depending on source of neem cake. (neem resource vs dte) Would be wary of adding more N if the plants finished with plenty.

I feel it is ideal to test the biology, that way in time we can earn the right to not add N inputs and make the most of teaming with microbes, which them take advantage of nitrogen fixation.

If you only think of the chemical perspective will be missing out. Go to make sure the soil is staying aerobic and you are keeping things going in the right direction.

Another way to get an estimate is to use a solvita c02 test. Shows the soil respiration and can give estimates for N release.

You got high levels of aluminum, I was told that can be an indicator of low microbial activity in the soil.

Hope that helps.

 

[leadsled]

Your math on the P is correct. lbs x .44

1lb applied to 1000sq feet is 44lb per acre.

fyi, Get the test in acres is easy to convert. Also makes it easier to compare everyones test numbers.
If you google square feet to acres. A calculator is built into google search.
https://www.google.com/search?q=convert+1000+square+feet+to+acres

 

[leadsled]

50yard line, did you test your water??

Gotta make sure there is not some excess in your water source.

If you do have P in your water that would explain the buildup in your medium. Same goes for Na or another element and do not know what is in your water.

Hope that helps.

 

[milkyjoe]

And if you get a water test get alkalinity. With that number avenger might can calculate exactly how much acid you need

 

[milkyjoe]

And on ppm P...it is soil weight dependent. Peat mixes are gonna be around 1/4 weight of field soil...so ppm P is actually 4x higher than reported. That may be why peat is "low" in P

 

[50YardLine]

50yard line, did you test your water??

Gotta make sure there is not some excess in your water source.

If you do have P in your water that would explain the buildup in your medium. Same goes for Na or another element and do not know what is in your water.

Hope that helps.

All great information in your posts, thanks for the help.

I did test my water a couple times over the last couple crops. Each time the ph was 7.1-7.3 with 60-80ppm calcium, 5-15 ppm magnesium. Nothing else registered on the tests. I will be checking again in the spring, and will post up those numbers as well.

And if you get a water test get alkalinity. With that number avenger might can calculate exactly how much acid you need

I was told by Bill, that Sharron (I believe) could calculate the amount of acid to add to 3000 gallons with a water sample. That would be great, however I don't drain that tank everyday. In the spring that will last a good week, with a fresh flow of water topping off the tank with a float valve. So I imagine the ph will fluctuate daily if I don't keep it in check.

I looked into automatic dispensers with ph and ec meters, however they are around 3,500 for the type I would need.

 

[50YardLine]

If you did the neem cake then usually that provides plenty of N.
Seen that vary depending on source of neem cake. (neem resource vs dte) Would be wary of adding more N if the plants finished with plenty.

I feel it is ideal to test the biology, that way in time we can earn the right to not add N inputs and make the most of teaming with microbes, which them take advantage of nitrogen fixation.

If you only think of the chemical perspective will be missing out. Go to make sure the soil is staying aerobic and you are keeping things going in the right direction.

Another way to get an estimate is to use a solvita c02 test. Shows the soil respiration and can give estimates for N release.

You got high levels of aluminum, I was told that can be an indicator of low microbial activity in the soil.

Hope that helps.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this part of your post. I would assume my microbial population is great, considering the amount of teas and compost I use. I also did top dress with Neem cake around late July because I was battling bugs. So the high N, which is shown in two of my soil tests, could be why I am having signs of low microbial activity.

I do use a drip system, that feeds twice a day. Maybe next season I should consider daily drips, with the occasional drench. I wish I could find an accurate moisture meter.

 

[Humphry Davy]

All great information in your posts, thanks for the help.

I did test my water a couple times over the last couple crops. Each time the ph was 7.1-7.3 with 60-80ppm calcium, 5-15 ppm magnesium. Nothing else registered on the tests. I will be checking again in the spring, and will post up those numbers as well.




I was told by Bill, that Sharron (I believe) could calculate the amount of acid to add to 3000 gallons with a water sample. That would be great, however I don't drain that tank everyday. In the spring that will last a good week, with a fresh flow of water topping off the tank with a float valve. So I imagine the ph will fluctuate daily if I don't keep it in check.

I looked into automatic dispensers with ph and ec meters, however they are around 3,500 for the type I would need.

I didn't read anything before this page, but if you're getting higher levels of P on standard tests you might just have some coming available overtime, standard M3 test doesn't show ALL the P in the soil, if I recall from my past research a total acid digestion will show a lot more P than the M3 test.

As for determining acid amount for water this website tells you how much acid to reach a desired pH or alkalinity using either phosphoric, sulfuric, or nitric. Just have to input the waters pH and alkalinity.
https://extension.unh.edu/Agric/AGGHFL/alk_calc.cfm

 

[leadsled]

All great information in your posts, thanks for the help.

I did test my water a couple times over the last couple crops. Each time the ph was 7.1-7.3 with 60-80ppm calcium, 5-15 ppm magnesium. Nothing else registered on the tests. I will be checking again in the spring, and will post up those numbers as well.

I was told by Bill, that Sharron (I believe) could calculate the amount of acid to add to 3000 gallons with a water sample. That would be great, however I don't drain that tank everyday. In the spring that will last a good week, with a fresh flow of water topping off the tank with a float valve. So I imagine the ph will fluctuate daily if I don't keep it in check.

I looked into automatic dispensers with ph and ec meters, however they are around 3,500 for the type I would need.

Welcome. Not all water tests are equal. Do Get the water test from logan labs. Will have the proper information including the alkalinity.

Lots of different ways to do things. When looking at a ticket of few grand then look at dosatrons and maybe could spend less over what you were considering.

Can use a dosatron to do the acids, that way the h20 is treated. Then add the nutrients next.
The acid doser is pricier but still can automate it inline without a tank. If you did not check out the doser option. no electricity needed. dosatronusa just launched a new site.

Maybe best to send a pm or start a new thread. That way this thread stays on topic. Pretty sure could save some $$ or offer different options.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this part of your post. I would assume my microbial population is great, considering the amount of teas and compost I use. I also did top dress with Neem cake around late July because I was battling bugs. So the high N, which is shown in two of my soil tests, could be why I am having signs of low microbial activity.

I do use a drip system, that feeds twice a day. Maybe next season I should consider daily drips, with the occasional drench. I wish I could find an accurate moisture meter.

Doing compost teas does not mean that all is good. Lots of variables to that. The biology needs the proper habitat to live.

High N is also going to help to drive towards more bacterial dominant.

Bingo! There is where you ended up with more P in the soil!

The top dressing of neem cake. .5 to 1% of p in the neem.

Also explains how the you got the iron and zinc up there as well.

Check out these numbers on Neem cake:
N(Nitrogen 2.0% to 5.0%), P(Phosphorus 0.5% to 1.0%), K(Potassium 1.0% to 2.0%), Ca(Calcium 0.5% to 3.0%), Mg(Magnesium 0.3% to 1.0%), S(Sulphur 0.2% to 3.0%), Zn(Zinc 15 ppm to 60 ppm), Cu(Copper 4 ppm to 20 ppm), Fe (Iron 500 ppm to 1200 ppm), Mn (Manganese 20 ppm to 60 ppm).

Love to see the real % of the product used. That is all I could find from a quick search for % on neem cake.

Check out the IrroMESH system or smart irrigation controller add ons. That way irrigation timers do not water if a moisture sensor detects there is still moisture in the medium. Some controller have a rain sensor that is used to rig it up.

About time to start up a new thread for the advancements in irrigation automation and also smart control and dosing.

Smart bee makes a digital moisture meter that look pretty cool. Have not tried it out. Have used the cheapo moisture meters from troph and control wizard.

-Lead

 

[Humphry Davy]

The Blumat water tension sensor can't be beat for the cost, plus they measure soil tension rather than conductivity.

 

[EssentialGround]

@leadsled

@leadsled

 

[orechron]

Milky, last test on bulk peat came back @25ppm

 

[milkyjoe]

P or P2O5?

If it is P then once you take density into account you are gonna be right at sait's outer limit. If it is p2o5 you may have a little wiggle room

I was kinda afraid of that.

 

[orechron]

Sorry, P2O5...

 

[TheOutlawTree]

Does anyone have any updates on that new line there supposed to come out with, the biological advantage? If there were only 2 bottles of grow and 2 bottles of bloom, that would be sweet for someone like me who likes simplicity. I would consider just buying a cheaper soil mix to use as a base with lighter nutrients and just plan to fertigate all summer with AEA

 

[maxmurder]

Does anyone have any updates on that new line there supposed to come out with, the biological advantage? If there were only 2 bottles of grow and 2 bottles of bloom, that would be sweet for someone like me who likes simplicity. I would consider just buying a cheaper soil mix to use as a base with lighter nutrients and just plan to fertigate all summer with AEA

i didn't see that but they have the "planters solution" which is :
pht phos
sea stim
rejuvenate
photo mag
micro pak

all mixed together

the smallest size container is 5 gallons which is like 25 bucks cheaper than buying the 5- 1 gallon containers.

i got my new soil tests back but they are sideways and i don't know how to rotate once the get imported- they're rightside up on my ipod and when i import to the photos on my computer.

i don't get the sat paste but i think the soil report looks pretty good, anyone have opinions?

 

[TheOutlawTree]

I've since talked with gary from aea and he said if i want simplicity to just use the nutralive line with a couple other things they carry, as well as a couple products from tainio.

 

[odkin]

TheOutlawTree- can you be specific as to which others he suggested, along with which Tainio products?