Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[Foreverfamily]

Does any of AEA or Tanio products contain Fulvic Acid?

 

[milkyjoe]

Individual micros from AEA are chelated with fulvic acid. Other than that they use micronized leonardite. Tainio uses leonardite.

I like this fulvic acid https://customhydronutrients.com/ze...ic-acid-50-pound-p-429.html?cPath=118_289_290

 

[neverforget4/20]

I would not go to 1 ounce per gallon Sea Shield for foliar...I am in the 4 ml range.

I do not spray Ferti Nitro on a weekly basis, only when I see an actual need. I feel, for the quality of the plants, it is better to be a little bit behind on N than overdoing it

It all comes down to how good is your soil and ion balance more than amount of ions. Go too high on anything and you block something else.

I don't use Forage Blend but basically I replace the pht-p with Sea Shield plus I add Albion Metalosate Ca at 6 grams per gallon. I may also add individual micros when I know I am short...Mn or Zn mostly.

Basically with foliar I am looking to improve protein synthesis in the plant and jack up photosynthesis. I am not looking to feed the plant


edit...amino chelated Ca shows a better response on the Ca meter than either pht p or ca. And there may well be a new tech out there that is even better...but the amino stuff will work great for you

MJ when you say you hold off on ferti nitro until you see an actual need what exactly would that look like to you?

I have used a gram, or two of ferti nitro scratched into the surface of large containers when i observe a lull in development. It seems effective in quickly amping up the plants metabolism.

 

[milkyjoe]

As soon as I see lower leaves start to pale at all. I foliar it for faster uptake.

 

[maxmurder]

what's PPD?

 

[milkyjoe]

http://www.organicagproducts.com/

 

[maxmurder]

that's cool they have different npk's.

 

[TheOutlawTree]

Man, that sea shield... really reeks. I cant imagine spraying that stuff, i've only done a drench. I probably should have taken out my chew before i applied that stuff, lol.

Did AEA fix that problem with containers exploding? Some of my bottles get pretty fluffy, and i worry if i dont let air out each day it may happen.

 

[milkyjoe]

Hey...you come to like smelling like dead hooker pussy before the season is over.

They may never fix the exploding bottles. Rejuvenate is the worst.

 

[reppin2c]

I got a poncho that I wear when I foliar. When it gets warmer it really sucks wearing a poncho though. The sea shield doesn't taste any better then it smells either.

I just leave the cap loose. When I first get them I'll release the air real slow while holding the cap down....like when a car overheats. I think alot of the container explosions upon opening where from people shaking them then opening. I go open and release pressure, close, shake then use. I have some 6 month ago unopened nutra live that hasnt swelled.

From that subject I think AEA adds something to sea shield thats not in it in WA. Last year I got straight from the source. 2-2.5 gallon no swelling. 1 gallon of seashell over the winter and I'm releasing pressure.

 

[orechron]

The owner of pacificgro didn't say that AEA is adding anything but his body language suggested it. It also seemed like he wasn't fond of them not putting the pacificgro name on the bottle anywhere.

I think I'm done with AEA for the majority of my product requirements. My last indoor run made me realize that getting everything into the soil initially is more important than bottled extras. I still think that growers that have systems where they start off with promix or other base mixes will get great results from their products.

I'll second the low dose of sea shield. I overdo it occasionally and the plants don't look happy afterward.

 

[milkyjoe]

I don't like the shady feeling either. The most important ingredient in Rejuvenate is not listed either. Does not feel like the same company it was 2 yrs ago.

 

[Foreverfamily]

I'll second the low dose of sea shield. I overdo it occasionally and the plants don't look happy afterward.

how many mls per gallon do you use for foliar feeding with sea shield?

 

[leadsled]

Hey lead...you ever see any real evidence of myco infection of the roots in these lightweight, high P mixes? And true dreadlock roots?

I have not. I intend to use Trichoderma instead of myco in my high P mixes this summer and maybe even jump start roots with ammonium phosphate in my planting feed. We will see what we see.

I have seen the dreadlock roots. The p level are not insanely high. One farm had p205 up in the 1800-2000lb/ac range and was not showing dreadlock roots. The roots were also not taking into the soil. There were also issues with low cal and high mg making the soil very tight and lacking in air space.

Sending some roots in for an analysis this round. Can then respond to your question about myco infection. Gotta send it roots to test it.

RE: ammonium.
Why don't you work on getting the biology going to bring in ammonium from the air.

That way the soil is working toward building the proper ratios of Ammoniacal N to Nitrate N for healthy plants.

Earning the right to reduce N.

 

[orechron]

Lead if you have a good microscope you can chop up the fine roots and bleach them with a hot KOH solution, then stain with trypan blue or other dyes that stain chitin. This way the fungal structures (vesicles and arbuscules) are easily visible within the roots. I've been to lazy to get around to doing this.

Edit: Foreverfamily, I think my rate is around 15mL/gallon. I've done 1 and 2 ounces (30 & 60 mL) and burnt plants.

 

[milkyjoe]

Lead...I am adding 5 pots this summer that will have 110 lbs/acre P2O5. I am going to take them up to 150. I will use chicken shit in 3 to do it and Graeme Sait style fulvic acid chelated ammonium phosphate on the other 2. It will be applied as fertigation the first two weeks of the grow to use it also as a root starter.

I will try to infect the roots at every up potting with Bio Coat Gold. I will see whats up. My other pots are just going to get Root Shield when I transplant. Trichoderma is theoretically N fixing.

Re ammonia. It is my experience that no matter how good your microbe game you also have to achieve a much narrower C:N ratio than our soils naturally have. I use AS cause it is mostly 7x more N than meals and is cheap. Used properly it does not hurt microbes.

Once that ratio is achieved the little bit of Sea Shield I use is all the N needed. And I see it as fungal food rather than plant food. We have a grow in 20 gallon pots where we have amended no N for the last yr...it is with diy microbes vs using products. Plants are consistently 1/2 lb per pot.

Here is Hugh Lovell on the subject (he uses AS to achieve the C:N ratio) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDBO9CFuBiI

Now granted with all our organic matter you do not have to get all the way down to 10:1, but you cannot be at 50:1 and see it happen. At least I have not.

So yea, I am working towards that. What I don't know yet is if that is enough to grow 10 lb plants. I got a feeling you have to risk all of the problems associated high sap nitrate to push them that far

 

[orechron]

My indoor soil was delivered @ 100:1 C:N. Using mostly seeds meals and CaNO3 I worked it down to 50:1, then 20:1 over three grows. 20:1 is working great and by the looks of it won't require much more N this round. The cool thing is that the leaves below the canopy have sap levels of NO3- that max out my meter, but anything in the light is between 2500-3000ppm. As soon as I take the tops down to let the second cut fill out the newly illuminated foliage starts using that nitrate and the level drops. I was a little hesitant to use so much N to get that ratio down but if you have enough minerals/enzyme support your plants will be able to use it. I think the my game plan from here on out is to drop the C:N ratio to maybe 15:1, fertigate with AgSil when the meters tell me to, and spray micros, Ca, kelp.

 

[milkyjoe]

Right on...can I ask the details of how you use AgSil...how much per gallon, do you pH it?

What micros are you using? And what kelp...water soluble means high K but sea stim can just flat be rank from bottle to bottle?


edit...I love CaNO3 also. Gonna use it the first two weeks outdoors also. Nothing gets Ca in plants faster...well, from the soil anyways

 

[orechron]

Usually mix AgSil into 55 gallon barrels with fulvic acid or humacarb. I don't pH it because the soil is probably buffering fine but its one of the few things I do as a stand alone. How much depends on a what the last soil test showed and what the Horiba K meter shows. I usually don't go over 1/2tsp/gal. That Calcium silicate liquid I told you about is marketed as being stable at a wider pH range than AgSil but I haven't verified that.

For micros I do the sulfates into humacarb at 1/2 of what the analysis requires initially, then 1/8th doses every two weeks. This is not recommended but I wanted to get the numbers up in one cycle and figured that complexing them with humic would give me the leeway. It worked out ok; I only saw some B damage but what I discovered is that I must have been losing them via leaching because the ppms didn't all rise the same amount (Zn and Cu increased and stayed near target but Mn is still low).

I also used two new kelp products: PGR from international ag labs and Kelp Grow. The latter doesn't have a brand name on the bottle wtf? Well, it came from a guy who consults for veggie growers here and he said it was a good rooting/veg product. However, he thinks Sea Stim is a better flowering kelp product.

 

[cannascholar]

Deep at 3 weeks using mostly aea and Albion ca and multiminreal in mendo mix.Seeing slow development so did some photomag, pht bloom, and sea shield at around 20 ml per gallon drench. Also some hypercap at 1-2 ml and pht k 3-5 ml. Root aphids have been kept at bay with pfr-97 and lots of sea shield.