Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[milkyjoe]

If by pep c you really mean molly...yep perfectly normal brah...flow with it

None of that stuff will kill flea beetles instantly. Over time you might build enough sugar in the sap to kill them. Spray a couple times a week for a while

 

[Cep]

I remember seeing big plants in one of your pics and I was wondering why the spacing was so close. I figured maybe you didn't have as much room and still wanted plant numbers but it sounds like you prefer planting like that. What benefits have you noticed from it?

There were some that I threw out in a tight spaced row bc I didn't have much space but they did really well. Normally I'd go for the type of spacing you'd see in Milky's, Epic's, or other gardens where there isn't as much shading.

Cep was right about that. A high sugar diet sets you up for leaky gut...sets you up for nasty bacteria...sets you up for hating me if you eat pep.

Paleo is the business, but when your will breaks for pizza or some other processed shit you end up paying for it big time.

Hence...forget I mentioned it.

Sea crop though will jack up enzyme activity in you just like a plant. Just dilute it...cause it tastes horrible on its own

I really like to push the envelope with the sea crop. 1:100 dilution rate into iv drip ftw

Milky, I did do some KSil even on the higher K soils. That is what drove my sap pH up. I only used around 2 lbs on 3000 sq ft of raised beds... From now on I think rejuve is the only K going into foliar.

I got my shipment the other day everything was fine- the pht phos was a little on swole and the sea stim was round as fuck but not blown out. here's what i got:
micropak
sea crop
sea stim
photomag
pht cal
pht phos
pht potassium
pep c

i did a root drench with everything but the pep c in my dep 2 days ago, everything looks fine.
i read back somewhere someone asking about spraying off the residue on the leaves after foliars and it was recommended to leave it on for the biologicals. i'm having a minor problem with cucumber beetles turning a few of my wifi leaves into doilies in the gh but on my girlfriends outdoor blue dreams they are goin nuts- i squish several a day.
will a foliar of the above products make the beetles sick if they munch on em?
i was getting ready to spray with spinosad but don't want to cuz the plants are really stoked and i don't want to slow em down by coating em with any pesticides + yucca.
by the way milky- i just did 2 shots of the pep c and i'm seeing rainbow trails, is that normal?

Hey do you know what your sap pH is? If its high then cations might not be a great idea. Forms of foliar P, S, N should drop sap pH (insect guts are alkaline which is part of the reason high sap pH is favorable to them). The thing about this that troubles me is when I'm trying to lower sap pH I don't know when it becomes too much nitrogen. I still do some photomag because I'm worried that all the N would just float around as nitrate.

 

[milkyjoe]

Salute molybdate? Some kind of amino chelated/conplexed anion with no cation attached? Phosphoric acid?

Silicate should have balanced k.

Damn I wish we could do sap analysis

 

[jd123]

When I saw signs of russets my heart sank. Been going hard of the foliars. I spray my plants with just kelp and yucca 3-4 days per week as well..I dont even know if Its effective or not but I've just done it for years so I keep doing it and the plants seem to like it.

Hey Joe thats a jager. Did yours grow differently than that? They dont get huge but yield surprisingly well.

 

[reppin2c]

Sea crop does taste like shit and I can drink ever clear straight. Both give me the funny face but I do feel better after the sea crop. I started giving my chicken sea crop water and man those eggs are frickin amazing.

Has anybody checked they're foliar ppm? Seems to me 500 is a pretty good pump em point have gone to 700 but wouldn't do it on lighter feeders.

I can edit now lol milky Im pretty sure I know your area. I like that channel 8 weather just enough to check the noaa

 

[chef]

Thx cep & hey jd. Lookin good

I hit each hole yesterday with...
#1.5 Gypsum granules
#1 Dolomite
#1 Humic shale ore

The day before...
5gals 1/2 strength N & P (fish hydrosylate & superbat)
2Tbsp Endo
1tbl Endo/Ecto

Going to hit them w/2Tbsp Endo/Ecto again today, after weaslin in the top dressings again.
Crowns are comin back qwik!
Lookin like a solid run of respectable mediums.
Not bad for losing july's vigorous veg.
On the upside... The less dense canopies & huge rootballs = blazed uber-quality chodes!

Are you guys shooting for Albrecht baseline #'s???

Last thing. Isn't there a Tainio lecture in Or or WA real soon?
I think FE mentioned it?

Thx again guys

 

[milkyjoe]

Hey Joe thats a jager. Did yours grow differently than that? They dont get huge but yield surprisingly well.

Every time you start with hey joe I think you are gonna ask me where I am going with that gun in my hand. I got my Jager off to a horrible start (totally my fault) so no it does not look anywhere near as good as yours. I do see the potential for yield though. It is going to form really long colas and they are going to get big. I wish I had done a better job with it.

How is the strength? I have heard good taste but maybe not a lot of power?

 

[milkyjoe]

Are you guys shooting for Albrecht baseline #'s???

Thx again guys

Absolutely I shoot for Albrecht ratios. That is the first thing I concentrate on. And while I am at it I will just share my basic philosophy.

I had the opportunity to work with the guys that created the Toyota Production System yrs ago. Specifically Mr. Nakao. Every single piece of their philosophy had to have a positive effect on quality, productivity, safety and what they called environment. So, for example, if someone came up with something that improved quality by not productivity that concept was set aside and work was done to come up with something that made both better.

Probably nobody here knows what I am fixing to say but their 5S system is considered a house keeping standard for companies all over the world today. They hated that characterization...always would bitch about how stupid any fucker was that thought that. It was something designed to do the four things I mentioned...a side effect was house keeping. Anyways I digress.

But the same can be true for plants...and Kempf actually articulates that philosophy. And that is what originally drew me to him so much.

Soil and plant are one...anything you do affects both so do nothing that improves on but hurts the other.

So after balancing the soil the next focus for me is biology. I love Tainio stuff but lots of ways to address it if you prefer, teas, worms, etc. On top of that I use a weekly soil drench designed to improve biology...for me that is Sea Shield, Rejuvenate, Sea Crop and Pepzyme. Occasionally some alfalfa ferment, a rice tea, Spectrum. And if my soil balance was off I would add whatever mineral was missing.

I also use biology on my leafs. Micro 5000, PZ 1000 from Tainio or occasionally some kombucha.

My foliars are designed to do three things:

1) I look to maximize enzyme activity in the plant. So I straight up use Gary Rs recommendation...1 pint sea crop, sea stim and micros per acre...every time. This has the added benefit of saving the plant a ton of energy as it assembles long carbon chains. Which allows it to send more liquid carbon to the soil in the form of sugars, proteins or fatty acids. And those things feed the soil biology. Both the plant and soil benefit.

2) I look to slightly improve photosynthetic activity...not to the point where sap pH rises and attracts insects, but to the point where I maintain 6.4 all the way through. Photomag and Sea Shield are my favorite tools.

3) To correct mineral imbalances. I cannot use sap analysis so I have to rely on visual clues which are admittedly a few weeks behind the curve.

So exactly what I would do would be totally dependent on how well the original soil is balanced. I assume with our high carbon soils I can make biology work in every case.

Anyways...that is just me, take it for what you think it is worth.

 

[milkyjoe]

http://blog.nutri-tech.com.au/diy-microbe-inoculum/

Read as many of these poats as you can stand...but this is rice tea...bonus hint, pepzyme speeds up ant microbe reaction

 

[maxmurder]

cep- no i don't have a ph meter made for sap, i have a couple nice bluelab ph meters but i don't think they're able to do sap (the probe is round), if so lemme know.
otherwise i found this laquatwin meter on pikes site that has a flat area to put samples on i was gonna order it unless someone has a better recommendation.

www.pikeagri.com/component/virtuema...-meters/laquatwin-ph-meter-75-detail?Itemid=0

 

[maxmurder]

milky- do you have problems with botrytus or pm in the desert?

 

[Cep]

Max, grab a bunch of fans and run them through a juicer, then dip the pH probe. Your sap pH is probably 7.5-8 right now. Phospohoric acid and something like ferti nitro power or pure protein dry in a foliar.

 

[jd123]

Puts me down man. Couple hits, an episode of lost (I just got nexflix lol I've never had a TV)...lights out. The taste is real good. I don't smoke often but the jag is my choice when I do. Made some goo/jager shatter and it came out boss. The shops up here couldn't get enough of the GooMeister.

Next year I'm going to really focus a lot of time on LST so it should respond real well to that. I'd love to get jager seeds because of the spring bloom issues. If that wasn't part of the equation it would be just about all I grew..it always sells first.

Every time you start with hey joe I think you are gonna ask me where I am going with that gun in my hand. I got my Jager off to a horrible start (totally my fault) so no it does not look anywhere near as good as yours. I do see the potential for yield though. It is going to form really long colas and they are going to get big. I wish I had done a better job with it.

How is the strength? I have heard good taste but maybe not a lot of power?

 

[milkyjoe]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wFEIeTn-NhA

I have never grown berries...but holy shit. I like to think I recognize a healthy plant

 

[TheSilverMullet]

I juiced some leaves and my ph pen showed 6.2

That's in the realm, right?

Overall I'm happy with how things are looking although there's a couple getting munched by leaf hoppers or cucumber beetles or something. Nothing terrible but it bothers me and makes me think those two plants aren't as healthy as they could be.

 

[milkyjoe]

Here is my thought...not a fact cause I don't know for certain. But see what you think.

6.4 is where you want to be so it is safe to spray base cations weekly...ca, mg and k.

So here is my thought. Your plant may not be efficiently turning your nutrients into long carbon chains and protective compounds or nice thick phospholipid layers.

Increasing enzyme activity may be what you need. So sea crop, kelp and micros should also be a part of the foliar

 

[TheSilverMullet]

Cep recommended photomag, which I've done a couple times this season but not regularly enough perhaps.

I'll have to look into sea crop. Will do sea stim/photomag/sea shield spray today.

Weather has been cloudy for almost a week, finally some sunshine today.

 

[Cep]

I can't remember if you posted soil results but excess N is my guess because I rarely see a test showing a lack of cations. Its always too much, especially K. pH might be low if your plants aren't turning the N into protein. Unless the base saturation in your soil for Calcium isn't above 70 you might want to add that too.

 

[leadsled]

If foliar feed of cations are not bringing up your sap ph and or brix.

My soil test showed high nitrate was high and the ammonium was next to nothing.

After trying photomag, individual cations (pht cal /k and both). Tried the AEA tomato foliar feed recipe, sap ph kept dropping and brix was not improving.

Hit em with hypercap, micropak and sea crop foliar.
The ph and brix went up.

Got the idea when reviewing the AEA nutrient interaction chart. Shows NH4 as a cation.
Raising NH4 also increases the ratio of ammonium to nitrate as far as the total nitrogen %.

Which is related to pest and disease resistance. The sap analysis seminar got into ratios of nitrate to total nitrogen.

Total Nitrogen is all of these combined.
Nitrate, Ammonium, Amino Acids, and proteins, Urea.

example:
Total N: 1200ppm
Nitrate 1500ppm
N from nitrate 339ppm (=1500 / 4.43)
Ratio of nitrate out of total n
339/1200 = 28%

Suggestion for strawberries was to keep below 70% nitrate in glasshouse and below 40% nitrate in broadacre. Looking forward to when we can do complete sap analysis.


Just wanted to share something that worked for me in that situation. Hope that helps.

 

[maxmurder]

Max, grab a bunch of fans and run them through a juicer, then dip the pH probe. Your sap pH is probably 7.5-8 right now. Phospohoric acid and something like ferti nitro power or pure protein dry in a foliar.

great fuckin idea but i am no longer allowed to use the juicer after i fucked our last one up a few years ago when i was going to cure everything with cbd juiced leaves and somehow broke that one.
i got my new pen today and have a brix of 11 and a ph of 6.8
i bought some whey protein powdered this should lower ph?
(stupid question) i always lower my ph to 5.8-6.0 before feeding cuz the majority of my media is coco and perlite, does lowering the ph of nutritution lower sap ph?
just tryin to learn here.