Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[Avenger]

ash is not just potassium, it is just as it sounds, the ash left after burning the organic matter. So anything that does not go up in smoke is included in the ash content.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_(analytical_chemistry)

 

[milkyjoe]

Cep...what wetting agent do you use? And how much?

 

[Backyard Farmer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQTWf_qpLK8

 

[Humphry Davy]

thanks good info.

Some of the john frank followers fold the canna trimmings into used soil or "cooking" media and they refer to the practice as "tuning" the media.

I am not familiar with john frank...do you have a link. I do the same though...if I don't use it, it goes back in the soil. It owee me those minerals back

All my fans and unused greens go right back on top of the soil as well, if I don't I notice the C:N ratio gets too high and I have to use a ton of feather meal.....and my woman isn't too fond of the Homefront smelling like a chicken coop lol

 

[milkyjoe]

Do you worry those feathers are factory farmed...antibiotic loaded?

What c:n are you trying to maintain

 

[FatherEarth]

http://horticulture.oregonstate.edu/system/files/Clubroot final report Heinrich Stone .pdf

 

[Humphry Davy]

Do you worry those feathers are factory farmed...antibiotic loaded?

What c:n are you trying to maintain

I get them from kelp4less and they claim:

Product designation:

Natural (This product is a candidate for organic certification. To ensure the lowest price, Kelp4Less has chosen not to register this product.)

 

[Humphry Davy]

I'm aiming for 30:1 for now since my C:N is around 45:1 then going to work my way down to 10:1 and see how the plants respond, plus I'd like the soils to be well balanced before I ramp up N.

 

[milkyjoe]

I too am afraid to take that leap. I used 20 lbs of protein (alfalfa meal) in a yard of peat based soil and ec was 1.2...year and a half later, still 1.2. It burned roots

 

[Humphry Davy]

I'm wondering if the alfalfa breaks down faster than the feather meal due to the A. Meal having plant proteins as the feather consist of animal proteins...not that I have the knowledge to tell you with any certainty the differences between the two but I'm sure someone lurking surely does.

 

[Cep]

Milky,

Yucca and Coco-wet. I have sm-90 too but I think that will just be used for foliar from now on. Coco-wet instructions say a tsp or fraction of tsp/gal I can't remember but I bumped that to 3 tsp for the keystone soil and my own mix which is stupid hydrophobic.

 

[milkyjoe]

Thanks Cep.

On alfalfa. What I see from personal experiments. If load minerals and some compost but no extra N/protein ec is around 0.3...or soil activity on my hanna meter. You drive it up from there with N amends...ptotein/manure/synthetics.

But the more you add, the higher it goes. And you ain't anywhere near 10:1 c:n.

No clue what to make of that...but I bet there is some lesson to be learned there

 

[Humphry Davy]

the rate at which the N becomes ionic would be a guess? If you get a C:N test on a slow N release material and the same test on a quick release it would show the same if I'm not mistaken (I assume this because labs use actual density for testing C:N, so I assume it's a total test). The ec would be higher on the more soluble quick release N even though the total N on both samples are the same. So decomposition rates are important in regards to maintaining EC.

As for 10:1, the reason I'm starting at 30:1 is because as OM breaks down some C is released as CO2. Assuming small N loss, I may slowly work my way down near that with no more N inputs. In my excel program, If your C:N is greater than 30:1 it recommends enough N to get you there, if it's below 30:1, then it aims for 10:1, but with application limits to ensure the N is added slowly overtime because the C:N should lower with no N inputs once it's near 30:1 so no need to rush getting to 10:1

 

[milkyjoe]

Have you seen that happen or is it theory?

Photosynthesis produces c6h12o6 and some that (depending on plant health) is being exuded through the roots. So carbon is also being returned to the soil. it is how the carbon got there in the first place...no? Ancient sunlight.

Is feather meal your only N amendment?

 

[Humphry Davy]

Can't say on my own soils as I have only recently began monitoring C:N, but I know this happens as compost processes. I would guess the size of your plants compared to the amount of soil per plant would tell you if the C:N will decrease over time. What I mean is if the plant is small relative to the mass of the soil its C inputs would be minimal when compared to the C output of the soil itself. Time will tell as the data piles up.

On a side note, I'm considering getting total testing done maybe once every year just to monitor that as well.

 

[Humphry Davy]

I was using small amounts of calcium nitrate but cut that out a few months ago as my Ca levels on all my soils are adequate or slightly high, so now I'm just watering w RO water (my tap has too high Na to use). So now I'm just using feather meal and will starting putting all fans right into the soil rather than compost bins outside.

 

[Humphry Davy]

Originally when the soils were mixed I did use neem. I might add feather meal to that recipe after seeing the C:N ratio on a freshly mixed batch....43.5:1

 

[FatherEarth]

Nah

Nah

another testament that supports not using compost!

this is the compost that was used in the following test results @ 30% of the base mix..., i received this after the fact btw...Glad I did not pay for this batch!

 

[Avinash.miles]

great info in this thread, thanks FE

 

[milkyjoe]

FE...start driving the Ca up. Some like 3/4 calcarb or oyster and 1/4 gypsum. As the Ca fills the cec sites it will bump the k off. Some zeolite would then sequester the k vs losing it. Seent it happen myownself.

Then microbes weekly and transmute the K.

Depending on how the plants look take your time