Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[Fymby131]

General info about my use with AEA products:

short overview: me likey

Hi. I ordered aea products and have been using them for a few weeks now. Currently I spray daily; soaking leaves till runoff(both top and bottom) with a total concentrate dilution rate of 1oz-1.25oz per gal. I am using sea shield, sea stim, pht phos, photo mag. To get a final dilution rate of 1oz per gal, thats obviously 1/4 oz of each product per gal(NOT 1oz each). The 1:1:1:1 ratio of the products seems to be working well. Though I do tend to go a little heavier on the kelp and shield which is where I hit the 1.25/gal mark. My reasoning for this(may be a dumb one lol) is, if I remember correctly, kempf talks about the 4-1 ratio of N to Mg to form Chlorophyll. So, I try to up the sea shield to get a bit closer to that ratio(in percentages) with the N in sea shield and mg in photo mag. And as far as the kelp, i figure kelp all around kicks ass in general, so why not? Once I started to get into the 1.33+ total oz per gal dilution rate i started to get leaf cupping on a couple of my strains. I have experimented with running fewer products and upping their individual concentrations to achieve the final 1-1.25oz per gal rate with no ill effects. I also throw in my surfactant(wetting agent) at about a mil per gal(IMO, it takes a little more the first spray or two, then after that, 1-1.5 mil/gal works fine). I use thermX 70. Its a yucca extract. I don't count that in the final 1oz/gal dilution rate as it doesn't really have any nutrient value(maybe a few micros and other phytonutrients/organic compounds from yucca).


My AEA product question:
I have been considering the micropak because it is in the original "cannabis" formula that they sent me but I question if it is necessary. My reasoning is that I am already spraying the pht phos which is rock phos and that has micros. And I'm also already spraying kelp and ocean water(in the photo mag) which also have micros and trace. I was wondering if any of you guys familiar with aea products could tell me if I should add micropak to my lineup or not, and why?

Thank you

 

[milkyjoe]

Imo that depends on your soil. If it is stupid high P like most then Hortinova (the sap analysis guys) show pretty conclusively that it will tie up micros. In that case spraying some is a good idea cause kelp and sea crop provide ultra traces but not high enough concentration of micros.

And out of curiosity...did you get introduced to aea at a trailer park boy type grow?

 

[Fymby131]

Thank you. Ill get my soil P levels checked out and go from there.

And out of curiosity...did you get introduced to aea at a trailer park boy type grow?

Am I being mocked lol? I will say my greenhouse is no state-of-the-art piece of engineering but imo its way better than a bubbles shopping cart flipped over with plastic on it lol.

I am new to foliar feeding. I just started last year and am still learning. last year I used a basic liquid fish and kelp. After seeing impressive results I dove into the topic a bit more. My most profound expierence was when all the the bind weed around the edges of my greenhouse had aphids and my cannabis had none. The few aphids I did find on my plants were dead right where they tried to attack my plants. This may be the norm to some but I would say not most. After searching a little bit, I found AEA being discussed in the big plant thread and looked into it.

another noob Q: why are the cannabis specific instructions so high in P for the foliar recipe? It calls for 2 qt. per acre of hyperCaP(which is really high in P) and an additional 1qt. per acre of pht phos. I roughly understand that P is important for photosynthesis and storing energy but to that extent?

 

[milkyjoe]

Thank you. Ill get my soil P levels checked out and go from there.





Am I being mocked lol? I will say my greenhouse is no state-of-the-art piece of engineering but imo its way better than a bubbles shopping cart flipped over with plastic on it lol.

I am new to foliar feeding. I just started last year and am still learning. last year I used a basic liquid fish and kelp. After seeing impressive results I dove into the topic a bit more. My most profound expierence was when all the the bind weed around the edges of my greenhouse had aphids and my cannabis had none. The few aphids I did find on my plants were dead right where they tried to attack my plants. This may be the norm to some but I would say not most. After searching a little bit, I found AEA being discussed in the big plant thread and looked into it.

another noob Q: why are the cannabis specific instructions so high in P for the foliar recipe? It calls for 2 qt. per acre of hyperCaP(which is really high in P) and an additional 1qt. per acre of pht phos. I roughly understand that P is important for photosynthesis and storing energy but to that extent?

no, no, no...I thought I knew you sorry. No mocking...hopefully this thread aint about that at all. Honestly...I thought you might be someone that visited my (trailer park boy grow) last yr Sorry bro...no bad intent at all.

 

[Fymby131]

oh lol.. ya I was super confused about the trailer park boy grow comment. I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. But the only thing I could figure out was mockery(considering their grows are usually something to laugh at). Which is fine. I can totally laugh at myself. I usually am doing something worth laughing at. I figure, the only difference between being "laughed at" and being "laughed with" is me laughing. But ya, its cool. no worries.

NEways... So far for the past few days I have actually increased my dilution rate to a consistent 1.33 oz per gallon. Here in Colorado the weather has been(up until the past few days) solid clouds and rain for 3 weeks. Very unusual. At the time I tried the 1.33oz per gal rate before some strains seemed to be a little unhappy, but now that the sun is out they are looking good at that dose. Apperantly, the rate at which they photosynthesize determines their max dilution rate for foliar applications. Either that or they just got "used to it". But my guess is that the higher their metabolism the more they can take(obviously, to a point). This seems like common sense now that I think about it but honestly I haven't considered that before. Last year was normal CO weather(sun all day everyday) and once I topped out my dosage I never had a reason to back off. I would like to test 1.5 oz per gallon rate but there may be more clouds and rain on the way so I may hold off for a while.
I am also using Micro 5000 from AEA. I like it so far. Haven't used it for very long, but am curious to see how the beneficial microbes in it perform in foliar applications. I was skeptical at first about microbes being beneficial(in terms of actually enhancing plant metabolism/health/growth rate) on the leaves because of UV exposure and lack of constant moisture. But looking into epiphytic and endophytic bacteria and fungi I have become more aware about them. Here is some info about them if interested. I don't know if you really need to apply them or if they will find their way there on their own, but a direct application can't hurt I assume. Plus its a kelp spray and like I said earlier, IMO kelp= awesome. I take a break from the other recipe I use, to spray this by itself once a week. I currently use a dilution rate 1/2 gram(1/8 teaspoon) per gallon. There are no small-scale application rates on the Micro5000 package. I got that rate off of a similar product I found at my local grow shop. The product that I thought was comperable to Micro5000 was this. It has directions specifically for foliar application(which is the rate I'm using). And yes, I tested to make sure 1/8tsp did actually equal 1/2 gram of the Micro5000. I figured if the density was the same and the NPK was nearly the same, the application rates for that product was a good place to start. At that dilution rate there are no adverse effects(even on cloudy days lol) and could probably be pushed higher from my observations.

I am seriously still curious as to why the P levels in the aea cannabis foliar recipe are so high and if I should up the ratio of my PHt Phos. Even at the 1:1:1:1 product ratio I'm using, P is by far the most dominant element. But the recipe they offered me, the P levels seem to be through the roof.

 

[Humphry Davy]

I use micro and pz1000 at 1/2 teaspoon per gal weekly. I did some conversions from the label to determine that.

Determine the square footage of your garden, convert that to acres, then use their application rate on the label. And use whatever volume of water it takes to cover all the plant.

I noticed something odd about my pepzyme clear, it almost appears as if there is a cloudy organic material in the bottle, perhaps growth? I may have accidentally used the same eye dropper for the pepzyme clear and my photomag, anyone els notice this cloudy material in their pepzyme clear?

 

[reppin2c]

This order seems to be thinner then last years products. Not a bad thing just seems like I was getting a real bang for the buck since they where thick.

 

[FatherEarth]

Im finding that if a plant gets started off with too much nitrate, K, and low calcium, its hard to reverse the momentum once you start seeing the ill effects.

Transplanting into better soil, foliar feeding to correct issues, it still takes a while to get a handle on things.

Dont make the mistake of foliar feeding Rejuvenate if you have fungal issues. I accidentally sprayed a soil drench as a foliar, and Ive never seen mold colonize a leaf surface like this before.

Ill see about getting a microscope shot of the leaf. It was totally white with a mat of mycelium in two days.

On one hand that could be a good thing if you added the right microbes to the foliar and didnt already have an existing fungal issue...

....that is the main reason I dont like to run cuts someone else made.

Id much rather mom it first and make my own clones so you dont start off down the wrong path out of the gate. .
Mad frustrating when you know the plants would be fine if they would have started properly. . .

 

[FatherEarth]

Anyone know the exact amount per gallon for E-Scent Shield?
Ive been sticking to 4-5 drops max per gallon without any burn.
7 drops I see burn usually. .
Today I added a drop to a leaf under the microscope... The Spreading action of the adjuvant is pretty spectacular. Not to mention seeing pests freak out and run the other direction when it starts spreading across the leaf. . Potent to say the least...

 

[milkyjoe]

FE...do you foliar feed pepzyme? That shit is for real, if you had bad fungus watch out. Wanna see what pepzyme can do...do you make kombucha...add a couple drops pep and watch.

And conversely...start a plant in a balanced soil and it becomes hard to mess it up. I gave up on bagged soils for starting shit

 

[FatherEarth]

no I dont use pepzyme in foliar.. Good to know though.. I agree when they start off right they stay on track.. I too have ditched the bagged soil. I found that I can go straight from clones into my soil mix with no burn.. Plants take off like they should dont miss a beat..

So the last soil mix I sent off. The reformulated with zero compost except 25% EWC 25% Perlite 50% peat with a laundry list of amendments came back at least within range on the K as I had hoped, still shy on Ca and the Tcec seemed rather low to be 50% peat mix..
This mix had 10 lbs of oyster shell flour
and 10 lbs of gypsum on top of 9 lbs of amendments.
My ERGS meter hits .74 with this one...

Sodium was high Im assuming due to the oyster shell, I will be adding spectrum extra to break down the Na.
...

.

 

[reppin2c]

Ca and micros are low but look at that K. Now theres something you could work with.

 

[FatherEarth]

Ca and micros are low but look at that K. Now theres something you could work with.

Thats what im saying! Micros an easy fix and Ca Ill address with ag lime before planting. Overall a much better analysis than the last one... Next mix should nail it..

 

[FatherEarth]

I wonder how much it matters that this mix was never wetted before i sent it in for testing? The mixing co does not wet it, it comes what seems like evenly mixed and well fluffed. The 2 yard totes were 1200 lbs or less. Overall pretty happy with the mixing company and they are fair priced and had my order in 3 days. Ill be ordering from them as long as im in Oregon.

 

[Avinash.miles]

I wonder how much it matters that this mix was never wetted before i sent it in for testing? The mixing co does not wet it, it comes what seems like evenly mixed and well fluffed. The 2 yard totes were 1200 lbs or less. Overall pretty happy with the mixing company and they are fair priced and had my order in 3 days. Ill be ordering from them as long as im in Oregon.

only one way to find out, wet it and test again.... right? perhaps ask the lab if it would make a difference?

 

[jd123]

Im gonna read up on this thread tmrw.

Nice indoor F.E.

What part of oregon are you in? Im from southern OR but I noticed you had dep and indoor pics mostly so probably on the coast or up north. Ill be asking you some AEA questions soon here.

 

[milkyjoe]

So in a back yard that gets chickens turned loose every day...no city weed police so mucho diversity of plants. We sprayed 12 ml of sea shield in 260 gallons of water on the yard plus some other aea stuff to jack photosynthesis.

Anyways 2 weeks later fruiting fungal bodies are raping that soil. No doubt in my mind we will totally change the character of that soil in a year.

Just amazing what this stuff can do.

 

[jd123]

MJ what sprayer do you prefer? Im more recently getting into foliar programs. Ive used harvest moon aka as nectar for the gods for a long time. Their products work great but on large scale outdoor Gardens you spend ridiculous amounts of money even when buying wholesale 55 gallon barrels.

Soil drench organic low npk ferts that use 2-3 tbls per gallon when your routinely feeding 1000+ gallons, Ive learned is not much bang for your buck.

EVERYBODY in my circle uses harvest moon...I cant help but think the nursery owner we all get it from is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[milkyjoe]

I use a fogg it spray nozzle hooked to a hose and pump.

http://www.dramm.com/html/main.isx?sub=425

 

[FatherEarth]

Yep i use the same spray nozzle and or an atomizer to apply mine. The foggit works best to get under the leaf surface...