Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[milkyjoe]

Hey BYF...if I foliar does that product ever cross over into the xylem...or does it just remain in the phloem (and where the phloem takes it of course)?

And even if there is such a thing as "pit" would it not be better to put things important to xylem transport in the soil vs foliar...say sulfer, B, Si and maybe to a lesser extent Ca?

 

[Backyard Farmer]

You're correct. There's no way to foliar enough to correct having deficit in the soil. The soil must be balanced.

When you provide elements that increase the rate of photosynthesis or have a climate where photosynthesis is driven hard, dry high uv index high wind hot and full sun exposure you can add more support via foliar so the plants don't get deficient ...

That's how I went at it this year and am pulling in one of my best results to date.

I also drenched the patches monthly with blends designed to increase microbial activity.

The relationship between soil microbes and plants is facinating

 

[milkyjoe]

The question then becomes...if you look at say aea's tomato program...there is B in the transplant soln but after that none in the fertigation. All in the foliar. I wonder if it would not be more effective in the fertigation.

Be curious to see if there is B in BA.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

in the majority of plant species, B distribution between plant organs and the symptoms of B deficiency and toxicity indicate that B has restricted mobility. Nevertheless, B is present in phloem and is retranslocated in phloem, often in sufficient amounts to satisfy the demands of developing sink regions that do not readily transpire.

In species that produce significant amounts of polyols in source leaves, boron is readily translocated as a consequence of the formation of B-polyol complexes. Boron is thus unique among the essential plant nutrients in that it has restricted mobility in many plant species and is freely mobile in others. No other element is known to vary so greatly in mobility.

The retranslocation of B has a profound effect on the expression of B deficiency and toxicity symptoms, and the approaches needed to diagnose and correct B imbalances.

.

 

[milkyjoe]

Which, fair enough, could argue for tiny amounts of B in the foliar. Still if you believe hugh lovel, the big majority of b, along with si, goes towards forming that capillary highway in the xylem on which all other nutients ride in.

Just to prove it to meself ima take the B out of photomag and add it to rejuvenate.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

I believe in pushing the envelope and finding out what's real.

It's an esoteric journey and I see truth in Albrecht lovel reams sait tainio and many others,,,it's just the order of operations in application of those truths and their interplay as well as the relative time period that theories and methods were formed.

 

[c-ray]

probably because B is ubiquitous amongst soils and amendments, best to see if there is an actual need

soil B above 2ppm is said to control fungi (and inhibit seed germination), perhaps that is a clue why milky

 

[milkyjoe]

I have yet to see a soil test over 1 ppm...top soil or peat based. And every grow it drops and needs to be replaced. All I am wondering is if I should put it in the soil to build sap pressure

 

[StrongBeef]

An amazing conference, in which I got a chance to meet some of you guys. I am waiting for the dvd of the conference to write extensive notes from, and once all the information is compiled I will post up in this thread. Getting a chance to talk with John Kempf for hours one on one was amazing, I almost shit myself when he decided to eat lunch with me the first day. Guy has a beautiful mind, and I am more convinced than ever about AEA and their approach to gardening and healing the world. Anybody going to the acres USA conference? I am for sure!

One quick thing I got to ask John Kempf directly about (one of many) is the AEA PM and Spider mite remedy. He said those were formulated as a hail Mary on a crop that was on the edge of death from infestation. He said the remedy didn't even work on the crop mentioned and wouldn't recommend it as a fight against pm or mites. The answer to how to fight those diseases are clear, but the remedy posted in this thread is not the answer. Hope that helps somebody.

Can't tell you what a joy it was to talk to people that HAVE the answers through years of research and testing. They are willing to share what they know and the positive vibes from the conference still has my skin tingling. I seriously haven't slept more than 4 hours since the conference, too excited.

 

[milkyjoe]

http://journal.ashspublications.org/...3/441.full.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=phn...rition&f=false

http://www.sefs.washington.edu/class...nslocation.pdf

From me buddy Avenger...looks like foliar B ain't a bad idea.

 

[StrongBeef]

Those links didn't work for me.

 

[FatherEarth]

yea me either....

 

[milkyjoe]

Doh...let me try a different way...hold on:

http://journal.ashspublications.org/content/128/3/441.full.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=phnp-H1XeBkC&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&dq=phloem+to+xylem+transfer+of+foliar+nutrition&source=bl&ots=A0LQEnDYJc&sig=-ZFLu1puzLv0ApFoPeSh6-V1Tbk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fMhfVKr4JoyeyATVzYKgCg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=phloem%20to%20xylem%20transfer%20of%20foliar%20nutrition&f=false

http://www.sefs.washington.edu/classes.esc.401/Biology162Lectures/Lect13Translocation.pdf

 

[StrongBeef]

http://www.amazon.com/Tuning-Nature-Philip-S-Callahan/dp/0911311696
This book is on the inferred signal plants and animals give out which is what attracts bugs to plants.

Mineral Nutrition and Plant Disease
http://www.amazon.com/Mineral-Nutrition-Disease-Lawrence-Datnoff/dp/0890543461

http://www.amazon.com/Immunity-Animals-Nucleic-Molecular-Biology/dp/3540739297


All books recommended by John Kempf.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

You can raise soil B

With http://www.jhbiotech.com/Product Labels/WA pdf files/Biomin Boron.pdf

 

[milkyjoe]

I actually have it high enough right now I cannot use Photomag and Micropak at the same time without tip burn. I actually replaced MicroPak with Albions micro package since it does not have B.

It really depends on exactly what is in your soil and the level of microbe activity that dictates your foliar. But if your soil is good tiny amounts of foliar applied daily just maintains slight luxury levels and the plant starts to feed the soil. You can literally see exactly what John describes happening.

Right now on two separate grows my inputs are no more than 1 ml per light per week of anything. Dark green, waxy leaves

 

[milkyjoe]

10/28/14....rejuvenate arrived perfectly. Not even a hint of swelling. Makes me wonder if it is any good at all

 

[StrongBeef]

I talked to the AEA crew at the conference and complained a little about the explosive bottles. They told me they fixed the problem, and haven't had any complaints for a couple months. I know my last order came without issue. Rejuvenate was still swollen for sure, but nothing spilled out of the 6-10 products I ordered.

 

[milkyjoe]

Hey byf...let me ask your opinion. You know how a tiny amount of Co really drives root hair growth? Do you see any crazy danger in spraying really tiny amounts of Co on clones say 3-4 days after plugging. I see the upside...but quite often I never consider consequences.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

I don't use the straight cobalt on clones but I spray clones with pht p and PhotoMag to get them to bust roots...the logic is there.