Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[milkyjoe]

The truth is I am kinda thinking the 2 BA liquid products for the soil...depending if there is reasonable info on the label. The forage foliar blend for foliar. Tainio stuff used as they reccomemd.

And, of course a couple of bottles of sea crop laying around for all kins of things including me doing a yablespoon a day...the dogs, the chickens, friends

Edit...when you think about it mj is not grown for seeds...same as forage. All we are really trying to do is drive photosynthesis to build biomass. Why I am considering the forage blend

 

[theJointedOne]

What are you gonna use for soil?

coot's mix

 

[milkyjoe]

With added gypsum? Great choice. You won't need potassium but the rest of the tomato program dhould work fine with that. It is posted in this thrrad somewhere...or if you can't find it I will post it again

 

[theJointedOne]

Thanks milky, ill check it out

 

[milkyjoe]

Or what the hell. Here is what I am using indoors per 1000 watts right now. Right or wrong who knows and subject to change on a whim...but

Weekly fertigation...3 ml sea shield, 1ml rejuvenate and 1/2 ml sea crop. Spectrum and pepzyme clear are added only when soil ec drops below 0.6...1/8 tsp spec and 5 drops pep.

Weekly foliar...2 ml sea shield, 1 ml photomag, 1/2 ml micropak or the albion equivalent if I see B toxicity),1/2 ml sea stim ( or I use ferti organics soluble k kelp if I need k), 1/8 tsp pf micro 5000 alternated with pz 1000. 1/2 ml sea crop. I use a touch of p acid if needed to bring ph to 6.

If I need N I add ferti nitro.

That is just me...I definitely like to experiment. And I want some nutri tech tria.

 

[Bulldog420]

Yes more info would be great, a brief synopsis or maybe a snapshot, tiny blurb for the thread.

Like I said, ask BackyardFarmer. He "should" know your answers.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Backyard farmer and backyardfarmer aren't the same user

I am not going to put up anything online until everything's finalized.

You can pm me for rep details.

 

[leadsled]

Test Results

Test Results

Got the soil test results from logan labs.

Still trying to get up to speed on how to read the results.
About halfway through "the intelligent gardener"

Anyone got any suggestions?
As far as amendments. Would spectrum extra be a better choice going off my sodium levels?

Milkyjoe, like to hear about adding gypsum to clack mix.
I used gypsum and oyster shell flour.

Clack style mix.

Mix details:
3.5cu feet ss#4
3 cu feet growstones
1cu feet ewc wonder worm
1cu feet ca humus.
8 cubic feet.
Rate per cubic foot"
1/2 cup cubic foot crab kelp and neem meal.
1cup gypsum, 1 cup oyster shell flour
2 cups rock dust
1 cup frass.

watered with rejuvenate 2oz gal, pepzyme 5ml gallon, spectrum 1tsp
Sent to logans labs after sitting in compost sak for 15 days
----
Had some bags of Vermifire left over. Tested it out.

watered with rejuvenate, biogenisis, pepzyme clear, spectrum.
----
Sat in a compost sak for 20 days and then was sent to logan labs.

 

[Bulldog420]

I only have a second and don't have time to dive into your results at the moment, but you know AEA does soil tests and they send it off to logan. They should give you a pretty good run down of what your soil needs with their program. I didn't know this at first and sent mine to logan. Gary told me that and then said to send the PDF to him and he would give me some suggestions. Hope this helps.

 

[milkyjoe]

I be drinking again...but that much organic matter makes albrecht numbers irrelavent. I would fix the micros and maybe add some Ca. But otherwise good to go. Ph is an issue though...weird with that much s.

Still gotta check nitrates though...indoors 100, outddors 200 and you be good to go

 

[c-ray]

cec seems pretty low even tho the organic matter is high, micros seem on the low side overall

btw Hugh Lovel has a new book out in a few days

http://quantumagriculture.com/quantum-agriculture-biodynamics-and-beyond

and acres USA has Bruce Tainio audio CD's for sale from the 2005 and 2006 conferences, just ask because it's not on their site / check old acresusa.com pages on archive.org for all the older audios

 

[milkyjoe]

OK I be sober. No way the cec is that low. If peat is 100 and it is half the mix you gotta be at least 50 right? I really don't think these tests can measure cec properly in these mixes. Plus with pH right at 7 you maybe needed that AA 8.2 test to measure tcec.

I would fix Mn, Zn and Cu and go for it. I would also spray a little extra Mn for a while.

I would also be tempted to put just a touch of S in there...like 1/8 tsp per yard...to try to lower the pH a little bit...not a huge deal but maybe worth doing.

When you look at these 30% plus organic matter soils you are looking at a shit load of humus. Humus holds both anions and cations better than clay cec. Plus you are using plenty of stuff to improve drainage. So exact ratios don't really matter...just make sure there is enough of all the cations and anions in there to last the grow.

Just my take...take it for what you think it is worth.

edit...and the next batch you make I would cut that oyster shell in half. That will bring your Ca down a little bit and not adding the CO3 (from the oyster shell) should lower the pH a bit.

edit dos...sea shield may be a better source of chitin/chitosan than the frass. I forget his exact argument but Coot is no fan of frass...maybe something about the possibility of bad bacteria...anyways I tend to respect his opinion on things like that.

 

[leadsled]

I only have a second and don't have time to dive into your results at the moment, but you know AEA does soil tests and they send it off to logan. They should give you a pretty good run down of what your soil needs with their program. I didn't know this at first and sent mine to logan. Gary told me that and then said to send the PDF to him and he would give me some suggestions. Hope this helps.

Thanks Bulldog420. Will give that a shot and share the results.

I be drinking again...but that much organic matter makes albrecht numbers irrelavent. I would fix the micros and maybe add some Ca. But otherwise good to go. Ph is an issue though...weird with that much s.

Still gotta check nitrates though...indoors 100, outddors 200 and you be good to go

Thanks, I am happy to amend and then test again.

cec seems pretty low even tho the organic matter is high, micros seem on the low side overall

btw Hugh Lovel has a new book out in a few days

http://quantumagriculture.com/quantum-agriculture-biodynamics-and-beyond

and acres USA has Bruce Tainio audio CD's for sale from the 2005 and 2006 conferences, just ask because it's not on their site / check old acresusa.com pages on archive.org for all the older audios

Thanks for sharing. The rock dust I used was from vital earth.

OK I be sober. No way the cec is that low. If peat is 100 and it is half the mix you gotta be at least 50 right? I really don't think these tests can measure cec properly in these mixes. Plus with pH right at 7 you maybe needed that AA 8.2 test to measure tcec.

I would fix Mn, Zn and Cu and go for it. I would also spray a little extra Mn for a while.

I would also be tempted to put just a touch of S in there...like 1/8 tsp per yard...to try to lower the pH a little bit...not a huge deal but maybe worth doing.

When you look at these 30% plus organic matter soils you are looking at a shit load of humus. Humus holds both anions and cations better than clay cec. Plus you are using plenty of stuff to improve drainage. So exact ratios don't really matter...just make sure there is enough of all the cations and anions in there to last the grow.

Just my take...take it for what you think it is worth.

edit...and the next batch you make I would cut that oyster shell in half. That will bring your Ca down a little bit and not adding the CO3 (from the oyster shell) should lower the pH a bit.

edit dos...sea shield may be a better source of chitin/chitosan than the frass. I forget his exact argument but Coot is no fan of frass...maybe something about the possibility of bad bacteria...anyways I tend to respect his opinion on things like that.

Appreciate the input! The peat is slightly more than 33% of the mix.
The compost was slightly less than 33%
14 gallons of compost
22 gallons of grow stone
24 gallons of sunshine
----

Can you make some suggestions to fix my micros?

Elemental sulfur for S?
Got any tips on how to spread 1/8 tsp per yard over less than a yard? Can it be watered in?

Happy to mix it up and then send back for more testing.
Next test get nitrogen test.

Appreciate the suggestions. Will avoid the frass and try lower gypsum for the next mix.

After using it longer, You still feeling good about the keystone bioag greenhouse mix?

Thanks for sharing everyone.

 

[milkyjoe]

I would use aea micros...call gary r. Iwill pm you his number. They are 2-3% and liquid so you can mix them in water and simply fertigate...like 9 dollars a gallon. I would ask gary how much to use.

Also ask him about the pH.

Now let me ask you something. I found a 62 vette that was used as a parts car. Been sitting out so long the fiberglass is showing through. How bad would I piss off vette guys if I rat rod that thing. Maybe slap a junkyard 5.3 in it.

I should get a pic. I am thinking damn near sacrilige. Makes me want to do it

 

[MJtheIndicator]

In a '62 yes everyone would be up in arms. Personally I would like to see an oversized engine in a '70 or '71. A friend once slammed a 350 in a Fiat just for kicks, so in the spirit of absurdity I would encourage such practices.

 

[leadsled]

I would use aea micros...call gary r. Iwill pm you his number. They are 2-3% and liquid so you can mix them in water and simply fertigate...like 9 dollars a gallon. I would ask gary how much to use.

Also ask him about the pH.

Now let me ask you something. I found a 62 vette that was used as a parts car. Been sitting out so long the fiberglass is showing through. How bad would I piss off vette guys if I rat rod that thing. Maybe slap a junkyard 5.3 in it.

I should get a pic. I am thinking damn near sacrilige. Makes me want to do it

Thanks alot. Will ask and report back on what is suggested and how it works out.

----

That sounds like a fun project. If it can be had for cheap even better. You probably got a bunch of open space to open it up and have fun with that in your neck of the woods. A 62 vette would turn some heads and be a blast to thrash on.

Would def piss the die hard vette people off. That can be a blast by itself. Imagine em asking you now. Are you going to restore it???

lol. Makes me laugh the way folks get bent out of shape how someone else builds a car. It is there car they can do whatever they want....

Friend has a 57 vette huge slicks and blower. Stock pursist always cringe seeing such a classic car "wasted". rofl.

5.3 would rip hard with the power to weight ratio in a light car. Have seen folks get the ls 5.3 motors from the junkyard for super cheap.
I would check that there is not any major vette specific parts that are needed. That could end up being costly but also may be a cheaper way to do things.. Then there is a will there is a way.

Like to see/hear what you do. Into all type of cars and projects. I noticed there was an automotive section on here. Have not checked it out much yet. Maybe a good spot to share some pics without hijacking the growing thread. Let me know like to check it out.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

if you use the 5.3 can you please turbo it so it actually has some balls.

 

[milkyjoe]

Yea...turbo plus 5.3 plus fox body = high 9s. This is probably lighter. Just don't know if I can get it to fit

Or honda 4 banger just to make chevy guys heads explode. Either would be fun

 

[Backyard Farmer]

K24 is a good engine.

But it also needs a turbo.

I like boost.

Using These nutrients is like boosting your garden. You can go really fast. Or blow up

 

[milkyjoe]

What fucks with my head is this. I use lower concentrations of aea than I do soluble nutes and get more response. Cannot get me head really wrapped around that what is going on I am missing?