Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[Backyard Farmer]

Conventional nutrients take away metabolic energy from plants to be processed in to building blocks to make more energy to process the next load.

It's a counter productive cycle.

AEA provides the correct balance of elements in an available form, going back to the nano particle size again and the blending technology without going so far in to it as to incite the wrath of microbeman , for plants to create their own food by feeding the biology in the soil with their exudates ... so the opposite effect occurs relative to conventional nutrients which are usually MAP MKP KNO3 cano3 and edta micros which all require the plant to expend energy to utilize

You apply the AEA food it adds energy to the plant. More energy means it to mines more minerals from the cation anion matrix from the increased energy level and enzyme functions and creates more exudates which stimulates the biology more and it keeps going unless you're a total bonehead...and the result is more growth with less perceived input when in reality we were just putting the wrong stuff on them before...and what's really the limit now? I think I could change the application rate to be the total per week spread out in to daily doses and see really intense results.

It's only lately that we are figuring it out compare now to two years ago...the grasp on the trip as an entirety has become a lot more esoteric...

 

[milkyjoe]

We are doing the daily foliar on a 3 light grow. Had to cut way back on N. Be tough on a big grow but results are even better. Gotta be mining the pots though. One of these days I gotta figure out how to reamend minerals in high organic soils.

Microbeman has had the N cycling figured out for a while. We are playing catch up

 

[milkyjoe]

A true barn find. Tell me this thing doesn't scream rat me.

BYF...do you have any citations describing how things that have been cycled through microbes are already in a form the plant can use. I get the nitrogen part...get it in as an amine and you save maybe 10% energy on the way to a protein. But what about minerals like P or Ca...or is it actually just nitrogen we are talking about.

Plus not all of the products are "available but not soluble". Photomag is mostly Epsom salt...that is soluble. Sea Crop is soluble also.

I am trying to sort out whether energy is saved because enzymes are formed or it is that stuff is "pre assembled" by microbes. I suspect the biggest difference is the enzyme thing...other than N.

The other thing I find meself curious about is can microbes take up complete enzymes like pepzyme and use them to their benefit. Or do they have to form their own from mineral co factors. Is pepzyme a catalyst to help microbes form their own enzymes or is it directly usable?

I, for one, would love to see the actual science behind this stuff. Anecdotal stories are cool and all but they hardly satisfy my curiosity.

 

[c-ray]

are you sure seacrop is soluble? personally I might classify it as a nano-colloidal suspension of mostly calcium oxide and magnesium oxide, with phytoplankton and trace compounds.. (*some of the traces could be in soluble form)

 

[milkyjoe]

Phytoplanton may not be soluble. The minerals have to be though. Otherwise they would settle out. Plus they are all chlorides right.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

View Image

A true barn find. Tell me this thing doesn't scream rat me.

BYF...do you have any citations describing how things that have been cycled through microbes are already in a form the plant can use. I get the nitrogen part...get it in as an amine and you save maybe 10% energy on the way to a protein. But what about minerals like P or Ca...or is it actually just nitrogen we are talking about.

I do. Do you have SpringerLink?

Plus not all of the products are "available but not soluble". Photomag is mostly Epsom salt...that is soluble. Sea Crop is soluble also.

There is a lot of MgSo4 in Photomag , but that isn't what makes it work. I don't want to get in to the soluble vs suspended trip again.

I am trying to sort out whether energy is saved because enzymes are formed or it is that stuff is "pre assembled" by microbes. I suspect the biggest difference is the enzyme thing...other than N.

The energy is saved only in part through the enzyme system. Microbes restructuring stuff is the other part

The other thing I find meself curious about is can microbes take up complete enzymes like pepzyme and use them to their benefit. Or do they have to form their own from mineral co factors. Is pepzyme a catalyst to help microbes form their own enzymes or is it directly usable?

It makes the microbes grow. It acts as a catalyst for what's already there.

I, for one, would love to see the actual science behind this stuff. Anecdotal stories are cool and all but they hardly satisfy my curiosity.

 

[milkyjoe]

What do I need to do to get a springer link

 

[Backyard Farmer]

http://link.springer.com

 

[milkyjoe]

So what do I look under.

 

[odkin]

Don't want to be seen as ragging on anybody here- but it has taken a short 3 1/2 months to get up to 50 pages on this here thread, whereas it took 6 months to do the same on Tom's 'big plant' thread- the epic thread of ICmag. You guys have great momentum going here- please don't clutter up the thread with car talk- even though at any other time it can be fair game!

 

[odkin]

Hey Milkyjoe,
Sorry you took my post as you did! I have nothing but high regard for what you guys are doing here- you in particular! I have nothing to contribute- just a lowly old hippie who has been outdoor guerrila for many years in an area that will be years before we become as free as yourselves. But I recognize the wealth of information her. Did not mean to piss you off in the attempt to point the thread back to it's original intent!!

 

[StrongBeef]

For anybody interested:

Smart Technology Seminar in Santa Clara, ca on Nov 7-8th. Google it for more info. John kempf will be there.

 

[StrongBeef]

Hope this isn't spamming. Here is a list of the activities for the weekend. They are almost sold out, 7 more seats. This is directly related to the philosophy that John Hempf is trying to enlighten the rest of us with.

Day 1: 8:00 AM-4:30 PM

 7:30 -8:30 Light brunch items available with beverages

 8:30-8:45 Welcome: Michelle D. Gregg, CHL Program Director

 8:45-10:30 Introduction, Sjoerd Smits, Owner HortiNova / NovaCropControl (independent consultancy and

laboratory)

 History of plant sap analysis 2003-2014 (11 years of data)

 Why does our plant sap analysis always include these specific 21-25 parameters?

 Differences between plant sap analysis and conventional tissue test (dry matter), Benefits of a plant sap

analysis.

 10:30 Break (15 minutes)

 10:45- 11:30 Sap Analysis in the US and Canada: Jason Hobson of Advancing Eco Agriculture (30 minutes)

 11:30- 1:00 Sjoerd Smits How proper sampling and labelling (water and leaves) should be done, Do’s and

don’ts.

 Why do we test young full grown leaf and the old leaves

 Mobility of nutrients in the plant

 1:00 Break for lunch (45 minutes)

 1:45 Start afternoon session

 1:45- 2:15 Grower presentation: Jacob Gwilliam of Tulare Ag Products: Sap Analysis in Arid Central CA (30

minutes)

 2:15 PM- 4:30 Sjoerd Smits

 Which factors influence the uptake of the minerals in the plant

 Cation and anion interaction

o Antagonistic and synergistic interactions between the minerals

o Functions per element, cations: Ca, Mg, K, Na and NH4

o Functions per element, anions: NO3, P, Cl, S

o Functions per trace element: Fe, Mn, Zn, B, Cu and Mo

 How to read a plant sap analysis report

 Save fertilizer inputs: how Netherlands growers save 10-25% input K and P

 4:30 PM Adjourn

 5:00- 9:00 PM Networking and dinner: dinner orders collected at 5:30

o 5:00 Networking and nutrient troubleshooting in common room

o 7:00 Dinner provided in common room, networking continues into evening

Day 2: 8:00 AM- 4:00 PM

 7:30 -8:30 Light brunch items available with beverages

 8:00 Introduction, Michelle D. Gregg, Program Director, CHL

 8:00-10:00 AM: Sjoerd Smits: HortiNova

 Research update HortiNova / NovaCropControl 2008-2013, deficiency and toxicity trials in tomato, bell

pepper and cucumber.

 Trial outcome: differing K/Ca ratios and EC on growth (vegetative and generative stages)

Power Growers Seminar November 7-8, 2014 The Biltmore Hotel, Santa Clara, CA





 Interactions between water analysis and plant analysis, complementary or contradictory

 10:00 AM Break (15 minutes)

 10:15-10:45: Nic Ellis, PhD How Sap Analysis Is Empowering Vegetable Producers: East US (30 minutes)

 10:45AM-1:00 PM Sjoerd Smits, HortiNova

 Plant health effects regarding the nutrient status of the plant.

 Nitrate conversion to protein Nitrogen regarding pest and disease management.

 Sharing experiences with less susceptibility for:

o production of bell pepper and tomato

o Insects: aphids, trips, spider mite

o Fungal disease: mildew, botrytis, phytophthora,

o Fruit quality problems: BER, discoloured fruit, fruit falling, yellow crown, crown burning

 1:00 Break for lunch (45 min)

 1:45 Start afternoon sessions

 1:45-2:30 Advancing Eco Agriculture (AEA): John Kempf, CEO: Imperatives for the future of food (45 min)

 2:30-4:30 Sjoerd Smits, Horti Nova

 How can we prevent a crop from suffering from yellowing plant tops. Iron deficiency or P toxicity?

 Online database: How to monitor the nutrient levels in your crop by working with Bemestingonline.nl.

 4:00 PM Questions / discussion

 4:30 PM Adjourn

Video of the full 2-day seminar will be shipped to you following the seminar, on USB thumb drive, our gift to you.

 If you require cd or other method of transmission, please connect with us to place a special order

 Additional copies of this seminar are available for purchase ($275) on our website, by phone, or by emailing

[email protected]

o How to scout for visual deficiencies per element in tomato, bell pepper and cucumber. How to

distinguish between several mineral deficiencies.

o How to monitor the progress of the nutrient status of your crop and water analysis.

Michelle D. Gregg, Program Director, CHL [email protected]

John Kempf, Chief Executive Officer, AEA [email protected]

NovaCropControl, and Horti Nova: www.novacropcontrol.nl/en

Sjoerd Smits, Owner, NCC and HN [email protected]

Maikel van de Ven, lead technician [email protected]

Crop Health Laboratories: www.crophealthlabs.com 1-800- 495-7938

Brittany Brown, CHL Customer Care Coordinator [email protected]

Shirley McAuley, CHL Logistics Coordinator, [email protected] 419-565-0055

Nic Ellis, Consulting Specialist, Keystone Bio Ag [email protected] 717-354-2115

And Norden Ag Consulting

Advancing Eco Agriculture (AEA): www.advancingecoagriculture.com 1-800-495-6603

Jason Hobson, VP Special Projects, AEA [email protected]

Power Growers Seminar November 7-8, 2014 The Biltmore Hotel, Santa Clara, CA





Gary Reding, Plant and Soil Specialist AEA [email protected]

Nathan Harman, Plant and Soil Specialist, AEA [email protected]

Aaron Jimenez, Chief of Staff, AEA [email protected]

Jenny Garley, Research Specialist West Coast, AEA [email protected]

Bill Cisneros, Plant and Soil Specialist, AEA [email protected]

 

[milkyjoe]

I find meself curious about a couple of things today:

A) who exactly is strongbeef
B) is anyone else curious about what Tainio adds to micro 5000 and PZ 1000? Basically hydro nutes added to live bacteria. If you accept that Tainio is, in fact, a genius...well like me ol buddies at Toyota use to say...sacred cows make the tastiest burgers.

These are the thoughts running through me head today

Edit...and while I am thinking about it what advantage is sap testing if I cannot send me leaves in for testing

Edit dos...and why did john's webinar interview with nova disappear from his site? I find meself wondering...is he trying to educate...or sell?

 

[FatherEarth]

I have the webinar saved if you want it MJ. I wondered the same thing about a bunch of the AEA videos.

The fact that Tainio uses things outside the organic spectrum doesnt bother me. It seems he picked things that truly dont harm anything if used properly or improperly for that matter. Some things just didnt make the organic list I suppose. Scared crows are tough to chew...

Whats beef? Mos def said it best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVmhZW1dDis&spfreload=10

 

[milkyjoe]

Yes he did FE...yes he did.

Edit...here is me question about Tainio...no doubt it does no harm...but, is that plant food, or microbe food. If it is microbe food why the fuck would I choose organic sources over that...especially for pots. I could see if I was trying to build a myko network in a field...but I ain't.

 

[FatherEarth]

I mean youd think if Organic was better it would have been chosen... Maybe its economics...

Is it Advancing Economics & Agriculture?

 

[milkyjoe]

FE...as your indo plants get more energy in them do you see a bigger need to dewax your bho? And even then have you seen an increase in yield?

 

[FatherEarth]

To be honest the bho that comes off my plants has shown lots of anomalies that have yet to be explained. True terminated crystals forming in clusters. The crystals growing in the oil are unknown, I have yet to find a lab that can process the oil and pinpoint what they may be. Only viewable under microscope...Ive even isolated the crystals alone from the oil, crystaline powder. My oil yields are certainly on the upper end. Im about to run the latest material, Ill let you know how it goes.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

For those interested in the relationship between microbes and minerals ...

http://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-81-322-1287-4

http://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-94-007-4177-5

http://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-540-75575-3