Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[slownickel]

Chelates

Chelates

Folks,

The chelates of Albion were tested by the USDA for efficacy. Those results were actually quite incredible.

To my understanding, Albion is a triple chelate with amino acids. No idea what AEA is using to chelate, according to their Rebound labels, the product is just molasses and manganese, zinc or copper sulfates. No mention of any thing else.

Albion took years to perfect.

Sulfates applied as foliars work ok too. But a good chelate works much better.

I have seen small miracles with Albion.

I discovered Baicor a couple of years ago, got to talk to the owner. He used to be the chemist at Albion and claims to have invented and formulated their whole line. Upon retiring and waiting out his non compete agreement, he made a line of products to compete with any chelate on the market, insisting he chelated their product 5 times instead of the triple chelate at Albion. And, they are about half the price.

I have used and continue to use the Baicor products extensively in Mexico on Mango. Works just as well if not better than Albion.

 

[caterpillar710]

So there's no actual information showing the difference in the two just a conversation you had with someone ?

I use the Albion metalosate organic powders , they work very well.

AEA has a lot of products where not all ingredients are listed

 

[jidoka]

So baicor and albion good stuff to use...aea woowoo juice. Start a new thread

 

[caterpillar710]

So baicor and albion good stuff to use...aea woowoo juice. Start a new thread

I kind of got that feeling too.

It's all woowoo juice really because it starts in the soil so any of this stuff being NEEDED... First need is go back to the soil

 

[slownickel]

I have never used AEA anything... no experience on which to base my opinion.

Don't know anyone other than yourselves who do....

I would try side by side and see what happens... Especially if you are measuring sap brix.
You tell me!

When I was first introduced to Albion, I was able to see rows of mango trees with and without. The difference was night and day. Then I went to a couple of their sales seminars at mango and grape conferences, plus the Sales Mgr sent me a bunch of the USDA trials in melons and others, there was no denial that their foliar calcium worked and worked well. When I talked to the owner/chemist at Baicor, I got to hear a lot of the nitty gritty at Albion. I love that kind of stuff... haha.

As for Baicor, one cannot confuse the medicine with the Doctor. Kempf knows a lot. He figured out the issue with Mn. He figured out a lot of what is Carey Reams, who is way out there in left field. But Kempf also is very well read and is super inquisitive. I met Brunetti, Kempfs' old partner, who was heavy into micronizing of inputs which is brilliant to get response to small dosis and sell a lot of product, instead of putting on correctives.

My nickname is a play on words regarding the saying regarding the fast nickel vs slow dime. I always say agriculture is a slow nickel most often, personal joke if you will, implying that agriculture is not as easy as most folks think.

 

[caterpillar710]

Slow, I use both AEA and Albion , both are good. Neither are woowoo.

Thanks for your experience and input.

Do you sneak any cannabis plants in on your finca ?

John is actually in Peru now if you're interested maybe we can set up a farm visit

 

[slownickel]

I kind of got that feeling too.

It's all woowoo juice really because it starts in the soil so any of this stuff being NEEDED... First need is go back to the soil

For me, giving into using foliars was very very difficult. I used to joke with the guys at Albion telling them that if I needed them, I wasn't doing something right in the field. I still feel that way.... however.....

There is the big issue of soil/water dynamics. People don't realize how really problematic that is. And then there is the issue of how each fertilizer reacts, for example, nitrates. Nitrates are alkaline. Apply a bunch of nitrate and you instantly have metal problems.

The same works in reverse, ammonia, ammonia is acidic, it is a cation. Calcium uptake goes down when you use ammonia....

We better take this to another thread...

 

[caterpillar710]

Well my first step at any farm I'm brought to consult at is to ask for the irrigation suitability panel for their water.

How would any one know what to do without knowing alkalinity hardness pH and mineral make up? Any one flying blind in that regard is a bad manager in my opinion , water is the number one fertilizer

Foliar feeding is a powerful tool and I use it weekly.

 

[jidoka]

I use albion for a different reason. Glycine is absolutely required to form pectin, cellulose and hemicellulose. Spraying glycine saves the plant energy from breaking down protein.

Otherwise I like aea

 

[slownickel]

Love to meet Kempf in person. That would be interesting.

I am in the north of Peru, in the state of Piura. Not sure if he will be going that far north.

I leave tomorrow afternoon for the north and will be getting back friday.

 

[slownickel]

And no, no planting in my farm.... that would freak me out. Way too public.

 

[jidoka]

(closest I could get to woowoo )

 

[Johnny Redthumb]

Looking good! Wheres your EC at for this now, around 0.5? Any recent soil tests?

 

[jidoka]

Around 0.4, if I push them harder I am going to have a mess. No recent soil tests but it looks like I have to give them some food before long. Found some dead fungus gnats so the plants are still protecting themselves

That bottom pic is the cherry diesel outgrowing my blue dreams.

 

[neverforget4/20]

Folks i listened to Kempf describing Accelerate on you tube and read about it in this thread. I have a gallon on the way. Foliar application seems like the way to go but i was curious if anyone has used it in fertigarion concurrent (or not) with foliar?

As far as application frequency, the direcrions suggest a single application. Are accelerate users here following the recommendations.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[caterpillar710]

Cannabis isn't a single flowering crop though it's continuously producing new bracts through flower, so multiple applications are all good.

It works good on roots too

 

[slownickel]

Try some foliarly on one side of a plant, the other side no.

Phoshorus is needed at the root zone so as to move nutrients to the flowers and fruit. Phosphorus foliarly will make energy, not transport nutrients.

This product has manganese, calcium and phos, plus a bunch of goodies that maybe someone else can chip in on. All of these are critical via the root system. Foliarly they should help, but my bet is on the soil.

 

[Johnny Redthumb]

So if I'm trying to increase my soil EC and I'm going into flower and want to up K as well, should I only be feeding K, or should I be feeding balanced solutions of Ca and K?

I am guessing in the soil where I have excess Mg Cations to be feeding some light Ca along with heavy K to move the excess Mg cations off of those CEC sites. But I was thinking the same thing should work with the soil that is high in carbonates and has mostly unavailable Ca. Correct me if I'm wrong here....

Or should I just be pounding potassium and accept the fact that I mostly missed the boat on Calcium?

 

[neverforget4/20]

Try some foliarly on one side of a plant, the other side no.

Phoshorus is needed at the root zone so as to move nutrients to the flowers and fruit. Phosphorus foliarly will make energy, not transport nutrients.

This product has manganese, calcium and phos, plus a bunch of goodies that maybe someone else can chip in on. All of these are critical via the root system. Foliarly they should help, but my bet is on the soil.

Cannabis isn't a single flowering crop though it's continuously producing new bracts through flower, so multiple applications are all good.

It works good on roots too

Thanks Guys,

My order arrived today. It was packed meticulously. No leaks or bloated container. 1 gal of accelerate packed in a 2.5 gal jug, taped at the cap and cushioned with biodegradable packing peanuts. Ill put up some pics after application.

 

[reppin2c]

My showed up today too. 2-2.5 gallon containers minor leakage(tablespoon?). Packing peanuts in between boxes. Pretty happy about that. Just in time for my last run in the Ghouse. Maybe the bigger box made em ship it easier