a ppk for a 6 plant limit

[gmanwho]

hey delta thanks for all your input. your def an asset to this community.

So as you know i am building my first ppk system. 8 sites, 1 3" return to the rez. i am using 3 gal lowers with the 7 gal upper feed pans. turface.

trying to figure the "airgap" in the tail piece. ive read a 4" air gap in the tail piece is a good start. tail piece is 1" off bottom of bucket? then flood intervals every 3 hrs an the on time of pump is dependit on system, basically till turface floods correct??

so far i noticed some interesting things with the turface vs other mediums. it seems like its max saturation point is high when it comes from a " dry position" . it holds the water to a high building point, after that max saturation point is meet it does an intense drain, after the drain it seems to hold alot less water then the " first initial max saturation point". would this be correct???

i can see why this would be a great medium when u get that intense vacuum drain.

thanks for your help..... be well an bsafe

 

[delta9nxs]

hey delta thanks for all your input. your def an asset to this community.

So as you know i am building my first ppk system. 8 sites, 1 3" return to the rez. i am using 3 gal lowers with the 7 gal upper feed pans. turface.

trying to figure the "airgap" in the tail piece. ive read a 4" air gap in the tail piece is a good start. tail piece is 1" off bottom of bucket? then flood intervals every 3 hrs an the on time of pump is dependit on system, basically till turface floods correct??

so far i noticed some interesting things with the turface vs other mediums. it seems like its max saturation point is high when it comes from a " dry position" . it holds the water to a high building point, after that max saturation point is meet it does an intense drain, after the drain it seems to hold alot less water then the " first initial max saturation point". would this be correct???

i can see why this would be a great medium when u get that intense vacuum drain.

thanks for your help..... be well an bsafe

are those 3 gal or 3.5 gal buckets? the 3.5's are 11" tall so i would start with a 7" water level giving a 4" airgap.

i'm not sure of the height of the 3 gal buckets but if you start your water level about 4" below the lid you should be about right.

i'm not sure i follow you about the draining but water going into an already wet medium will disperse better than water going into a dry medium.

in the ppk you should never let the medium dry. a little dry crust on top is ok but 1/2" down it should be visibly wet looking. glistening in the light, so to speak.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

I think what gmanwho is referring to is that when the medium is saturated the first time, it holds a large amount of water. So when watering a second time, it takes much less water to satisfy the mediums water holding capacity.

So to fully saturate a dry medium, lets say for this posts sake, takes 1 gallon, before the medium is totally full, and 10% runs off. The next time u water, it will only take about .3 gallons, to get 10% runoff. This effect happens with all mediums that have a decent water holding capacity.

Something that doesn't hold much water like hydroton, would take the same amount of water each time to achieve the same amount of runoff.

As another example, completely dry coir, like bricked coir, acts much the same way that turface does in initial water holding capacity. once u satisfied it by completely saturating, it only takes a fraction of the first watering/soaking to achieve runoff.

 

[gmanwho]

actually what i was trying to say might have been my current situation. kinda hard for me to get thought to text sometimes. i was rinsing the turface for the first time. i had the turface saturated an washed prior, an was doing a final rinse an i noticed what im about to try an explain.

during the final rinse in 3 gal buckets i noticed how the turface seemed to hold alot of water. but then when it reached a certain saturation point it would dump an then the medium held alot less then its orginal max saturation point.

2 examples. both examples 3 gal buckets with already prior saturated turface. we moved the turface to new buckets to remove any hydraulic suction, surface tension, or whatever water physics or chemistry may be. lets say this 3 gal bucket will hold an additional 1 gal of fluid before it starts to run off.

first bucket u start dumping ..........1.1 gallons in, just a little bit more water over the turfaces holding point. u start pouring ...u reach .75 gallons .8 . 9 gallons, its still holding the water. u keep pouring then the 1 gallon point it starts to run off. u continue till the 1.1 runs through. after the breaking 1 gallon point its like like something opens the flood gates an water flashes out of the medium then you left with say.... a 10th of a gallon holding in the medium. total.

bucket example 2 you start pouring in the water. .5 .6 .7 but you never pour till you reached that one gallon point, u stop at .7 .....an now the medium is sill holding the .7.... it never reached its max saturation point therefore its holding more water then it would if it reached the 1 gal point.

the flash flood after the saturation point i think is what makes this medium perfect, an i think i understand what was meant by a " wave " or pulse.

i dont know maybe it was me, seemed like an important moment to me.

anycase.... appreciate it all..... bsafe

 

[delta9nxs]

actually what i was trying to say might have been my current situation. kinda hard for me to get thought to text sometimes. i was rinsing the turface for the first time. i had the turface saturated an washed prior, an was doing a final rinse an i noticed what im about to try an explain.

during the final rinse in 3 gal buckets i noticed how the turface seemed to hold alot of water. but then when it reached a certain saturation point it would dump an then the medium held alot less then its orginal max saturation point.

2 examples. both examples 3 gal buckets with already prior saturated turface. we moved the turface to new buckets to remove any hydraulic suction action or whatever water physics or chemistry may be. lets say this 3 gal bucket will hold an additional 1 gal of fluid before it starts to run off.

first bucket u start dumping ..........1.1 gallons in, just a little bit more water over the turfaces holding point. u start pouring ...u reach .75 gallons .8 . 9 gallons, its still holding the water. u keep pouring then the 1 gallon point it starts to run off. u continue till the 1.1 runs through. after the breaking 1 gallon point its like like something opens the flood gates an water flashes out of the medium then you left with say.... a 10th of a gallon holding in the medium. total.

bucket example 2 you start pouring in the water. .5 .6 .7 but you never pour till you reached that one gallon point, u stop at .7 .....an now the medium is sill holding the .7.... it never reached its max saturation point therefore its holding more water then it would if it reached the 1 gal point.

the flash flood after the saturation point i think is what makes this medium perfect, an i think i understand what was meant by a " wave " or pulse.

i dont know maybe it was me, seemed like an important moment to me.

anycase.... appreciate it all..... bsafe

i think i get you now! sometimes i'm slow.

the matric potential is also defined as the water holding potential of a medium.

this is it's potential to hold water against the force of gravity.

by adding water slowly you are building up to the saturation point.

then there is a release of the excess as the potential is overcome.

an epiphanic moment creating a deeper understanding is a uniquely human trait.

my first one with this device came when i realized that individual roots will not become anoxic if the overall root system is getting enough o2.

the second was the realization that i could radically reduce the size of the perched water table by simple mechanical trickery.

 

[gmanwho]

i think i get you now! sometimes i'm slow.

the matric potential is also defined as the water holding potential of a medium.

this is it's potential to hold water against the force of gravity.

by adding water slowly you are building up to the saturation point.

then there is a release of the excess as the potential is overcome.

an epiphanic moment creating a deeper understanding is a uniquely human trait.

my first one with this device came when i realized that individual roots will not become anoxic if the overall root system is getting enough o2.

the second was the realization that i could radically reduce the size of the perched water table by simple mechanical trickery.

no man your not slow..... im just not well at communicating. always been a problem for me to get things to text.

yes. i completely see. matric potential must be what i am seeing. surface tension holding the water back till gravity becomes to much.

also i then thought that this balance is probably the best scenario, an with drainage an feed time tweeking, making sure max saturation happens to create the wave of water back out of the medium.

this mechanical trickery makes what is needed for max results. to avoid the water logged medium. as the medium dumps it creates a vacuum an exchanges the water for air creating a perfect environment.

( an i then wondered, this is probably where you can get the occasional people having problems, if they never reach the max saturation, or the drainage doesnt flow properly. maybe there wasnt enough water in their system to reach this wave point, the pump ran dry before it was reachd. maybe there was poor drainage to prevent this flash flood. )

i feel like the amount of water in the system should be just lightly over this max point, that way the the buckets are drained or close to when the top bucket decides to let go. pump goes off just after this point

all my buckets are set, drains in, working on the feed hoses later on. filled the system with water, no leaks after 3 days, looking good.

thanks d9

 

[bearded1]

i think i get you now! sometimes i'm slow.

the matric potential is also defined as the water holding potential of a medium.

this is it's potential to hold water against the force of gravity.

by adding water slowly you are building up to the saturation point.

then there is a release of the excess as the potential is overcome.

an epiphanic moment creating a deeper understanding is a uniquely human trait.

my first one with this device came when i realized that individual roots will not become anoxic if the overall root system is getting enough o2.

the second was the realization that i could radically reduce the size of the perched water table by simple mechanical trickery.

So my question is. Is that the same as saturation point. Where an object can no longer adsorb more liquid?

 

[gmanwho]

deleted post

 

[Miraculous Meds]

d9 can explain this better, but to address what ur talking about gman, ur not growing in one piece of turface, so really u want to understand how much water is absorbed/retained in the flower pot vs the amount of medium. that gives u a clear picture of how much water from a dry point is in the flower pot n medium. That helps u to understand the ratio of water to air in the medium. and that's one of the important factors to dial in the grow medium. I believe d9 says 35% air porosity is ideal in this system. look at posts for his air porosity test to better understand what the hell im trying to relate.

 

[Gry]

In previous threads delta9 discussed porosity and provided information on methods one could use to test the suitability of various materials.
Sorry I can not give you a link to that, perhaps someone else could, the subject is a neat one, and was well covered.

 

[Oysters]

In previous threads delta9 discussed porosity and provided information on methods one could use to test the suitability of various materials.
Sorry I can not give you a link to that, perhaps someone else could, the subject is a neat one, and was well covered.

D9 from post 894 in this thread:

"a kitchen counter capillary rise test can be done with 20 oz's of material cleaned thoroughly and then cooked bone dry.

take a 20 oz clear plastic pop bottle that's clean and dry. fill it with the material. drill a 1/8" hole in the cap. and another one in the bottom and stand it upright in a shallow dish with about a 1/4" of water in it.

wait three days. you should be able to see the water level in the bottle. this is capillary rise and with the ppk needs to be at least 6"."

 

[mufinman]

D9 from post 894 in this thread:

"a kitchen counter capillary rise test can be done with 20 oz's of material cleaned thoroughly and then cooked bone dry.

take a 20 oz clear plastic pop bottle that's clean and dry. fill it with the material. drill a 1/8" hole in the cap. and another one in the bottom and stand it upright in a shallow dish with about a 1/4" of water in it.

wait three days. you should be able to see the water level in the bottle. this is capillary rise and with the ppk needs to be at least 6"."

if one were to fill the bottle with dry turface and with the same holes, top and bottom stand the bottle up in the water. shouldnt it wick up to around the 6" mark? after 3 days?

 

[delta9nxs]

if one were to fill the bottle with dry turface and with the same holes, top and bottom stand the bottle up in the water. shouldnt it wick up to around the 6" mark? after 3 days?

should be more like 7".

for a proper test the material should be screened, rinsed clean, and cooked dry.

 

[MrAwder]

Does anyone else get algae growing on their media, right where the water is fed in? I have a little circle of green algae in each pot. In a couple it turned brown like it is dying off. Maybe I'm not letting it dry out enough?

 

[av8or]

Does anyone else get algae growing on their media, right where the water is fed in? I have a little circle of green algae in each pot. In a couple it turned brown like it is dying off. Maybe I'm not letting it dry out enough?

Yeah, it happens. Don't worry too much about it. All you have to do is cover the media with panda/orca film or something light blocking. Another idea is to use 1/4" gravel on the top inch to block light. My outdoor sites get less algae than my indoor plants but I believe that's because I've put a little more turface in the outdoor sites, essentially blocking the light where the water wicks up to, disallowing the algae buildup. If it's concentrated around your feed spout, then just cover it with a light reflective material and problem is solved.

 

[McKush]

Does anyone else get algae growing on their media, right where the water is fed in? I have a little circle of green algae in each pot. In a couple it turned brown like it is dying off. Maybe I'm not letting it dry out enough?

yeah, it doesn't hurt anything though. I just transplanted a cotton candy from veg into one of my ppk sites which had some surface algae because it has been getting fed without any plant for a few weeks. the algae was all pretty much superficial.

 

[McKush]

anyone adding bleach to their bulk res with RO/DI jacks+calcnit??? if so what dilution are you using safely?

I'm not currently using any sort of sanitizer but have wondered if i should be.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

anyone adding bleach to their bulk res with RO/DI jacks+calcnit??? if so what dilution are you using safely?

I'm not currently using any sort of sanitizer but have wondered if i should be.

ive used 1ml/10 gallons of water every 4 to 5 days. by the time it blends in with the control res n plant res's, it will be a very low n safe concentration.

If I was running a rdwc, I go as low as 1ml/20 gallons.

I don't know if sanitizing in this system is really needed though. I know I don't do it. If anything, id just do a res change once or twice a cycle if I had a imbalance.

If u have a significant root disease problem, it might be a viable option, but I don't think u will need it as a preventative cause ur roots are growing in a medium, n not in the water.

Maybe a beneficial bacteria tea or some bb concentrate watered thru the medium would offer u some extra root protection, if u wanna add something. but again, not needed to crush it in this system.

 

[McKush]

i haven't seen any bad effects by not using it yet either. hadn't really seen bleech mentioned in the ppk threads so was curious. at least so far i'm unaware of any root issues, i haven't had any plants not thrive so far in a ppk so will have to wait and see if i ever get it.

 

[theplaya]

Hey for those that use pulses instead of floods how much do u feed each site? Time intervals?