a ppk for a 6 plant limit

[OG_TGR]

Thanks, I do see that coming up frequently.....I just wish there was a place to buy it other than online?

EDIT: I found a local place!!!!

I'm going tomorrow!

I guess from there I need a better cycle timer.....I'm going to read back through this thread tomorrow, I feel there is something elemental that I must be missing...

 

[av8or]

Jacks is definitely the way to go.

When I used Napa floor dry, the media never seemed to dry out like the turface does. I think it contributed to me drowning plants early on. You really have to wash that stuff well to get the fines out.

 

[delta9nxs]

Hello everyone.

First off, huge thanks to D9 for putting this whole thing together, this is surely going to be revolutionary for so many.
I've toyed and tinkered for many years, actually. I've made moves to automate so many aspects of the tinkering, that somewhere along the way I think I began to lose track of the whole idea of the automation, which was to SIMPLIFY!!

So, this, is a godsend!

The past few months, in my quest to simplify, I've somehow also developed a brown thumb, and have somehow been able to fuck up the most unfuckable set ups!!

This system seems to make so much sense, and I am looking forward to getting it dialed in.

Here is where I am at, currently.

I have the 70qt muck buckets, and the 40s weren't available anywhere locally.
I have them set in with the corresponding 5gal "trays".
I've built the tailpieces just as described here, and filled with Napa 8822.

I am currently using Ionic nutes, a one part "solution".
I have about a 5" air gap from the bottom of my trays to the surface of the nutes.
My nutes are delivered by a ring with 12 .125" openings, powered by a huge mag drive.
I started with 1 minute every 90 minutes, which would flood my trays about 2/3 of the way up.
This seemed to keep them a little too moist so I cut back to half that (1 minutes every 3 hours), 8x/day.
I changed this before I went out of town for a few days and now that I have returned, it appears I am getting algae at the watering points......
I have 1 600w HPS running 18hrs/day.
My temps are around 70-75deg F.
My tds is 600ppm, and ph is 5.8-6.0.
I also appear to be showing nute deficiencies.....
This was beginning to show before, when I had the nutes a little lower in tds, around 450-500....but I see no change after bumping them up.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.......I am at a loss, idk wtf I am screwing up here.....


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hey og, welcome! your plants are drowning. drop the water level to the lowest possible depth still keeping the tail piece wet creating the maximum air gap and cut back even more on the feed. i think 30 seconds every 4 hours for a start.

the napa stuff out of the bag is full of fine particle that both increases water retention and reduces air filled porosity.

the ionic nutrients are ok but the jack's will outperform it.

you might try turning off the top feed for a day first to dry the medium down a little.

 

[ayekay]

I know a lot of you guys use only the jacks hydro with calnit but has anyone used jacks blossom booster along with and/or alternating with the hydro/calnitrate? What about the addition of Epsom salts? I failed my last ppk attempt with dynagro and I think it came to not knowing what strength to feed in my particular environment. I ordered jacks hydro and calnit along with the blossom booster as advised by Krystal at Jr peters as she states to run the blossom booster the first two weeks of flower.
D9 or anybody use the blossom booster or should I just stick with the hydro/calnit?

 

[delta9nxs]

I know a lot of you guys use only the jacks hydro with calnit but has anyone used jacks blossom booster along with and/or alternating with the hydro/calnitrate? What about the addition of Epsom salts? I failed my last ppk attempt with dynagro and I think it came to not knowing what strength to feed in my particular environment. I ordered jacks hydro and calnit along with the blossom booster as advised by Krystal at Jr peters as she states to run the blossom booster the first two weeks of flower.
D9 or anybody use the blossom booster or should I just stick with the hydro/calnit?

hey, and a big welcome to you too!

my advice is to get your growing to the point where everything is running smoothly with the jack's and calcinit first, then try the boosters.

we've got people growing 3 lb plants without boosters or any other additives.

you should not need mag sulfate with most strains using jacks as it has 6.36% in it already which is about twice what everyone else puts in their ferts.

post harvest tissue analysis shows that the plant is made up of 94% carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, none of which are in the nutrient mixes we buy so dialing in the environment is crucial.

 

[ayekay]

hey, and a big welcome to you too!

my advice is to get your growing to the point where everything is running smoothly with the jack's and calcinit first, then try the boosters.

we've got people growing 3 lb plants without boosters or any other additives.

you should not need mag sulfate with most strains using jacks as it has 6.36% in it already which is about twice what everyone else puts in their ferts.

post harvest tissue analysis shows that the plant is made up of 94% carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, none of which are in the nutrient mixes we buy so dialing in the environment is crucial.

Excellent, thanks for the quick reply! Gonna follow your advice and hone my skills with the 1/.67 to be another one of the prodigy's with three p trees to match my trusty cement mixer/turface washer. Already seeing the jacks out perform dynagro foliage pro/ protekt in veg. How many gallons of medium to get a three p tree? Are the 7 gallon tsc tubs capable of that?

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Yes, the 7 Gal tubs should be capable of a 3lb plant.


I haven't gotten the final tally on my 7 plant tree room, but I should have the numbers soon. I managed about 2lb plants out out of my 1st run in the PPK, but I was using coco and ran into some drainage issues.

This latest round I upgraded my corner lamps to 1000w and grew for the most part a lot healthier plants using only Jacks/CalNit in washed Napa 8822. The strain was unknown and not dialed, but I almost have to have done better then my previous attempt. Time will tell, but I think I'll be pleasantly surprised.

The PPK won't disappoint.

 

[sprinkl]

What other mediums could possibly work well?
Calcinated clay is not to be found where I live. The cat litter I use looks like it but how can I be for sure and how to know they didn't add chemicals to it?
I did find some bonsai blogger saying "zeolite" is the best medium he could find for his bonsais. It's used for purification, absorbing oil, for animal cages, soil amendment, comes in different sizes.

Otherwise, what about coco, or soil with a good dose of perlite? Perlite floats so that would not be ideal. Sand then, or gravel, in combination with soil?

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Hey Sprinkl, I'm sure others will have some responses for you, but from what I can gather Turface (calcined clay) really is the best suited media for the system. Floor Dry (a diatomaceous earth product) has also worked very well for many of us. Napa 8822 is the brand, but others might also work with cleaning and screening to remove the dust/fines. Your mileage may vary however so be warned. I've read of some bad experiences with other brands of floor dry or oil spill products... they essentially can break down quickly and turn into a cement like consistency.

The key is to find a media with a 33% air porosity. If you are unsure of how to determine this D9 has a post demonstrating how to determine your porosity with a plastic cup. We can probably dig it up if ya need it.

Your need the media to have some capillary capabilities in order to wick, but also be free-draining.


Coco is do-able, but several of us had problems with the tailpiece draining properly once the media compacted a bit. Perlite will float out of the media if doing a full flood so I'd avoid it. Media with a higher porosity might work, but I'd might suggest avoiding the full flood and operate the system doing a "wave pulse" (small volumes dispersed frequently as opposed to a full flood).

I'm sure others will chime in, but I believe you're going to just have to grab some different samples of some stuff available locally to you and do a porosity test. You'll likely find a decent substitute, but prepare for a learning curve. You need a clean media that can wick, that can drain freely & doesn't compact too much which can lead to drainage issues and tailpiece plugging.

 

[delta9nxs]

Excellent, thanks for the quick reply! Gonna follow your advice and hone my skills with the 1/.67 to be another one of the prodigy's with three p trees to match my trusty cement mixer/turface washer. Already seeing the jacks out perform dynagro foliage pro/ protekt in veg. How many gallons of medium to get a three p tree? Are the 7 gallon tsc tubs capable of that?

5 gals in the tractor supply tubs.

 

[delta9nxs]

What other mediums could possibly work well?
Calcinated clay is not to be found where I live. The cat litter I use looks like it but how can I be for sure and how to know they didn't add chemicals to it?
I did find some bonsai blogger saying "zeolite" is the best medium he could find for his bonsais. It's used for purification, absorbing oil, for animal cages, soil amendment, comes in different sizes.

Otherwise, what about coco, or soil with a good dose of perlite? Perlite floats so that would not be ideal. Sand then, or gravel, in combination with soil?

high sprinkl! welcome to you too! this is turning into a party!

i have done a lot of media experiments in these things and, for the full flood turface or the napa stuff is the best.

but i also did a bunch of perlite and coco. alone and together.

i liked perlite cut with about 10% coco a lot but it must be used with a wave type pulse.

we are coming to the conclusion that a wave type pulse is the way to go for bigger containers or a larger numbers of containers.

it is technically easier to achieve requiring a smaller pump, smaller reservoirs, and you can get by with smaller lines for flood and return.

perlite and coco are everywhere.

i am about to build some larger systems and we will go with the wave pulse for these reasons.

 

[OG_TGR]

hey og, welcome! your plants are drowning. drop the water level to the lowest possible depth still keeping the tail piece wet creating the maximum air gap and cut back even more on the feed. i think 30 seconds every 4 hours for a start.

the napa stuff out of the bag is full of fine particle that both increases water retention and reduces air filled porosity.

the ionic nutrients are ok but the jack's will outperform it.

you might try turning off the top feed for a day first to dry the medium down a little.

Thank you so much, that is exactly what I was needing to hear!

I did rinse the 8822 very, very well to eliminate as much of the fines as I could, and I was looking into making some sort of recycling water system, to avoid putting so much down the drain, in the process!
I considered doing something that had a sort of "settling reservior",that basically decanted the clean water off the top.

I will do just what you recommended and I've got some of the Jack's on order, since the local distributors carry Jacks, but not that specific one.

I'll hopefully be updating with some monsters, at some point!!

 

[av8or]

i am about to build some larger systems and we will go with the wave pulse for these reasons.

I think I've stumbled onto this conclusion accidentally. Initially I was flooding but now I'm probably getting a little over half the 7 gal tub full each time and the plants respond better. I wonder though, if you dial that flood back, should the frequency increase or stay at the 90 minute mark? I'm afraid to feed more as they seem as wet as they can be without drowning. I guess what I'm asking is, what is the ideal pulse saturation and frequency for the larger sites?

 

[delta9nxs]

I think I've stumbled onto this conclusion accidentally. Initially I was flooding but now I'm probably getting a little over half the 7 gal tub full each time and the plants respond better. I wonder though, if you dial that flood back, should the frequency increase or stay at the 90 minute mark? I'm afraid to feed more as they seem as wet as they can be without drowning. I guess what I'm asking is, what is the ideal pulse saturation and frequency for the larger sites?

this is heavily dependent upon your environment. what works for me might not be enough or too much for you, even with the same strain and medium.

you might have xyz lighting and i might have abc lighting, which drive the plant at differing metabolic rates. your room might have a much lower or higher temperature or rh. nutrient strength or composition could be different.

we have 3 tools for controlling moisture in the root zone.

the "air gap" establishes moisture retention in the entire medium. by moving it up or down we can change the profile, making it wetter or drier.

the pulse feed has two components, the duration of each event and the interval between events.

using all three you can precision dial the root zone conditions to match your environment.

watch the plants. you can't go by any arbitrary standards. learn to recognize the early signs that the plant is too wet or too dry.

before damage occurs.

having said this we now can get into endless arguments about what environmental parameters to run.

i like light at 1500 umols, lights on temperature at 86f, lights off at78f, rh 55% +/- 5%, and co2 at around 750-900 ppm.

i know that, using the tsc tubs with turface and these environmental conditions, that i can set the timer at a full flood every 90 minutes and forget about it.

with a wave type pulse it's a matter of observation and correction. small amounts frequently is the way to go. it will grow the plant faster than heavy shots far apart.

start with a set amount like a quart every 30 minutes and proceed from there.

it's ok for the surface to have a little visible dry crust on it but still at one inch down the medium should have visible wetness. by that i mean glistening in the light, not just darkened from water.

 

[av8or]

When the full flood occurs, all gasses are expelled from the root zone and are replaced with "fresh air" that gets sucked down into the media as the water drains. This o2 exchange still happens sufficiently with a pulse? At first glance it seems like it would barely "plunge" any gasses at all. Or am I forgetting something?

 

[delta9nxs]

When the full flood occurs, all gasses are expelled from the root zone and are replaced with "fresh air" that gets sucked down into the media as the water drains. This o2 exchange still happens sufficiently with a pulse? At first glance it seems like it would barely "plunge" any gasses at all. Or am I forgetting something?

a pulsed water application is considered to be a subset of continuous drip irrigation techniques in general but differs in that the solution is put out in intermittent "slugs" or bursts.

this burst of water hitting an already wet medium travels through the medium like a wave, pushing and pulling gases as it goes.

into an already wet medium it also displays hysteresis or "lag" because water has extreme coherent tendencies and molecularly "jumps" to wet while resisting going into dry.

this lag allows lateral dispersion to occur.

it also re-blends salts and refreshes o2, expels co2, and replaces lost water.

some of the largest plants in the picture thread were grown using the wave pulse technique.

 

[twist1uc]

a pulsed water application is considered to be a subset of continuous drip irrigation techniques in general but differs in that the solution is put out in intermittent "slugs" or bursts.

this burst of water hitting an already wet medium travels through the medium like a wave, pushing and pulling gases as it goes.

into an already wet medium it also displays hysteresis or "lag" because water has extreme coherent tendencies and molecularly "jumps" to wet while resisting going into dry.

this lag allows lateral dispersion to occur.

it also re-blends salts and refreshes o2, expels co2, and replaces lost water.

some of the largest plants in the picture thread were grown using the wave pulse technique.

So, do you prefer the pulse method over the flood?

What would be the biggest advantages and disadvantages of both the pulse and flood method?

(If you don't mind please)

 

[delta9nxs]

So, do you prefer the pulse method over the flood?

What would be the biggest advantages and disadvantages of both the pulse and flood method?

(If you don't mind please)

if i were doing a big room or site with a large number of plant positions i would use the wave pulse. for a smaller number of plants i would use the full flood.

we really are not seeing much difference between the two methods on final yield.

so it becomes a matter of which is easier to achieve for the individual grower.

the full flood is easier to apply from a decision making standpoint because it removes the variable of deciding how much to apply. full is full. it is easier to balance the flow to each container because you don't have to measure anything.

but it takes a bigger pump per number of containers and a larger reservoir so you don't starve the pump. large diameter lines are required. we are finding that anything above about 8 containers starts compounding the requirements.

the wave pulse is more detail to set up but is good for a large number of containers. a single large pump can do a whole room. i personally have supplied 24 large plants with a single mag-drive 2400. as you don't put out much solution each pulse the reservoir can be smaller per plant.

initially setting up a wave pulse is a little time consuming but not too bad.

 

[Grow4Flow]

anybody having any issues with this new blue colored Calnit? just started using it and im now seeing some issues in my plants.

 

[gregor_mendel]

Little Giant 5 Quart DuraFlex Plastic Utility Feed Pan

Little Giant 5 Quart DuraFlex Plastic Utility Feed Pan

The same manufacturer of most of the muck tubs and feed pans
(except the 7 gallon) that are featured in this thread makes a 5 quart feed pan with a diameter of 11.5 inches.

The brand is Little Giant, and the part number is P5BLACK. (or P5 insert other color)

I want to use them as the media container of a plant module, nested in a five gallon bucket.

Does anyone know if this has been done?
None of my local suppliers have this pan so I can test fit in a store.

Thanks in advance for any help, and if you find they do fit, please purchase twelve of said pan, and send them to me.