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2024 US Presidential Election

Who will become next President in U.S. what do you think?

  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 35 57.4%
  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 26 42.6%

  • Total voters
    61

greyfader

Well-known member
@trichrider my dear trichy, you are a classic example of a cult follower. MAGA is a cult, Trump is a cult leader. and all of his followers are the cult sheeple.

again, to help de-program the MAGA cult victims i offer another definition to help you clarify your thinking and save yourselves;

Cult is a term, in most contexts pejorative, for a relatively small group which is typically led by a charismatic and self-appointed leader, who tightly controls its members, requiring unwavering devotion to a set of beliefs and practices which are considered deviant (outside the norms of society).[1] This term is also used for a new religious movement or other social group which is defined by its unusual religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs and rituals,[2] or its common interest in a particular person, object, or goal.

ring a bell?

as far as me being a leftist, MAGA cultist see everyone to the left of their unsustainable position to be anti-right.

i am a conservative if viewed from the normal perspective of examining one's beliefs from a constitutional standpoint. i strongly believe in the First Amendment's guarantee of Freedom of Speech, and the Second Amendment. i take it literally and i come from a gun-toting family, i was given a 20 gauge shotgun for my 7th birthday by my grandfather, dad, and uncles. when i was 13 i rode my bicycle downtown in a small southern town and bought a Ruger Bearcat revolver at the Western Auto store with my own money i saved from lawn mowing. no parents, or ID required. i have owned several small gun collections and i don't leave the house without one these days with all the craziness going on. at the age of 14 i was a dues-paying member of the NRA until i needed the money to pay for dates when i got interested in girls. It wasn't a difficult decision. let's see, support the NRA or possibly get laid.

i am against mass immigration but not because i hate anyone. i don't think our country can economically support the influx of 2 million poor people every year. you keep trying to blame the Democrats for what is going on at the border right now but they are just following the laws that were put in place by both parties many years ago. the US Border Patrol is apprehending more people crossing illegally than during any other administration in history. they are desperately trying to do their jobs under very difficult conditions.

the real solution to the border problem is not at the border. it's in the congress of the US. they need to re-write the immigration asylum laws. the current law allows people to present themselves at the border and ask for asylum. this is no longer a viable option. if they were to require all asylum seekers to apply at the US embassies in their home countries and wait there for the decision we wouldn't have this mess at the border.

it would cost some money to implement because they would have to expand facilities and hire specialists just to deal with the applications. but that would still be far cheaper than having to process millions of people at the border.

so, i want better immigration laws and no illegal immigration. is that the stance of a leftist?

and let me tell you what else i'm conservative about. Treason, Traitors, and those who violate their Oath of Office by supporting insurrection. i strongly support the 14th Amendment.

i support our military and honor the ones who gave their lives for their country. i do not call dead soldiers or captured soldiers losers like you know who. i support the combat wounded by charitable donations. i'm sure you do too, right?

when i lived in Oregon i took in a veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan who was homeless and suffering from PTSD. i helped him get a job, find a place to live, and outright bought him a truck to get back and forth to work. i fed him and housed him at my own expense until he got stabilized.

i voted for Reagan, Bush the elder, and Bush the junior the first time.

i am also a fiscal conservative. i believe in accountability and reducing the debt. trump raised the national debt by 7.8 Trillion during his term in office. far more than any other president in history. this after a campaign promise to reduce the national debt.


from this paper.

The National Debt Increased Under Trump Despite His Promise to Reduce It
Daily total national debt from 2009 to the end of his term.


1704662794394.png


i detest Communism and equally detest Autocratic Dictatorships. i don't want extremists of any stripe in control.

am i still a leftist? no, i'm a moderate conservative who you want to paint as leftist because i can't stand a liar, cheat, thief, pervert, and insurrectionist. because i'm not in the cult of the mindless.

i don't "like" Biden or the Democratic Party, but i will vote for them to help save our country from a madman.
 
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RobFromTX

Well-known member
Are you referring to the Illuminati? If so i'd love to see a photo reference. Ive been looking for an Illuminati my whole adult life
 

greyfader

Well-known member
this country has been owned and controlled by extremists and madmen long before trump got elected.
true, and it's time to step up and stop another one. perhaps the worst and most damaging one in our history.

we have never had the choices we should have had. but we still should do what we can to limit the damage.

by the way, jan 6 was not led or instigated by the FBI, the convicted are not hostages.

if you or i physically attacked a law enforcement officer we would be sitting in jail too.

there was, without a doubt, a conspiracy to stop an official act of Congress and to falsely overturn a legitimate election. many of the convicted confessed.

what do you call the fake elector scheme? a legal act? or an attempt to defraud the voters?

it's been 3 years and Trump and the MAGAtards have not presented one credible piece of evidence of mass voter fraud.

what we have going on right now is an attempt to rewrite the history of jan 6. an event we all witnessed in real-time. it's an insult to everyone's intelligence.

immediately after jan 6 Mccarthy and Ted Cruz and many other Republicans stated on national tv that Trump was wrong and the attack on the Capitol was wrong. now the same ones are telling a different story for propaganda reasons to influence the next election. were they right then or are they right now? fortunately, for them, the MAGAtards have short memory spans but no one else is buying it.

the greatest dereliction of duty committed by any US president in history was the 3 hours Trump sat in the White House doing nothing during the attack on the Capitol.

those "peaceful" demonstrators beat the crap out of the Capitol police with fists,feet, sticks, flagpoles, and anything else they could find to use as a weapon. sprayed them with bear spray.

sent over 140 officers to the hospital.

but i don't have to tell you about this, do i? because you saw it on live feed too just like i did. you heard the confessions of the perpetrators, just like i did.

the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers, crying like babies while confessing to conspiring against the government of the United States of America.

many of the convicted rioters who have gotten out of prison are publically stating that they were misled and lied to by Trump. and regretted being indoctrinated into a cult. their words, not mine.

cannavore, i find you disingenuous because what you say you believe is contradicted by your support for

Trump et al.

i could be reading you wrong so maybe you could share a few hundred pages of your "manifesto" with us to clarify your position.

MAGA is not the right. it is something way beyond that. it is a fascist movement.
 
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Cannavore

Well-known member
Veteran
Are you referring to the Illuminati? If so i'd love to see a photo reference. Ive been looking for an Illuminati my whole adult life
if that's what you wanna call the capitalist ruling class okay

true, and it's time to step up and stop another one. perhaps the worst and most damaging one in our history.

we have never had the choices we should have had. but we still should do what we can to limit the damage.

by the way, jan 6 was not led or instigated by the FBI, the convicted are not hostages.

if you or i physically attacked a law enforcement officer we would be sitting in jail too.

there was, without a doubt, a conspiracy to stop an official act of Congress and to falsely overturn a legitimate election. many of the convicted confessed.

what do you call the fake elector scheme? a legal act? or an attempt to defraud the voters?

it's been 3 years and Trump and the MAGAtards have not presented one credible piece of evidence of mass voter fraud.

what we have going on right now is an attempt to rewrite the history of jan 6. an event we all witnessed in real-time. it's an insult to everyone's intelligence.

immediately after jan 6 Mccarthy and Ted Cruz and many other Republicans stated on national tv that Trump was wrong and the attack on the Capitol was wrong. now the same ones are telling a different story for propaganda reasons to influence the next election. were they right then or are they right now? fortunately, for them, the MAGAtards have short memory spans but no one else is buying it.

the greatest dereliction of duty committed by any US president in history was the 3 hours Trump sat in the White House doing nothing during the attack on the Capitol.

those "peaceful" demonstrators beat the crap out of the Capitol police with fists,feet, sticks, flagpoles, and anything else they could find to use as a weapon. sprayed them with bear spray.

sent over 140 officers to the hospital.

but i don't have to tell you about this, do i? because you saw it on live feed too just like i did. you heard the confessions of the perpetrators, just like i did.

the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers, crying like babies while confessing to conspiring against the government of the United States of America.

many of the convicted rioters who have gotten out of prison are publically stating that they were misled and lied to by Trump. and regretted being indoctrinated into a cult. their words, not mine.

cannavore, i find you disingenuous because what you say you believe is contradicted by your support for

Trump et al.

i could be reading you wrong so maybe you could share a few hundred pages of your "manifesto" with us to clarify your position.

MAGA is not the right. it is something way beyond that. it is a fascist movement.
i support trump now? wtf thats news to me!
 

greyfader

Well-known member
if that's what you wanna call the capitalist ruling class okay


i support trump now? wtf thats news to me!
like i said, i find your posts confusing. you say you are attacking the democrats from the left and then you make remarks that seem to be in support of Trump.

seriously, you are the one who could resolve this apparent conflict by thoroughly explaining your politics.

i will apologize in advance if you will do this. i'm not being facetious, i would like to understand your position as it does seem to be a unique one on this thread.

you seem like a smart guy so please share your ideas with the community.
 

Cannavore

Well-known member
Veteran
like i said, i find your posts confusing. you say you are attacking the democrats from the left and then you make remarks that seem to be in support of Trump.

seriously, you are the one who could resolve this apparent conflict by thoroughly explaining your politics.

i will apologize in advance if you will do this. i'm not being facetious, i would like to understand your position as it does seem to be a unique one on this thread.

you seem like a smart guy so please share your ideas with the community.
My politics are pretty simple. I'm not voting for right wingers and imperialists, which is 99.9% of the two party system.

Neoliberalism is why you now have a fascist insurgency pretending to be a political party and voting for more neolibs isn't going to fix anything (nor will voting in general).
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
(nor will voting in general).
now, maybe you could explain why you think NOT voting will bring any relief. wait, let me get some popcorn, this might take a while...:shucks::lurk: if one refuses to vote for the lesser of two evils (because it IS evil), are you not, in effect, supporting the worse option ? :snap out of it:
 

Cannavore

Well-known member
Veteran
left libertarians are the real libertarians. just like leftists are the real anarchists. the right hijacks everything.



"In the mid-19th century,[10] libertarianism originated as a form of left-wing politics such as anti-authoritarian and anti-state socialists like anarchists,[11] especially social anarchists,[12] but more generally libertarian communists/Marxists and libertarian socialists.[13][14] These libertarians sought to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production, or else to restrict their purview or effects to usufruct property norms, in favor of common or cooperative ownership and management, viewing private property as a barrier to freedom and liberty.[19] While all libertarians support some level of individual rights, left-libertarians differ by supporting an egalitarian redistribution of natural resources.[20] Left-libertarian[26] ideologies include anarchist schools of thought, alongside many other anti-paternalist and New Left schools of thought centered around economic egalitarianism as well as geolibertarianism, green politics, market-oriented left-libertarianism and the Steiner–Vallentyne school.[30] After the fall of the Soviet Union, libertarian socialism grew in popularity and influence as part of anti-war, anti-capitalist and anti- and alter-globalisation movements."
 

greyfader

Well-known member
left libertarians are the real libertarians. just like leftists are the real anarchists. the right hijacks everything.



"In the mid-19th century,[10] libertarianism originated as a form of left-wing politics such as anti-authoritarian and anti-state socialists like anarchists,[11] especially social anarchists,[12] but more generally libertarian communists/Marxists and libertarian socialists.[13][14] These libertarians sought to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production, or else to restrict their purview or effects to usufruct property norms, in favor of common or cooperative ownership and management, viewing private property as a barrier to freedom and liberty.[19] While all libertarians support some level of individual rights, left-libertarians differ by supporting an egalitarian redistribution of natural resources.[20] Left-libertarian[26] ideologies include anarchist schools of thought, alongside many other anti-paternalist and New Left schools of thought centered around economic egalitarianism as well as geolibertarianism, green politics, market-oriented left-libertarianism and the Steiner–Vallentyne school.[30] After the fall of the Soviet Union, libertarian socialism grew in popularity and influence as part of anti-war, anti-capitalist and anti- and alter-globalisation movements."
well, thank you! i'm starting to see where you're coming from. so you consider yourself to be a left-libertarian?

that's kind of a rare breed these days. if you were a wild animal you would be on the extinction watch list.
 

mean mr.mustard

I Pass Satellites
Veteran
i support trump now? wtf thats news to me!

Not necessarily.

You do seem to enjoy funneling the general direction towards that fashion.

I recall that you supported Bernie.... but recollection is not supplanting current events.

You are one of the few people here who understands that even the furthest leftist in this country is still right of center as far as a world view is considered...

Don't start acting surprised if someone else noticed.
 

Cannavore

Well-known member
Veteran
just reading the writing on the wall.

neolibs are doing the bare minimum and are within the margin of error to lose to trump lol. that's just an embarrassing failure as an organization. an FDR type social democrat would be smashing trump by double digits right now, it wouldn't be remotely close. it's almost as if losing to trump is preferable to any sort of left wing populist movement because the ruling class does not want to cede any power.

it's almost like if you lie and do nothing you promised to do, while downplaying covid, arming a genocidal government in Israel, voters are gonna be pissed off lol.

the parties need to be purged, nationalized, and expanded out of the two party system. in other words, it's never going to happen because they're not going to give up power. we're well past the point of electoralism.
 

GOT_BUD?

Weed is a gateway to gardening
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Only today could the far right and far left end up on the same Venn Diagram.

This 4th Turning is WILD y'all!!
 

greyfader

Well-known member
just reading the writing on the wall.

neolibs are doing the bare minimum and are within the margin of error to lose to trump lol. that's just an embarrassing failure as an organization. an FDR type social democrat would be smashing trump by double digits right now, it wouldn't be remotely close. it's almost as if losing to trump is preferable to any sort of left wing populist movement because the ruling class does not want to cede any power.

it's almost like if you lie and do nothing you promised to do, while downplaying covid, arming a genocidal government in Israel, voters are gonna be pissed off lol.

the parties need to be purged, nationalized, and expanded out of the two party system. in other words, it's never going to happen because they're not going to give up power. we're well past the point of electoralism.
i again apologize to you for misreading your comments. thank you for clarifying your position. yes, we need to ditch the two-party system. elections these days are about who gets to fuck us next and for how long. i tire of being the fuckee. because of the internal hierarchy system both parties use in Congress, a newly elected, first-time lawmaker has no power and must obey the party line or they will have no support for their agenda trying to help the people of the district or state they represent.

this automatically channels them into the funnel of corruption. once in they never get out. there are very few altruistically motivated people in Congress. i see most politicians as blood-sucking thieves living high luxury lifestyles on the backs of the working class.

term limits would help mitigate this accumulation of power that the senior members of Congress wield.

your quote defining left libertarianism mentions redistribution of wealth. upfront that sounds communist. but if the means to redistribute was through legal taxation whereby the wealthy paid at least their fair share it would be a legal act of democracy. Trump's only real legislative accomplishment during his term was a tax break for the wealthy. notice you didn't hear wealthy Democrats bitching much. If the wealthy paid a substantial tax working-class families making less than $100,000 per year wouldn't have to pay any. considering that most are in the 30% bracket it would be a tremendous relief of their burden.

so, yeah, i'm not enamored with the current state of affairs. there is something wrong with the idea that being a politician can be a lifelong career.
 
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