2024 State of the genepool discussion.

[Brother Nature]

This is a pretty cool thread though, even with all the digressions. It's something I have also noticed, even all the way down here at the bottom of the wold. Instagrammed and hype strains seem to be all that the consumers want these days, which is funny to me as a grower because we are so far from the US, there are almost no actual clone-onlys that make it here, most of them will be white labelled seeds or s1's with very little resemblance to the 'clones of instagram' strains, but people will read on strainly what they're supposed to be getting with the high from these plants and that dictates their experience. I think legalization has contributed to the 'customer dictates the market' type of effect we're seeing these days. Genetics don't seem to matter much, it's all about hype and marketing. I blame the cookies guys for a lot of that... On occasion I'll get a buyer that wants me to send pics of the strains and 99% of the time they will choose what they think is the best looking strain, yet it is never the best of what's on offer.

Most people these days will buy a Mercedes because they want the three pointed star to show off to their friends that they're successful or whatever, despite the fact that they haven't made a reliable or interesting car since the early 90's. I see the cannabis community a lot like this, but luckily there are those of us around who will still buy a classic Mercedes because we like the old school engineering and want to restore it to it's former glory, I think IC mag is a great place for this type of thinking and it's good to see it being discussed. I don't think the gene pool is ruined, but it's just a lot harder to find reliable gems these days as it's become so dilluted with the crap that sells well, luckily there are still people around who realise this and are reworking the old reliable strains or even still out there collecting interesting landraces and heirloom strains from odd places around the world. This thread itself has inspired me to explore some more stuff from the likes of RSC in the near future so I can try to create something interesting and unique rather than bland and sellable.

 

[kro-magnon]

How is the state of the genepool? A picture speaks a thousand words.

This has nothing to do with the global genepool, it is a local problem to your country, not the world. And it is about buds not genetics;

 

[linde]

This has nothing to do with the global genepool, it is a local problem to your country, not the world. And it is about buds not genetics;

It's over your head bud. The whole point that I made was that no way no how would a world full of great genetics EVER go for $6 a quarter ounce. If the genetics are so great then why aren't the dispensaries growing them? I would gladly pay $250 an oz for good weed....not $25 an oz for mediocre washed out stuff The world is flooded with shit genetics. So there u have it lol! Seems everything I have to say you want to correct me...hell I'll just have you write my next post for me.. you seem to know it all.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

It's over your head bud. The whole point that I made was that no way no how would a world full of great genetics EVER go for $6 a quarter ounce. If the genetics are so great then why aren't the dispensaries growing them? I would gladly pay $250 an oz for good weed....not $25 an oz for mediocre washed out stuff The world is flooded with shit genetics. So there u have it lol! Seems everything I have to say you want to correct me...hell I'll just have you write my next post for me.. you seem to know it all.

I don't know where you're at but some of the dispensaries here have awesome stuff. This is Colorado though.

 

[kro-magnon]

It's over your head bud. The whole point that I made was that no way no how would a world full of great genetics EVER go for $6 a quarter ounce. If the genetics are so great then why aren't the dispensaries growing them? I would gladly pay $250 an oz for good weed....not $25 an oz for mediocre washed out stuff The world is flooded with shit genetics. So there u have it lol! Seems everything I have to say you want to correct me...hell I'll just have you write my next post for me.. you seem to know it all.

I'd not have to retake your post if you were not talking of your little corner of the world and pretend it's like that everywhere which is far from the reality. You have wanted legalization in the USA, what did you expect would happen? The big money players got involved and now small scale growers are fucked to make a buck, if you couldn't see this coming I could from miles away. But this specific flooded market you're in is a very localized problem who don't happen everywhere in the world and don't reflect the global gene pool at all.
The buds sold are the ones the most asked by the customers in your area, ie is the demand who dictates the sales and the taste of the majority of the buyers might not be yours. So if you want something different than what's offered in dispensaries around you grow it, now you can make it safely. You'll find a lot more diversity in the seeds you can buy compared to the buds in the legal circuit.

 

[JetLife175]

I'd not have to retake your post if you were not talking of your little corner of the world and pretend it's like that everywhere which is far from the reality. You have wanted legalization in the USA, what did you expect would happen? The big money players got involved and now small scale growers are fucked to make a buck, if you couldn't see this coming I could from miles away. But this specific flooded market you're in is a very localized problem who don't happen everywhere in the world and don't reflect the global gene pool at all.
The buds sold are the ones the most asked by the customers in your area, ie is the demand who dictates the sales and the taste of the majority of the buyers might not be yours. So if you want something different than what's offered in dispensaries around you grow it, now you can make it safely. You'll find a lot more diversity in the seeds you can buy compared to the buds in the legal circuit.

So what you're saying is we can still find all the old things we used to have? Because you're making it seem really really black and white. It's alot more nuanced than your statement.

 

[kro-magnon]

I don't know what you're looking for exactly but the seed offerings today is wider than it ever was going from the latest modern hybrids to the pure landraces just brought back from original environment and all the nuances in between.
If you meant you can't find your favorite from your teen years, not surprised you can't find it decades later for multiple reasons. One being your memory of it can be wrong and many strains were destroyed by chemicals in different areas of the world and some farmers have changed their production of old local strains for more modern hybrids who can produce more. But the countries of origin of those strains still have landraces worthy of growing to find the next best thing to the one destroyed.
Look at red rider in Colombia, he grows almost exclusively landraces with great results and he is able to score very interesting seeds straight from Colombia.

 

[rasputin]

Some recent posts on here and elsewhere have brought this question up in my circle.

What do you think of the current state of the cannabis genepool in 2024 on a macro scale? I know there are a lot of people in their own lanes doing new things, some not so much. What's your opinion? Where would you like to see it go? What can be done for more variety?

There's no wrong opinion or answer. Would love to get a consensus here on IC. I feel that this place is one of the best representations of the community, if not the best.

I think there are a number of misconceptions or at least misunderstandings throughout this thread that are causing much (not all) of the disagreement and arguing.

Let’s try to establish a few points of fact so we are all talking about the same thing.

Breeding is not preservation.

Preservation is not breeding.

It’s relatively easy to be a hobbyist plant breeder. You do it for fun. Make what you want. Do whatever you please with them. Win/win.

It’s work being a preservationist. It is not easy. It is not always fun. There is practically no money in it. It is a labor of love, emphasis on the labor. This should not be the domain of hobbyists exclusively.

This is one of the reasons prohibition is still a serious issue. Plant counts have limited populations and preservation of cannabis genetics has not been done like it has with vegetables, flowers, trees, etc. The task of preservation and maintenance of existing lines has fallen on the hobbyist primarily.

If it had been occurring as it should have been, the negative effects (small population sizes, selection prior to progeny testing, overly reliant on observable traits) of the hobby breeder would be minimized. Which would make the positive contributions stand out that much more.

Many of the “breeders” today are motivated by recognition and money. Time and time again these types show their interest is not in the preservation or long term improvement of cannabis. They want attention and money, and will serve up whatever is in demand.

Hobby breeders are often motivated by the desire to find something new. They aren’t necessarily aware or even concerned of what might be lost in the process. Add in the issue of plant counts and questionable selection methods and it’s easy to see how much has been lost in the name of novelty. If proper preservation was being done, the potential negative effects of small population breeding would be drastically reduced.

This topic has been debated for decades. Vic High and Ot1 were arguing this almost 30 years ago. Hyb was railing against closet grow pollen chuckers 20 years ago. This isn’t new. These issues have been around for a long time.

They did it with Skunk #1, they did it with Northern Lights, they did it with GSC, they did it with Zkittlez… it’s the same song. If everything is being done to satisfy a short term interest, what can we expect long term?

And yet some people will post in this thread without the slightest hint of irony that everything is great because they can get just about anything they want today compared to 5, 10, 15 years ago. Yeah, that’s part of the problem. Access is not a one way street.

You can get anything you want because some sketchy clown decided to S1 a popular clone (that recombines terribly so none of the resulting plants are anything like the clone but that won’t stop people from slapping that name on it and stomping on the brand), or because a boof boy decided to sell seeds of a certain line despite never flowering them and having no documented grows of the plants.

But he swears they are real deal roadkill skunk that his Aunt got from Sam 40 years ago as payment for babysitting his dog while he was at work.

Give me a fucking break, people!

Are those seeds really what they claim? And even if so, do you really want them when they were made with only two or three plants? Is that really the best we can do?

Just because you, random grower, can access things you couldn’t before, that doesn’t mean everything is better for everyone. It simply means right now it is better for you.

But do you think that also means it can never get worse?

 

[kro-magnon]

All crops grown by human are in constant evolution because of the selections made the growers, losing some genes does not mean it is the end for good quality cannabis, the problem is everyone has a different conception of what is good quality cannabis.
The more diverse the offering of buds the better it would be but market are driven by demand and the average consumer is not interested by a landraces this is pushing this type of cannabis in a niche market where only interested people will venture.
If the fear of losing some genetics is so extreme why not organize a kind of non-profit grow op to keep them alive? Is it possible to make a structure in some of US legal state where people would contribute a little fee to finance some preservation grows and in return have access to seeds or clones? If you are so worry about the genetics act to preserve instead of complaining because the legal market is not interested in the same genetics than you are.
Maybe it would be possible to create an entity who legally keep alive all the different genetics of the world possible without plant numbers limitation or a company deciding it is their propriety. Why not trying to make an online financing campaign for something like that and in the same time asking for a legal status for doing that ?

 

[rasputin]

All crops grown by human are in constant evolution because of the selections made the growers, losing some genes does not mean it is the end for good quality cannabis, the problem is everyone has a different conception of what is good quality cannabis.
The more diverse the offering of buds the better it would be but market are driven by demand and the average consumer is not interested by a landraces this is pushing this type of cannabis in a niche market where only interested people will venture.
If the fear of losing some genetics is so extreme why not organize a kind of non-profit grow op to keep them alive? Is it possible to make a structure in some of US legal state where people would contribute a little fee to finance some preservation grows and in return have access to seeds or clones?

Why do you have such a myopic view of preservation? This constant assumption that it pertains exclusively to landraces is diminishing the effectiveness of your argument. The point has already been made that what the market demands is not always what is best for the plant. The concerns of the market are much narrower than that.

Which is one of the reasons why we shouldn’t simply concede the issue to the market. I would have thought that was obvious?

If you are so worry about the genetics act to preserve instead of complaining because the legal market is not interested in the same genetics than you are.

Why do you assume that isn’t happening? Some of us can walk and chew gum. Interesting that you use the word complaining. Doesn’t seem to apply here. And again, this issue is greater than what the legal market concerns itself with.

And it is not about the legal market growing what I want them to. Are you joking? I couldn’t possibly care less what they grow. Or did that point go right over your head in your haste to repeat yourself again?

 

[kro-magnon]

I just use landrace as an example of what you can preserve because it is where the gap between the interest for it and its genetic value is the greatest but many other genetics deserved to be preserved as well.
If the legal market is not a concern for you what's your concern with the current global gene pool?
And if my options are wider today in a prohibitionist country you can do all you want even easier in a place where growing is legal.The limitations to grow or preserve anything you want are material, this can be solved.

 

[rasputin]

I just use landrace as an example of what you can preserve because it is where the gap between the interest for it and its genetic value is the greatest but many other genetics deserved to be preserved as well.
If the legal market is not a concern for you what's your concern with the current global gene pool?

Is this a serious question?

Do you think the gene pool only relates to what is happening in the legal market? There wouldn’t be a gene pool for the legal market without, you know, the one that came before it? Hello? Bueller? Bueller?

And if my options are wider today in a prohibitionist country you can do all you want even easier in a place where growing is legal.The limitations to grow or preserve anything you want are material, this can be solved.

Time and time again you demonstrate both a complete and total misunderstanding of things in the US. If an American made the same kind of lazy assumptions about France, what would you think of them?

It isn’t nearly as simple or straightforward as you think. This idea that you can just get a plot of land and start growing on it just because it’s legal in some states is comical. It’s absurd. You can’t be serious.

 

[kro-magnon]

Is this a serious question?

Do you think the gene pool only relates to what is happening in the legal market? There wouldn’t be a gene pool for the legal market without, you know, the one that came before it? Hello? Bueller? Bueller?


Time and time again you demonstrate both a complete and total misunderstanding of things in the US. If an American made the same kind of lazy assumptions about France, what would you think of them?

It isn’t nearly as simple or straightforward as you think. This idea that you can just get a plot of land and start growing on it just because it’s legal in some states is comical. It’s absurd. You can’t be serious.

I never said the gene pool rely on legal market, for fuck sake I'm not in the legal market .
And instead of mocking my proposition why don't you explain why you can't do it, I never said I knew the laws of a foreign country? When I ask why not do this or that the only responses I get are you don't know shit, you're an idiot. Pathetic.

 

[rasputin]

I never said the gene pool rely on legal market, for fuck sake I'm not in the legal market .

You said “If the legal market is not a concern for you what's your concern with the current global gene pool?”

Does that question make sense to you?

And instead of mocking my proposition why don't you explain why you can't do it, I never said I knew the laws of a foreign country? When I ask why not do this or that the only responses I get are you don't know shit, you're an idiot. Pathetic.

Don’t get pissy because your words aren’t adding up and I’m pointing that out.

You said “you can do all you want even easier in a place where growing is legal”

But it isn’t easier or easy. And it has been explained to you multiple times in this thread why it isn’t as easy as you assume. Yet you continue to repeat these bullshit assumptions.

Costs and regulations. Costs and regulations. Do you understand? Would you like me to say it in French?

 

[kro-magnon]

You are full of bad faith, maybe make an effort because I use a foreign to exchange with you. Picking badly written sentence by me is one of pettiest thing I've seen here.
you're not worthy of continuing this discussion when you intentionally misread what I type.

 

[kro-magnon]

Maybe it would be possible to create an entity who legally keep alive all the different genetics of the world possible without plant numbers limitation or a company deciding it is their propriety. Why not trying to make an online financing campaign for something like that and in the same time asking for a legal status for doing that ?

Is it not written in correct english?

 

[troutman]

I use BT for fungus gnats from the start now along with various extras like fly tape,
yellow stickies, UV bug light and predators that control fungus gnats, springtails, etc.
Waiting too long before You start pest prevention is a battle I now avoid.

 

[JetLife175]

Is this a serious question?

Do you think the gene pool only relates to what is happening in the legal market? There wouldn’t be a gene pool for the legal market without, you know, the one that came before it? Hello? Bueller? Bueller?


Time and time again you demonstrate both a complete and total misunderstanding of things in the US. If an American made the same kind of lazy assumptions about France, what would you think of them?

It isn’t nearly as simple or straightforward as you think. This idea that you can just get a plot of land and start growing on it just because it’s legal in some states is comical. It’s absurd. You can’t be serious.

He found a hill he's willing to die on. Some people just can't see the forest through the trees....

 

[kro-magnon]

He found a hill he's willing to die on. Some people just can't see the forest through the trees....

You're the one assuming because your local market is flooded with the same type of hybrids the situation is similar everywhere, it is just not true. The situation is very different in your state compared to a country in Europe or South America, there is not the same genetics in circulation those places and yours. There is still many different type of genetics in circulation all over the world.

 

[dogzter]

You're the one assuming because your local market is flooded with the same type of hybrids the situation is similar everywhere, it is just not true. The situation is very different in your state compared to a country in Europe or South America, there is not the same genetics in circulation those places and yours. There is still many different type of genetics in circulation all over the world.

Lets start small with yoir swales shall we.
Land needs swales how do you build them?
Are you using machines,animals or a shovel?
How much cubic earth will you be moving?
Do the math and let me know what your costs are and I will compare them to mine.
Time is Added into the calculation as well so how long will you need?