2024 State of the genepool discussion.

[ojd]

Going back to the original building blocks is the correct way forward. Sativa genetics are vital in producing new chemotypes.

Yes but who has the Original building blocks from 70's-80's , near nobody, and those that do hold clones report growth/Health issues and if people really had those old seeds why they not revived the strain until now.

Alot of reports over last few years of people finding old stash of seeds from 30 years ago , 90% probably bullshit or stretched the story's but hopefully that 10% do find some old legendary building blocks.

Also anyone tried any of the Afghan landrace strains from the new landrace companies that showed up over last 3 years ?

 

[goingrey]

All legit Skunk comes from Afghan

No Skunk known was bred with Sativa x Sativa and Skunk was born, none.

Skunk is a Afghan pheno always has been.

Like said the old Skunk would lay you out Indica style and I been saying it for years , would Stink the house out like Cheese or Sour Diesel first time ever smelling/smoking it, and I'm talking about the first ever skunk flower i see in mid 90's around 94 for first time , of course it was around years before my time as was any Afghan import , or People being stationed over there in 1979 for war etc etc so Hash , seeds and anything else come back with people stationed over there since 1979 very close to when Skunk was first discovered


Skunk was Afghan period.
People x whatever Male they had to that Afghan, and Skunk they found was the Afghan leaning pheno, no specific work done by anyone , as if it was where is it now ?

lol please don’t inflate Sam’s ego any more than it already is - haha

A lot of people weighing in here on Skunk; I wonder if they even grew up in Skunk country like many of us to know the various smells coming from a skunk based on numerous factors, distance a huge one, the smell changes wildly y’all - ever been sprayed or your dogs…?

You ever hear the song video killed the radio star…?

NL & Bubblegum killed off skunk (they were the new fad & risk in growing them significantly less); those of us there & whom lived it remember it well - skunk was in everything domestic in the 80’s & into early 90’s then poof it was gone, overlap the timelines…

PS: Tom is a drunk muppet that a long time ago grew huge plants and had the balls to post them; man has he rested on them laurels for decades !!

PPS: his haze is filled with deep chunk, all of us in the know including him know that !

The truth can hurt but it remains the same

There is for sure a strain called Skunk #1. Personally I don't doubt that it was bred from Afghani, Mexican, and Colombian by Sam who purposefully selected for a sweet aroma profile. Since the 80s it has been crossed to this, that, and everything because of it's excellent growth characteristics, and is also popular by itself.

Maybe in hindsight it would have been better to call it Sweet #1 or something but it's too late for that.

And anyway if Skunk #1 isn't skunk and skunk isn't even called skunk but just Afghani then what's the problem?

 

[ojd]

Let’s get to the real questions at hand

When and why did Sensi change there genetics
When and why did Mr nice change there genetics

If you say there the same from the originals im gonna ignore you .. even if these where f15s by now there not the same genetics

Cali connection releasing all them “ogs” with diff moms and same dads using real og names during there hay days got more fake Sfv and Tahoe cuts out here then ever

Rez releasing sour d ibl watering down the sour market during its hay day causing mass confusion with seed cuts 10 years later

Loompa calling his OG headband during the headband hype days and dna releasing headband seeds causing more confusion

Why have seeds made by accident (gg4) been better than seeds made on purpose in the last 10 years

If GSC was bred on purpose (eye roll) where tf is the other phenos only other known pheno is ogkb which was found in a bag of weed

Honestly we have some really really good strains made on purpose but all the accident ones and bagseeds from the 90s ( og and chems sours) hazes etc are still king so nature has a way of sorting shit out .. we got Runtz from the new age and it’s fire new things will come even by accident

Companies lose Males and Females, shit happens.
Any Regular buyer/grower of seed companies changing lineages will notice different or absence phenos.
Coca cola won't announce when they add some new chemical or retract they just sell as normal.
Some companies admit to loses others don't.
Some companies it's there main building blocks so people will definitely notice but for them to admit they lost some of best ingredients would hurt sales big time so you can understand why they do ( I'm not saying it's cool it's just how it is ).

Some strains are exceptional, anything you hit them with or get hit by produce way above average than normal that why certain strains are still much more than others obviously.

There is as good as said clones you mentioned in seeds but it takes the hype machine to make it as big and known like strains like the GG4 , which gained hype from being passed out freely and plenty.
It's great weed for sure but it's popularity gained massive hype after being released freely and more importantly commercially grown.
Commercially grown the mass market got to try this strain and it gained extra hype by mass market trying it where as some of our Canna community famous cuts/strains defo don't get passed as freely or tried by your average Joe smoker.

I'm working on a tactic myself for later in the year , sell clones of my special keepers to a clone vendor who will sell clones to anyone willing to pay the piper .
Then many many more people will get to try my strains not just my customers who buy my seeds.
Also I hope to do this with my flowers Also again so the mass market can try my strains instead of my small customer base.

 

[Rocket Soul]

I meant to hop of this thread but one thing remains to be said: how is it that there isnt a patreon effort to get some funds for taking samples for tissue culture to preserve and reset old mums, clone lines and strains? If there was an added access to the those who funded the initiative aswell as access to people who supplied great (and not middling) genetics there would be a motivation on both sides to get this going. Just a thought. Now im back to lurk and summer holidays

 

[ojd]

The good thing is that you can still get the building blacks and make your own. I mean people were just making crosses using Afghan, Thai, Columbian, Mexican, etc... Many people like to drop names of these legendary breeders but what did they really do? They crossed some different strains. It's not rocket science.

Hell I have a cross I've made using Pakistani Chitral Kush, Durban, and Mazar-i-Sharif. I started with the PCK/Durban and worked that for a few years getting the purple out as I prefer the green pheno. I took that to F8 and I had achieved that goal of no purple just green plants. I then crossed that with the Mazar-i-Sharif. The end result is a strain that comes as close to the taste and smell of some of the stuff I was getting back in the 80's.

What's strange is that the purple showed back up with the PCK/Durban + Mazar-i-Sharif cross. It was around 50/50 green to purple. The green is better than the purple. I'm not a fan of purple weed. It's lacking in my opinion. Anyway, the green is as close to what we were calling skunk bud back when I was in High School as I've had since that era of time. I've grown several different Skunk strains from several different vendors. They all claim this and that, the original, blah blah blah. While it was good weed it was definitely not what it was claimed to be and I think mine is better.

That's why I'll likely never buy anymore genetics. I already have genetics from all across the globe. I can pollinate a plant and make my own crosses. There are very many people just like me dabbling in breeding and creating stuff as good as any of the legendary breeders or new guys and gals these days. It's not as complicated as many make it out to be and there is no single super special strain that you can't live without.

The strains to be buying are landraces not some hybrid from the 90's. The building blocks are disappearing as they're being contaminated and lost forever. I don't care about some famous strain someone made back in the 80's, 90's, 2000's, etc... I'm more concerned about the Thai, Afghan, Indian, Mexican, etc... The stuff where all modern hybrids came from. Stock your pantry with those and start cooking.

As the strains from 90's have become diluted or disappeared but so have majority of landrace even more so , landrace from 70-80's which must be at like F50 by now ? , all x with the Hemp phenos also and that shit pheno loves to dominate

What me must all understand that certain phenotypes are the Grail and unless these landrace are dominant phenos then as Skunk did and most of the lines we know and have lost from 70's onwards they are a shadow of themselves from when first sampled 50 plus years ago.

Luckily there are some landrace companies now ( I'm sure 90% sell you any old seed they find from those countries) and hopefully the few legitimate ( if any) landrace companies find the special phenos/traits and can reinvigorate some of the lost taste/Highs we search for and we can find lost or hidden gems from the past ( but like i said 90% plus of these new landrace sellers are definitely just trying to cash in on new landrace hype SO DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE SPENDING THAT $ as you might get some real straight up Hemp)

The strains from the 90's are some of the best selections from the 90's so I wouldn't say to avoid at all , I'd say look for those , as we know gets more diluted every year.

If we had access to the best landraces from the 70-80's then yes of course we should jump in but the early days had alot of swag to , alot. Many poor quality Thai , Jamaican etc etc , but then those special 1 of batches that blew us away. How rare will they be to find in landrace seeds sold today ? , very rare, way more rare than selections from the 90's , as they were actually selections , the landrace ( majority) was mass produces grown in said country.
I've had 100's of batches of Thailand since a kid but man that 1 batch of Thai sticks was better than all 100 batches 10 x , and of course was many good batches out of the 100 , maybe 10-15 out of 100 but this 1 batch was better than all 100 and that's how rare it was over 30 years of smoking.

Also everyone thinks they produce excellent herbs/seeds and better than most you see , but is that not our own opinion , and if really is true then others also should agree and that's what makes something extra special.

 

[ojd]

Some landraces might be endangered because local farmers harvest more with modern strains, you can't blame them for wanting to have better yield. There is many programs to preserve the original landraces, anyone can buy most of them now. Or go get them straight from growers hands in foreign countries.

Landrace farmers are the same as us just more growing for survival than anything.
They made same mistakes as us , even more as how many had fridges back then or even the insights to keep the seeds from favourite crops , stored at top of the mountain or coldest place they had available ?.

90% of seed from landrace countries are no good for growing flower to sell, after decades of inbreeding and minimal selection.
For the mass market a strain needs to be able to prodcue medium-good yield, nice Trichome coverage and great taste/High , 90% plus of landrace won't prodcue that at all.
To grow for your own consumption yes a plant or 2 in the corner but never a room full or that will be a big loss of production , quality etc etc.

 

[kro-magnon]

I'm not interested personally in growing unworked landraces just listing some of the endless options we have today. Some growers apparently are happy growing those strains instead of hybrids made for indoor production, if they like it this way good for them.Me I'm very happy with the seeds I can find today, a lot of different styles easily accessible and yet I live in a country where cannabis THC is totally illegal. Seeing some people who live in a place where they can legally do what they want I think they are spoiled kids.

 

[H e d g e]

that 1 batch of Thai sticks was better than all 100 batches 10 x

It was probably fermented on the way over, cannabinoids become stronger agonists if stored in an acidic environment. I remember people putting it in yogurt, makes it trippy.
Not sure it’d work on irradiated bud though.

 

[ojd]

There is for sure a strain called Skunk #1. Personally I don't doubt that it was bred from Afghani, Mexican, and Colombian by Sam who purposefully selected for a sweet aroma profile. Since the 80s it has been crossed to this, that, and everything because of it's excellent growth characteristics, and is also popular by itself.

Maybe in hindsight it would have been better to call it Sweet #1 or something but it's too late for that.

And anyway if Skunk #1 isn't skunk and skunk isn't even called skunk but just Afghani then what's the problem?

Of course there is the strain Skunk 1 ? , nobody said otherwise.

What we dispute is that Sam created strain Skunk , Sam took Skunk from USA and x it with something and that is Skunk 1, which obviously had Skunk phenos in them.

Also what we doubt is that Sam purposely bred out Roadkill Skunk for a Sweet shit Skunk , why on earth would anyone take the loudest smelling/tasting plant and make it a mediocre plant ?.

Also if that is true which it isn't then how come nobody else has the Skunk anymore either as Skunk was freely available in Holland in early 90's, since Sam brought it over from USA to Holland and clones and seeds were grown commercially in the 90's in Holland.

Clones get lost as Skunk clone did in Holland and that was the end of an era.

Cheese is the best Skunk 1 we see over here , other than that i never EVER heard of a good Skunk 1 in last 20 years

Nevil seemed to have Skunk after Sam lost/bred it out and used it in several of his breeds in the mid late 90's

 

[ojd]

It was fermented on the way over, cannabinoids become stronger agonists if stored in an acidic environment. I remember people putting it in yogurt, makes it trippy.
Not sure it’d work on irradiated bud though.

Yes this was definitely an older batch , looked liked it was vacuum packed , most Thai we got looked Normal Thai sticks but this batch looked ancient and very different to 99% of any Thai sticks i see.

But all batches fermented on the way over but this batch was probably stored for a few years or more

 

[kro-magnon]

The Skunk#1 has never been a mediocre plant neither the Super Skunk made with Sk#1.All the buds who were of high quality were called Skunk for a reason , this hybrid Skunk#1 had a huge impact on the cannabis.
And now way you had access to american skunk in the UK in the 90's.

 

[H e d g e]

Yes this was definitely an older batch , looked liked it was vacuum packed , most Thai we got looked Normal Thai sticks but this batch looked ancient and very different to 99% of any Thai sticks i see.

But all batches fermented on the way over but this batch was probably stored for a few years or more

Or maybe a bit higher rh, ferments slower if too dry.

 

[fonzee]

How can it be broadened by selection? Surely that would be narrowing it?

Well, hoarders of seeds are more common than ever.
If you take a super silver haze and cross it to lemon skunk and make super lemon haze - do you lose the super silver and lemon skunk?
No, you just bring your own to the pool.
And even if you think your SSH is super rare and not available to anyone in the world, hoarders can surprise you in the future.
Reviving heirlooms is very easy if you have some seeds - just do an open pollination.
And I believe most of these old seeds are surely hoarded somewhere.
With modern genetics, I believe it should be quite soon be possible to verify a true heirloom.

What bottlenecks new age genetics, IMO, is breeders - growers - smoker all having pretty much the same requirements from weed.
Which is a trend I see starting to end.
Also, marketing makes hyped strains into street whores that catch pollen from anyone with a bit of means.
This is a trend I see some strongly follow, but I also see many that choose to keep to their own pools.

I, myself, try to buy seeds based on their type. F1 are awesome for production. High F is great for crossing to a different strain.
Bx is generally too recessive and unstable for me. I think breeding with a bx makes the bx parent show less in the progeny.
Selfed seeds are useless IMO - just a knockoff based on the breeder capitalizing on the genetics in seeds form rather than releasing the cut. Never seen an S1 of an unknown cut.
If I know both parents - its a no go. I try to only get seeds that the breeder did a selection to match a progeny, and tested the results before releasing.

 

[El Timbo]

Reviving heirlooms is very easy if you have some seeds - just do an open pollination.

An open pollination of seeds that came from just one male and one female will only ever contain the genes from those 2 individuals... we're talking about gene pools right?

 

[PetePrice]

Companies lose Males and Females, shit happens.
Any Regular buyer/grower of seed companies changing lineages will notice different or absence phenos.
Coca cola won't announce when they add some new chemical or retract they just sell as normal.
Some companies admit to loses others don't.
Some companies it's there main building blocks so people will definitely notice but for them to admit they lost some of best ingredients would hurt sales big time so you can understand why they do ( I'm not saying it's cool it's just how it is ).

Some strains are exceptional, anything you hit them with or get hit by produce way above average than normal that why certain strains are still much more than others obviously.

There is as good as said clones you mentioned in seeds but it takes the hype machine to make it as big and known like strains like the GG4 , which gained hype from being passed out freely and plenty.
It's great weed for sure but it's popularity gained massive hype after being released freely and more importantly commercially grown.
Commercially grown the mass market got to try this strain and it gained extra hype by mass market trying it where as some of our Canna community famous cuts/strains defo don't get passed as freely or tried by your average Joe smoker.

I'm working on a tactic myself for later in the year , sell clones of my special keepers to a clone vendor who will sell clones to anyone willing to pay the piper .
Then many many more people will get to try my strains not just my customers who buy my seeds.
Also I hope to do this with my flowers Also again so the mass market can try my strains instead of my small customer base.

Gg4 wasn't hype it was/is a damn fine plant, and it's a damn good thing it was passed around a community and not whored.

 

[kro-magnon]

The Skunk#1 has never been a mediocre plant neither the Super Skunk made with Sk#1.Abuds who were of high quality were called Skunk for a reason , this hybrid Skunk#1 had a huge impact on the cannabis.

Well, hoarders of seeds are more common than ever.
If you take a super silver haze and cross it to lemon skunk and make super lemon haze - do you lose the super silver and lemon skunk?
No, you just bring your own to the pool.
And even if you think your SSH is super rare and not available to anyone in the world, hoarders can surprise you in the future.
Reviving heirlooms is very easy if you have some seeds - just do an open pollination.
And I believe most of these old seeds are surely hoarded somewhere.
With modern genetics, I believe it should be quite soon be possible to verify a true heirloom.

What bottlenecks new age genetics, IMO, is breeders - growers - smoker all having pretty much the same requirements from weed.
Which is a trend I see starting to end.
Also, marketing makes hyped strains into street whores that catch pollen from anyone with a bit of means.
This is a trend I see some strongly follow, but I also see many that choose to keep to their own pools.

I, myself, try to buy seeds based on their type. F1 are awesome for production. High F is great for crossing to a different strain.
Bx is generally too recessive and unstable for me. I think breeding with a bx makes the bx parent show less in the progeny.
Selfed seeds are useless IMO - just a knockoff based on the breeder capitalizing on the genetics in seeds form rather than releasing the cut. Never seen an S1 of an unknown cut.
If I know both parents - its a no go. I try to only get seeds that the breeder did a selection to match a progeny, and tested the results before releasing.

The SDbx4 I grow right now gave some plants extremely stable with very little variations from each individuals, I had not seen so much regularity since my last pack of Super Skunk a long time ago.

 

[H e d g e]

Also anyone tried any of the Afghan landrace strains from the new landrace companies that showed up over last 3 years ?

I’ve got a Baluchi I like, has the muscle relaxing deep calm with smiley happiness. About 50% also have the stupefying effects though so I guess it’s got modern varieties in there somewhere.
I reckon this effect amplifies over generations so I’ll probably just keep the best cuts from p1 and p2 as mums and put the rest in the freezer for emergencies.
Anything from that area probably has skunk in it by now.

 

[ojd]

The Skunk#1 has never been a mediocre plant neither the Super Skunk made with Sk#1.All the buds who were of high quality were called Skunk for a reason , this hybrid Skunk#1 had a huge impact on the cannabis.
And now way you had access to american skunk in the UK in the 90's.

When Skunk first arrived in Holland it was the best thing they had ever seen.

From the day that wall pentrating Skunk disappeared it was Nothing special at all and was surpassed by all of Nevil's offerings including many Skunk 1 hybrids.

In the early 90's Skunk 1 was amazing it was a Skunk pheno everyone grew , since the loss of Skunk pheno in the mid 90's Skunk1 has been garbage ever since.

Nevil smashed it in the 90's with multiple Skunk hybrids not just the Super Skunk but when the Funk in Skunk died so did the love for Skunk 1.
People grew it commercially for years later as it was a great yield etc

 

[PetePrice]

Yet Nevil used SamS work so can't all of been bad...
Anyway there's a pattern here and it's boring.

 

[ojd]

Gg4 wasn't hype it was/is a damn fine plant, and it's a damn good thing it was passed around a community and not whored.

I said it was great but nobody can say otherwise that it gained extra credit by by being passed around/tried by the mass to make it more known than other strains