2016 Outdoor Garden of Eden

[slownickel]

Get some chelated copper on.

Realize that the micro mixes have iron. You applying more iron is silly. Hard to balance that way. You need to stop thinking shotgun and think of a rifle approach. One bullet at a time. Not a zillion beebees in a shotgun shell, hoping that one of them hits the target.

 

[FoothillFarming]

One of my biggest problems for sure.

Bill McKibben recommended me foliar those in. All 4. He also recommend a chelate product to help bind them, and I have been using Albion Metoslate Ca. I know that probably isn't the right product, what would you recommend? He recommended a product called EDTA My-Axilio, or at least that is what I wrote down..... Spelling isn't my strong suit. Google can't help me if I can't spell.

Edit: I use AEA's rebound for the individual micros.

 

[slownickel]

Foots.

AEA rebound is a sulfate plus molasses. This is what you are using for foliar micros?

Buy Baicor, which is better than Albion, instead.

 

[cbcool]

Foots.

AEA rebound is a sulfate plus molasses. This is what you are using for foliar micros?

Buy Baicor, which is better than Albion, instead.

Hey slow, where can one buy baicor? I know there based in salt lake city, but I couldn't find purchase info on the website?

 

[slownickel]

Call them and ask who is nearby or where you can order by pony express to your door.

 

[cbcool]

Duh, sometimes in our age of technology, I forget you can call and talk to people. But it is still strange you can't buy manufacturer direct in this day and age.

I'll call them, it's funny though, when I search their products I cant Find a distributor, maybe cause I live in an extremely remote location.

 

[slownickel]

They are a real Mom and Pop organization. Give thanks for that fact.

Their webpage is a disaster, I agree with you.

 

[slownickel]

Foots,

I would imagine that your PM problem is related to a real big Mn, Zn, Cu and even Ni problem. Also, if you are doing a better job on the soil and getting more roots, you might need to apply much less N and work more amino acids instead. Especially with those monsters. Getting good flow in those monsters will be tough. You need to have a strategy for applying at the soil and the foliar level. Applying sulfates foliar from AEA will not do the job. Try Baicor or Albion instead (They are the nearly the same chemically and Baicor is cheaper).

 

[caterpillar710]

Hi FF lots to read through but the pictures on the last page are of some nice plants. Are you worried about having imbalances in plants this large when there's about to be a large hormonal and energetic demand put on them from the fruiting phase ; or do you feel that foliar spraying with all the various brands of essentially the same things will get you where you need to go and what's your plan for knowing exactly what to apply as once deficiencies manifest in the plant it's my understanding that one is about two weeks behind the curve and that's why sap analysis is so Useful...at least according to the Nova people

Slow nickel that baicor complexed silicon looks like some interesting stuff to experiment with but is it any better than using something like VanSil or plain old red lake earth and lots of biological activity to free the silicon ?

 

[FoothillFarming]

Foots.

AEA rebound is a sulfate plus molasses. This is what you are using for foliar micros?

Buy Baicor, which is better than Albion, instead.

Yea, that is what I am using.......No bueno?

Foots,

I would imagine that your PM problem is related to a real big Mn, Zn, Cu and even Ni problem. Also, if you are doing a better job on the soil and getting more roots, you might need to apply much less N and work more amino acids instead. Especially with those monsters. Getting good flow in those monsters will be tough. You need to have a strategy for applying at the soil and the foliar level. Applying sulfates foliar from AEA will not do the job. Try Baicor or Albion instead (They are the nearly the same chemically and Baicor is cheaper).

. Maybe you can touch more on how I would address amino acids directly. Moly is needed for formation I know that. What else am I missing to create amino's?

As for the Baicor, what products do you recommend? The Moly seems like the same product as AEA. Iron, Mn and Cu is a chelated.

It's the wives b-day today. So I have a 6am foliar date, then it's all her today. Maybe I will get a chance to order some of these materials today. What volumes should I order? I guess I will call and ask. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[FoothillFarming]

Hi FF lots to read through but the pictures on the last page are of some nice plants. Are you worried about having imbalances in plants this large when there's about to be a large hormonal and energetic demand put on them from the fruiting phase ; or do you feel that foliar spraying with all the various brands of essentially the same things will get you where you need to go and what's your plan for knowing exactly what to apply as once deficiencies manifest in the plant it's my understanding that one is about two weeks behind the curve and that's why sap analysis is so Useful...at least according to the Nova people

Slow nickel that baicor complexed silicon looks like some interesting stuff to experiment with but is it any better than using something like VanSil or plain old red lake earth and lots of biological activity to free the silicon ?

I get plenty of silica from my sea shield.

Yea, I am worried. At the same time, I know what I am missing and how to apply it. My soil volumes are large enough to handle these plants even if I didn't feed another single time. That is the advantage to having 400-1000 gallon pots. The only reason I am worried, is because I shoot for perfection. Perfection is always an arms reach away.

Edit: also, yes. Foliar spraying will save the day IMO. Another thing to consider, the soil tests were taken almost a month ago, and I have been working on it since then. So I am more prepared than it appears.

 

[FoothillFarming]

Found Baicor on amazon. FYI.

 

[caterpillar710]

I get plenty of silica from my sea shield.

Yea, I am worried. At the same time, I know what I am missing and how to apply it. My soil volumes are large enough to handle these plants even if I didn't feed another single time. That is the advantage to having 400-1000 gallon pots. The only reason I am worried, is because I shoot for perfection. Perfection is always an arms reach away.

Edit: also, yes. Foliar spraying will save the day IMO. Another thing to consider, the soil tests were taken almost a month ago, and I have been working on it since then. So I am more prepared than it appears.

I'm confused , did you just say your 400-1000 gallon pots were enough of a reserve to grow your plants with no additional input? Would that be the case if the soil was balanced correctly and you didn't have deficiencies that required correction via foliar or are you saying that they are good even how they are and you're just trying to make them better by spraying ?

I did notice that about the tests , did you send in weekly samples once you started treatment in order to track progress of your Rx?

 

[caterpillar710]

Sea Shield is a good product and yes it does have silica in it but you can't really compare it to wollastonite. FWIW

 

[FoothillFarming]

So guys, 5% of my garden has purple stocks. Sky Lotus, Snow Wookie and Helen Back are the only ones. All in the gator mix, and at least the Wookie and Helen are purple strains. So maybe just genetic after all?

I'm confused , did you just say your 400-1000 gallon pots were enough of a reserve to grow your plants with no additional input? Would that be the case if the soil was balanced correctly and you didn't have deficiencies that required correction via foliar or are you saying that they are good even how they are and you're just trying to make them better by spraying ?

I did notice that about the tests , did you send in weekly samples once you started treatment in order to track progress of your Rx?

Yes, a 400 or 1000 gallon pot needs no fertilizer when set up correct. Even with slight deficiencies, the organic herd will gather enough nutrients to grow large plants. Maybe I am missing what you are asking, maybe be a little more precise? What are you concerned with in my soil results that foliar wont fix?

Never used wollastonite. Thanks for the heads up. However if it doesn't have an organic rating, then I can't use it.

 

[FoothillFarming]

As for getting more soil samples:

The best times of the year for soil samples are before the season, a month before flip, and in the fall. If you start taking weekly soil samples, I would imagine you would confuse yourself because I don't believe anybody's soil is that uniform across an entire crop. Soil tests are for getting a good base on what your plants will need, then it's all about plant response from there on out.

So my last round of soil tests said I need A B and C. During the season, I don't really like to add too much of anything, so I will just lightly fertigate in A B and C, and foliar into flower. Instead of hitting the plants with 11#'s of A, 3#'s of B, and 2#'s of C all at once.

 

[caterpillar710]

So guys, 5% of my garden has purple stocks. Sky Lotus, Snow Wookie and Helen Back are the only ones. All in the gator mix, and at least the Wookie and Helen are purple strains. So maybe just genetic after all?

When stems stream or turn purple there is a P deficiency. Think of P as the energy conductor for the plant. If you have some
Micronutrient issues it can also effect P availability


Yes, a 400 or 1000 gallon pot needs no fertilizer when set up correct. Even with slight deficiencies, the organic herd will gather enough nutrients to grow large plants.where are they gathering nutrients from? are you talking about N fixation from the atmosphere? Maybe I am missing what you are asking, maybe be a little more precise? What are you concerned with in my soil results that foliar wont fix?

I don't have any concerns , I have no vested interest in your success or failure I am just here to post my experiences and understandings and to have discussions based in plant science what was confusing to me was your alarmist reaction to your issues but then saying that the pot correctly balanced doesn't need anything and that even with slight micronutrient imbalances plants will still grow just fine...if that's the case why do any corrective sprays at all? There's either an issue with your soil and your plants need an Rx or they don't and the gardens on point. It's confusing when you talk both ways

Never used wollastonite. Thanks for the heads up. However if it doesn't have an organic rating, then I can't use it.

Wollastonite is a mineral, it's definitely organic. Do you have a real organic certification at your property from CDFA?

 

[caterpillar710]

As for getting more soil samples:

The best times of the year for soil samples are before the season, a month before flip, and in the fall. If you tell that to a proper farms manager he will laugh at you. Not to be incindiary or anything but that's the reaction I imagine or at least that was my reaction when I read thatIf you start taking weekly soil samples, I would imagine you would confuse yourself because I don't believe anybody's soil is that uniform across an entire crop.Plant root exudate are strong acids that help to facilitate nutrient availability that's why an AA8.2 test is so valuable and a saturated paste test doesn't tell the whole storySoil tests are for getting a good base on what your plants will needi agree there but the plant growing in the soil will effect the physical and biological properties and that's why you'll find large farms testing weekly both soil and sapthen it's all about plant response from there on out.no doubt but it needs to be quantified in some way. Are you using a field Sap meter array to track sap no3 k p pH Ca?

So my last round of soil tests said I need A B and C. During the season, I don't really like to add too much of anything, so I will just lightly fertigate in A B and C, and foliar into flower. Instead of hitting the plants with 11#'s of A, 3#'s of B, and 2#'s of C all at once

Those Rx are based on math, if you don't put enough you do more harm than good because there wasn't enough of the material for the required chemistry to happen and once you're growing the plant becomes a part of the chemistry of the soil so you really want to build that frame correctly before not as you go during the season but that's just been my experience and preference .

FWIW

 

[slownickel]

Foots,

We have tried using several different silica products. No response.

I am pretty sure our silica levels in the soil are super high as it never rains here.

As well, we did trials with silica on several grape and sugar cane farms in Peru, nothing.

In Honduras, there was a huge response to silica in the sugar cane. Hard to compare humid tropics against the dry tropics (we get less than an inch of rain a year).

 

[HillMizer]

I've worked in agriculture since I was 13. My first job was on a potato farm. The last 10 years were working and consulting on cannabis farms.
My farm hand this year managed a decent sized mechanized valley produce farm last year.
In my experience most farms get soil tests ONCE a year. Some do twice. With very few ever getting a third soil test. Most farms are completely unaware that sap testing is something you do in the field, even customers who operate vineyards are confused on how brix might relate to their cannabis crop.
Why would Foothill be concerned aside from his perfectionist tendencies? He clearly will have a very successful crop regardless.
Most outdoor canna farmers think that AACT, a magic product or more blue powder will make everything irie.
A lot of folks are using an Albrecht/modified Albrecht school of soil balancing but I still think it is just a baseline. There's many studies that discredit Albrecht ratios and there are many discrepancies in testing methods and procedures.
These farms run with small crews and sometimes you gotta just live and take in another harvest. Pulling 10# of dried flowers off of a single annual plant appears to be well above the reaches of most agriculture.