150w HPS Club and Resource Guide......

[gzzmo]

sugabear, just a short question: tripped over your 4-8 budsites per sq foot.
right now i'm doing some LST to get more budsites (well,at this stage -vegging- branches) in order to have a budsite every 9sq inches (about that). so this adds up to some 20-30 budsites evenly spaced across my 1.5 sq feet screen. also, from my experience many smaller yet still pretty big buds beat few big ones with lots of space in between. i'd agree with you totally when growing bush/tree style, but do you think your recommendation also goes for scrog?
i'm dreaming about my ~20 4 gramm buds, evenly spaced

 

[jasonk]

Hey all, the girl I had going ended up turning hermy and I got some seeds from it. I know its a good chance these seens will go hermy too, but I ended up getting around 1/4 of decent bud from the plant and I have nothing else to be growing right now. Im just experimenting to see what happens with these plants. I got 6 sprouted seeds, one is much further along then the rest and most of them are browning on some of the leave tips and the younger plants seem to be dropping a bit. Theyre under 1 42W CFL and Im planing to get another in there soon. Any ideas what the problems could be? Heres a couple pictures of what I mean if u can make it out.
Thanks, Jason

 

[Guest]

well thanks go out to Vernal for sending me a link to the PDF version of a wiring diagram provided by econolight...

I was able to create a JPG version to post here in case anyone needs it here it is...

Please note this diagram is for a unit with out a capacitor. I'll try to get a diagram for that and put it up here too.

-suga

so on the 150w hps from econolight, all i really have to do to remote ballast it is just buy some longer wires to replace the black and white wires leading up to the bulb right? I can just change thosee at the wire nuts where the wires that are there now are spliced together?

When grounding it, can I just ground it to whatever little metal electrical box that I put the ballast into? I just don't wanna risk a fire.

will the ballast melt thick rubber bands if I use them to suspend it to reduce buzzing? would I need a fan blowing over the ballast to keep it cool enough? or is the heat really not that much of an issue. as long as I have the ballast in the metal box, I really don't need to worry about it heating up the wood its mounted on so much that it starts a fire right?

thanks for all the help. sorry if I'm repeating questions that have already been asked.

 

[sugabear_II]

gzzmo - yeah I think 4-8 per square foot is ideal in my experience - with your space 15" x 15" = 2.25 square feet you could have 18 bud sites and still stay within my 8 per square foot recommendation. It's up to you though - I personally found this to be best.

Jasonk I don't know much about soil but I'd say that you might be overwatering/fertilizing.


irishsoco you'll want to use a heavy duty extension cord for doing the remoting thing - check out the link in my signature for step by step. You'll want to ground it at each possible point - to do this you need the extension cord type wire which has white, black, and green(ground). You'll want to attach the green to the reflector or mount for the socket, then again to your metal box (make sure if it's painted or something you have sand to get a good contact) and then again from the metal box to the plug.

The ballast will be OK against wood (mine is in a metal junction box mounted to the wood backing of my cabinet). It probably wouldn't melt the rubber bands - I'm not sure if that will really help diminish the hum though, but it's worth a try.

 

[Guest]

thanks sugabear i did check out the link in your sig and it was very very helpful. I just wanted to make sure I understood it correctly. I'd rather ask now and sound like an idiot than have the fire dept and popo coming in bc my place looks like the great chicago fire just struck.

Your pictures you included in there really helped me to see it.

would you recommend having a pc fan blowing across the ballast to keep it cool?

 

[Q_ba1]

gzzmo & suga I've got 21buds (18 nicely massive) on 3.1 sq ft, it is 7 per sq foot, I think 6 per sq foot is very good practise, but my lighting is only 150hps 17000lum and 2xcfl 20w/1000lum and it isnt too much I think...

irishSoCo I use one computer fan for ballast cooling, it isnt necessary but it is nice

 

[green_grow]

hey, irish ... the exhaust from my cab just happens to blow directly onto my remoted ballast. this setup keeps it only slightly warm to the touch. my understanding is that a cooler running ballast lasts longer, so cooling it with a comp. fan would be a good thing, but, as q ba 1 has said, not essential .

 

[Bulénath]

Definately get a computer fan to cool your ballast if possible..

JasonK whats up man? Your plants dont look to happy. What kind of soil do you have them in? Seedlings dont like hot soil, or fertilizer. Do your pots have drain holes?

I would suggest using 33% each Perlite/wormcasitngs/vermiculite. Thats Lavendercowboy's mixture. It has worked perfectly for me!

 

[jasonk]

i'm using promix HPmix and added extra perlite. There is drainage and I've only been using straight water watering every 3-4 days. Haven't tested the PH yet, never known to have had an issue with PH, but I guess it doesnt hurt to go pick one up for a couple bucks. Those are worse parts on the 6 plants in there. Generally they dont look very bad, just the tips on the lower leaves. That one small droopy plant is the only one that looks like that and I noticed there is a faint layer of green on the top of the soil growing, just in that one cup.
Thanks, for the input so far. I'm probably getting clones or new seeds soon and Im not sure what Ill do with these, might just toss them. Just trying to learn as much as I can before I work with pricey genetics.
Jason

 

[NG2k]

well all you 150W HPS, i can now say that i can join you.... if im accepted . installed my 150W today, and it makes such a difference from the 70W HPS and 80W CFL's. a brilliant buy . check out my thread in my sig, to see it in action.
peace

 

[Q_ba1]

NG2k welcome to the club, hopefully you'll be enjoy here

 

[Guest]

does anyone have a chart showing the light/lumens drop off related to distance from the bulb? also how far awya the light should be from the plants....thanks. i figured this would be the BEST place to get the right answers

 

[NG2k]

there ya go darren....



NG2k

 

[Guest]

thanks man..i tired google but just kept gettin lights for sale pages and stuff lol

 

[NG2k]

no problem...

 

[sugabear_II]

ok Darren you asked about a touchy subject.... light intensity by distance from the bulb...

so let's start with the oft quoted rule which is that light intensity drops off as the inverse square of the distance from the light source. Most charts you have seen are based on this rule. So if at distance zero you have 100% total light when you drop off to a distance of 2 measures away you have 1/4 as much light. Double the distance to 4 measures intensity drops down to 1/16 of total. As measured at any point in the plane that is 4 measures away from the source (lumens/square inch for example)

The issue with this is that you do get less intence light (lumens/square inch) at any particular place as the distance increases, however your light is now lighting more area.

That's where the whole inverse square law comes from - it's just mathematics that consider the dispersion of light to be a cone and calculate the area of the circle prescribed by the wide end of the cone based upon the distance from the light source (height of cone). It uses pathogeran threorem and the formula for the surface area of a circle.

So if you were to hang your lamp in a big room with no walls and without a reflector the inverse square law would hold. When the lamp was very close to the floor the area of the cone that is being lit will be very small but the intensity will be very high. When you raise the lamp the area will increase and the intensity will decrease.

My point being the light is not going anywhere it's just spreading out. Light doesn't measurably loose any amount of intensity to the air over the distances we're concerned with in growing.

So in the real world we have reflection and reflective walls and the actual amount of light reaching the plants should be very close to the amount that the lamp is producing.

IF you had a perfectly reflective box with your lamp and some plants inside theoretically the plants would get 100% of the light as nothing else would absorb the light (remember I said perfectly reflective).

Now in the real world reflective light is anywhere from 80-98% of the incident light. That means bouncing the light off the walls to your plants is not the most efficient way to light them.

However it also means that if the walls are close to the plants and highly reflective you should not really be loosing much light - no matter the distance from the bulb.

So in practical terms - how close to hang your lamp to your plants is a question of heat - we all recommend using the back of the hand test - if the radiant heat from the bulb when running is too warm for your hand - it's too hot for your plants.

What this means is anywhere from 6" to 2" from the bulb can be achieved depending upon air movement.

I'm going to take out the measureing tape tonight and measure exactly how close my plant get.

suga

here's some pictures of how close my plants get to the bulb.

 

[Bulénath]

Excellent explanation Sugabear. Very, very good summary on light intensity and reflection as it relates to grow boxes.

JasonK,
Wasapinin man. If your watering every 3-4 days, im thinking underwatering!
Or maybe the soil remains wet for 3-4 days and your overwatering becasue the drainage is bad...

I grow seedlings in 4" square pots and the soil needs to be watered every day. But I water carefully, to make sure that they need water every day. Seedlings need the most attention by the way. I use a blunt tip syringe, large guage, to water each seedling.

Is your Humidity too low? What is the RH during lights on, and your ambient RH? Optimal RH for seedlings is 40-60%, but that can be very hard to achieve.

Have you had problems with the water in your area? Chlorine? high ppm?

Your 50/50 promix/perlite shouldent be too bad though...

Okay heres what I know...

First of all you can forget about PH when growing in organic soil or soiless mixes. The reason? Dolomote lime stablizes the PH. You can add all sorts of organic nutes and the PH wont budge with dolomite lime. You can still over fert the plants, but the PH remains around 7.0.

On that same note, organics is about bacteria shit. Plants dont eat bat guano, they eat bacteria shit.
This is unlike chemical ferts, which kind of force feeds the plants with chems... Kind of like a shot of morphine.
And organics is more like eating raw opium.

I know promix supposed to be a very plain, good potting media. I dont know what else to suggest other than Lavender Cowboy's seedling mixture that SAVED my seedlings and hobby.

33% each: Perlite, worm castings, vermiculite. Water with plan H20 for two weeks, then feed Pure Blend Pro every other day.


Oh yeah and Sugabear the OB1's you gave me are growing out real nice! I gota take pictures!

 

[Bulénath]

Obeez

Obeez

Some of Sugabear's OB1 hybrid: Oregon90 x Burmese Pure.
Stativas on the left, Indica on the right.



I just kinda....stuff em in there...



Here is something Intertesting. Heres the outdoor product of the CW20 clones. It finished within 4 weeks of flower and yeilded a whopping 1 gram per plant! But oh my god, it's danker, frostier, skunkier, tastier than Nuclear Cloud!


Tropical outdoor baby!

 

[Bulénath]

Aishte mas bonzai ganja! BANZAI!

Aishte mas bonzai ganja! BANZAI!

Everyone thinks its just a smooth looking tv stand; no one knows the truth!..




Looks like the plants are left in the dark? The chamber is 17 1/2" tall after all... But take another look...



Thats because im a quarter inch Japanese baby! The art of bonsai is in my blood, old school shogun style.



Did you like the purple in that picture? Shes a dirty little whore, lets strip her down for the money shot... Look at thse pretty pinkish pistols.. yeah baby...



Family portrait

 

[gzzmo]

hi everyone, i'm back with buds per sq. foot
sounds like there's some common understanding about that here which makes me doubt what i'm doing right now.
well, i'll remove the branches that are most likely to be a waste of space anyway, the question is when. day one flowering today...don't really want to trim in 12/12, but on the other hand what i'm planning on doing is not quite trimming but literally clipping off whole branches, so i expect no new growth from them and don't mind if the plant stops stretching for one or two days when recovering. what's the last point after which i shouldn't be touching my plants anymore?

well, well, before i really stress them (the way they look right now makes me think they don't even know what the heck stress is!) i'm gonna have it take care of itself by having good branches above the screen an keeping smallish branches under it where literally no growth happens. or, which takes lots of time but is well worth it, i place them perfectly sorted by size to get me some kind of stadium growth with closely spaced buds...i hate gaps in between buds (don't get me wrong, airflow needs to be provided).
i think with roughly 20 buds i'll be in good shape, making good use of all the light i got.