Sampling early and often and smoking the samples in a controlled manner and keeping good records is the only practical thing to do for most of us but if I was rich I'd still have the same hobby but I'd also have whatever gizmo it took to measure accurately the cannabinoids and profile them.
Zamaldelica - The Search for Trip Weed
- Thread starter ThaiBliss
- Start date
I'm like Terpene, I don't look at terpene color so much as swell and same goes for the calyx's, gotta swell and mature to be finished.
Like I've said before I think most of the ambering and maturation of resin comes with the cure
I also still get a lot of rush, trip, and zippidy do dah in the finished herb. Early trials usually disappoint and when they don't they only get better with the later picks.
Like I've said before I think most of the ambering and maturation of resin comes with the cure
I also still get a lot of rush, trip, and zippidy do dah in the finished herb. Early trials usually disappoint and when they don't they only get better with the later picks.
IMO and E, it's swollen calyxes that are the best indicator.
Mostly I like to let them go as long as possible, but i've had a few disappoint leaving them longer. The Highland Mexican x bb I ran I much preferred the buds harvested at 90 day than my final cut at 112.
I don't think there is a hard and fast rule; there is a huge spectrum of cannabis out there.
Mostly I like to let them go as long as possible, but i've had a few disappoint leaving them longer. The Highland Mexican x bb I ran I much preferred the buds harvested at 90 day than my final cut at 112.
I don't think there is a hard and fast rule; there is a huge spectrum of cannabis out there.
Welcome BoldAsLoveWhat a beautiful report and contribution. Sounds like you have found very psychedelic and energetic Zamaldelicas! This is the type of effects i was looking for this cross, and i'm very pleased to hear all your reports about her.
Zamaldelica it's a 3 way poly hybrid so there are always variations between plants. My favourite expression has a refined tropical (mango) aroma with sweet carrot details, with a very strong psychedelic effect that changes completly your perception and boosts your body with lots of energy, feeling almost like levitating without touching the floor
There are earthy Zamaldelicas with not so much refined terpenes (more classic african aroma) but they have the potential to be equally powerful and energetic.
Wish you enjoy with the harvest!
Thank you for the warm welcome and also for sharing your genetics with the world dubi
I love your use of the word refined, it is a much better description of the difference between the mango dominant groups I encountered, as the terpene profiles are extremely complex, and it's hard to describe them using only a few words. Your experiences from your favorite plant sound familiar I personally felt that only 3 of the plants I grew were in any way narcotic in nature. There was energy to be found all over the spectrum of plants indeed!
I have truly been spoiled by this harvest dubi, thank you again
Greetings,
I just smoked my first Zamaldelica. This one very much matched my experience with Golden Tiger, a component of which was narcotic in nature. My ass was dragging all day. It did cause noticeably more introspection than I remember from the Golden Tiger. I'll need to grow a few more to get a handle on this strain.
As far as timing of harvest, when I grew Bangi Haze and Golden Tiger, I went out of my way to try letting all the pistils die before harvest because I was told that Golden Tiger gets a lot stronger if one lets it go late. With this Zamaldelica, I harvested a bit earlier, and I'm feeling the same type of high as I did with the Golden Tiger, so I'm not sure that this is my problem. I think I just grew a Golden Tiger dominant pheno of Zamaldelica. I'll try again. In fact, I have a related Zamaldelica individual in the flowering cabinet right now. I got the seed from a friend who told me it was a Zamal leaning Zamaldelica crossed with a very up and energetic version of Malawi Gold.
I'm really picky about my smoke. I don't want to give anyone the idea that I'm down on ACE seeds. It is actually the best seed company I've ever ordered from. Dubi has a wider selection of Sativa strains than almost all other companies. So far, I've tried 4 ACE strains, and have had two great successes.
The more strains I try, the more I love the Bangi Haze. It is incredibly clear, energetic, positive vibe, and trippy with its noticeably enhanced auditory perceptions. At first I did not think it was very strong, but I think I was fooled due to it being so very clean in effect. By the end of the day, I realized how long lasting and good it was. It is Irie weed. Life is good, one love, type of smoke.
I also used a Purple Haze Meao Thai male to pollinate my best cutting, a SAGE strain cut that has been passed around my area. This turned out to be a match made in heaven. I believe both are Colombian leaning Haze selections. The SAGE parent being a Haze crossed with an Afghani, and the Purple Haze selection crossed with Meao Thai. Both parents showing strong purple colors. The result from the first offspring I tested seems to really hit the nail on the head of a good Colombian. It's quite stony, yet it is not couch-lock. It is stronger than the SAGE mother. It is missing the slight trippy touch of the SAGE, but does have the energy and mentally stimulating cerebral nature of what most trippy strains have. It is good weed, and is what I would share with company if I wanted to impress someone.
I would not cross this PHT x SAGE with Bangi Haze, because they are just two different types of weed. I might try a Punto Rojo or a Mangobiche Colombian to enhance the trademark Colombian effects. I'm still searching for something that would enhance the Bangi Haze.
Happy Searching Everyone,
ThaiBliss
Sorry it didn't work out this time, TB. Perhaps you could try vegging in 14/10 to increase your chances of a thai leaning pheno. Not sure if that works for sativa's, but it does help to get more sativa leaning pheno's when growing indica-sativa hybrids - according to DJ Short, that is.
low_and_slow
Member
Hey gang, having now consumed about a 1/2 ounce of well-cured, organically grown Congo, I think I'm qualified to make a comment on effect relative to harvest date...the one thing people forget is that when you snip a tester bud and nuke it, take a few tokes from a clean glass pipe, you're usually consuming what most would call "one to two doses" of Cannabis. When you take a fully matured, dried, cured bud and roll a big old joint, that's probably more like 5-6 doses of Cannabis. My point is, it's pretty hard to say that one harvest point does one thing and another harvest point does another when the comparison is relatively subjective to the experience and tolerance of the user. Like someone said previously, your "muddy and confused" might be my "calm and introspective" and the difference might be a 1/2 gram of consumption, what we had for lunch that day, how much caffeine we'd consumed, how many times the butterfly in Zimbabwe flapped its wings this morning...whatever.
Since most of these sativas yield REALLY well, I'm of the mindset that you multi-crop the lowers out when they mature earlier than the terminal buds, keep them separate, and understand that any given plant will offer several different kinds of experiences. For me, anything that doesn't have premium bag appeal goes to bubble hash or medibles, which ENTIRELY changes the experience of the final product due to the processing/concentration of the plant material. Knowing that, I just harvest the buds that look good, store them separately in a well marked container, and have a diversity of "experiences" on tap depending on my need.
And for the record, nothing is quite so sublime as sativa edibles...no reason to only enjoy indicas in food, I find my most "happy" highs are when I eat pure sativa laced foods high in saturated plant fats. Mmmm...coconut/Congo oil chocolate chip cookies!!!
Since most of these sativas yield REALLY well, I'm of the mindset that you multi-crop the lowers out when they mature earlier than the terminal buds, keep them separate, and understand that any given plant will offer several different kinds of experiences. For me, anything that doesn't have premium bag appeal goes to bubble hash or medibles, which ENTIRELY changes the experience of the final product due to the processing/concentration of the plant material. Knowing that, I just harvest the buds that look good, store them separately in a well marked container, and have a diversity of "experiences" on tap depending on my need.
And for the record, nothing is quite so sublime as sativa edibles...no reason to only enjoy indicas in food, I find my most "happy" highs are when I eat pure sativa laced foods high in saturated plant fats. Mmmm...coconut/Congo oil chocolate chip cookies!!!
You're right, nothing to do with harvest times at all. You got a golden tiger leaning Zamaldelica. The Malawi definitely makes for a more sedated, heavy experience. Plant more beans and keep looking for the thai / zamal only side and you'll find what you're looking for.
When I first read this I thought to myself "well duh!" but I guess this is exactly the sort of thing that less exacting or less experienced growers might overlook.
I Always test *exactly* the same way and keep detailed notes with dates etc.
I think repeated testing over a pre to post harvest window in a careful controlled manner with detailed notes is essential given the time, energy and in many cases large risks involved in doing this.
Anything less seems pretty silly.
ThaiBliss, it's too bad you didn't find what you were looking for, but your projects sound great! That's one of the best parts of digging into this hobby, isn't it? We can tailor our projects to fulfill our needs
I will continue to search and breed for psychedelic herb as many others will, with another 18 Zamaldelica possibly this year, with the cheif goal of finding a few males (didn't find any in my first 18). I'm a preservationist, and as far as I can see there are quite a few here on IC. 
The only possibly useful information I can contribute to the Golden Tiger/Zamaldelica narcotic topic, is that two plants (5 & 1) I considered to be dominant in the dark African aroma did in my opinion have an energetic overtone to the high with no harsh, sedating comedown. #1 was an all dark profile. #5 was early finishing, with the sweetest, most fruit infused profile amongst the darker smells, which prompted the selection. The other early finishing plant I had would have me dragging all day too if I smoked her early on. I consider narcotic to be something that helps me sleep, which is my number one reason for needing cannabis medically. And my narcotic ZD plants have varying degrees of what I think some call a "hangover", which to me just means a full night of good sleep
Even better sleep than many "medical" hybrids and indicas in the SoCal med scene.
Good thread, so much information here as always ThaiBliss. I too value the quality of the effect far more than the yield or in fact any other aspect of the plant.
I think there is a great group of like minded sativa lovers here and I'm starting to see them in all the same threads I'm interested in. Some of the best people on this forum for helpful and thoughtful information.
I'll try to contribute something possibly useful:
One thing I noticed looking at the pics and hearing the descriptions of the effects is some of you seem to be harvesting really really late in maturity, possibly beyond ripe into "rotten" territory if you think of the resin glands as the "fruit" of the harvest.
In my experience I think you lose very substantial potency and effect if you go beyond half dead pistils and end up with a strong THC breakdown into CBN high which is always easy to detect: bleary eyes, tired feeling, confusion, listlessness, brain fog -- a classic "dirty" high.
I first got on to this when I noticed that quick dried "early" samples of just about everything I was growing were far more potent than the final harvest.
I have an ACE Panama keeper pheno that is almost the strongest thing I've ever smoked for pure potency. One time, before I got into test sample harvests, I let it go an extra month back in the day because so many people on the Panama message board stated much longer bloom times than I typically would do just for a test and it was one of the worst things I ever smoked: bleary eyed, weak, tiring, sleepy - garbage.
If that had been my first grow ever of it I would have concluded it was crap and ditched the mom.
If you let it go too long and overfeed many sativaswill start foxtailing or putting on more stacks on top of earlier bud which *will* then have a more powerful, clean effect, however you still end up with a lot of bad CBN resin from the older glands inside those fresher buds so you don't end up with a nice clean effect when you break it up and smoke it.
With all the time and work required to grow a good Sativa I think it's a crime to take it too long and lose the whole reason for growing a Sativa in the first place. You can get a bleary break-down CBN with a lot less effort using an Indica.
If you are not smoking test samples early and often throughout bloom and keeping records you're possibly cheating yourself of a fantastic experience.
In my setup I've consistently noticed with Ace sativas (and other strains wildly different) that the resin glands show the peak ripeness when they are fully plump, standing erect, and just barely turning from clear to showing a slight haze. The pistils are usually around half white/green and half dead looking. I can always tell when they are going beyond and the plant has passed peak ripeness when I start to see resin glands starting to shrivel and bend over and this is often before they fully show colour or frostiness.
Smoke test back this up in my setup (LED modular SCROG), it's the only way really to be sure I think.
I look forward to your smoke report TB!
de145, you seem to be a person of scientific standards and practices when it comes to your passions, which I can strongly relate to
I always try to keep my mind open to new thoughts and ideas. Upon your suggestion, I recently harvested five different cuts of my ZD plants at this exact point in their growth cycle that you speak of (50/50 pistils with plump, clear trichromes). These plants are still curing, and I won't sample until at least two months time. Do you always sample from the exact same point on the plant? If not, might I suggest in the same of science, that growing a few cuts of the same plant, and taking them at different harvest times would be more accurate than sampling different parts of the same plant at different points in the plant's life? I've also personally found that living with and sampling the entire plant throughout it's curing life to be the best way to determine how a plant effects me, let's not forget that cannabis effects change throughout the cure, some more so than others.
Cheers to the search for knowledge
I wish I'd harvested my two ZDs around 10-14 days earlier.
They were pretty motivating shortly after harvest, but at around
12 weeks later, they're now "evening sativas".
No more waiting for the first few ambers...
Thanks for everyone's input.
They were pretty motivating shortly after harvest, but at around
12 weeks later, they're now "evening sativas".
No more waiting for the first few ambers...
Thanks for everyone's input.
Hi Sweet-E,
Can you give us an updated photo? Sure could use to gaze at that beauty you have.
Thanks,
ThaiBliss
Hola ThaiBliss,
I would HIGHLY recommend that you try the Mangobiche...check out my thread on this stellar offering I just started the Punta Rojo (CBG) and Double Thai (ACE), and will start Threads on these shortly mi amigo!
Saludos
RC_Colas
I would HIGHLY recommend that you try the Mangobiche...check out my thread on this stellar offering
I just started the Punta Rojo (CBG) and Double Thai (ACE), and will start Threads on these shortly mi amigo!Saludos
RC_Colas
Hola ThaiBliss,
I would HIGHLY recommend that you try the Mangobiche...check out my thread on this stellar offering
Saludos
RC_Colas
Hola RC_Colas,
Como Estas?
Thanks for the recommendation. Coming from you, it is likely to be great. The more I think of it, the more I want to run with the great start that I have with a Colombian type line. The Purple Haze Meao Thai x SAGE turned out so good, I can't just let it go because it is not my ideal. I certainly do not have even enough room for proper breeding techniques for even one strain, much less two. On the other hand, my understanding is that growing Cannabis for personal use is likely to be legal by next year here in Oregon!
The particular rules proposed are not public knowledge yet, and will probably be severely limited, but, if I get a greenhouse, I believe the SAGE in that cross I made may allow some individuals to get done by November 1, which is probably the drop dead date for strains in a greenhouse here, since the rainy season starts in earnest then, as well as the frosts. I would need the PHT x SAGE and Bangi Haze to bring down the ripening date of Mangobiche or Punto Rojo. I could really have something of high quality Colombian type using these lines as parents. Neither the PHT x SAGE nor the Bangi Haze have couch-lock associated with them. The Colombian style stone/high blend would be popular around here, even more so than trippy/speedy/euphoric types that I prefer. If I got really, really lucky, the Thai, Congo, and Nepalese embedded in these lines might allow an early trippy/speedy/euphoric individual to pop out one day. Dang! Now I have Mangobiche on my mind. This is another reason I'm not a good breeder. I'm too easily distracted.
O.K., I'll try to focus on my main goal (trippy/speedy/euphoric), for now, and post my next one up for testing, a Zamaldelica related plant. Once again, here is a Zamal leaning Zamaldelica crossed with an up version of Malawi Gold, just two weeks into flowering:
Have a nice trip,
ThaiBliss
de145, you seem to be a person of scientific standards and practices when it comes to your passions, which I can strongly relate to
Do you always sample from the exact same point on the plant? If not, might I suggest in the same of science, that growing a few cuts of the same plant, and taking them at different harvest times would be more accurate than sampling different parts of the same plant at different points in the plant's life? I've also personally found that living with and sampling the entire plant throughout it's curing life to be the best way to determine how a plant effects me, let's not forget that cannabis effects change throughout the cure, some more so than others.
Cheers to the search for knowledge
Hey B.A.L (Axis?), I do try to be scientific with my hobby, beyond the satisfaction of consuming it I'm *really* into the botanical aspects of it which I find just as rewarding and to be honest I think we're still in the heyday of discovering new stuff about this plant.
In my situation the place to take samples on plants is always the same place because I use a modular scrog system (I learned here from user VerdantGreen who is a master at it and any LED grower would do well to take a look at his threads, particularly if you're trying to tamely grow crazy sativas because it's absolutely ideal for that).
Every plant from the most indica to the most sativa leaning are basically trained to scrog into "carpets" of even height buds generally 3 inches to 6 inches high and I sample from the tips of which there are plenty so it's easy and no loss. My cabinet is too short to go much higher or they bleach out under the powerful LED.
If you squint they kind of look like a view from above of a very old evergreen forest with multiple "trees" evenly spread out so sampling is pretty consistent, I just take a tip anywhere, they're all the same.
I hope your harvest turns out the way you like it. You are exactly on the right track in my opinion when you say that it's important to sample throughout the cure and adjust harvest time accordingly. A lot of the "rules" put out there for harvest seem to be related to commercial growers but it's an entirely different situation for us personal use growers, we often store for long periods of time so it's even worse if we harvest too late and end up with crappy headache inducing THC breakdown CBN and no "high" to speak of, just a confused heavy stone.
I use baby food jars to keep small samples and for important ones like my Panama I kept a separate baby food jar of harvest from every week throughout the harvest window, then sampled them over time as they cured to determine the most potent harvest time. (I believe the plant is either right or not and has only one peak harvest time just like apples or tomatoes so I don't adjust my harvest to try to get a different effect, I just toss the plant and try another if it's not right).
I definitely agree with you about experimenting with identical clones, unfortunately I have a small growing cabinet and only four slots to grow in and am still hunting for phenos so it's a bit hard to do at the moment. If it's ever fully legalized I will scale this up dramatically but until then I'll keep plugging away as best I can.
S
smallgardener
