you just need the same things we do up here. Good neighbors , privacy , and painstakingly difficult access.
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Wholesale pot prices plummet. Now there starting to get better
- Thread starter SeniorBuzz
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KillBillbuds
Active member
A lot of good info here! A lot of peeps keeping it real!
But it sounds like SCE costs are higher than what you guys are paying with PGE...my 8k plus veg room costs me in excess of $2400 this summer with the AC running 24/7. Residential electric rates have gone up considerably...my biggest bill 5 years ago was $1500.
You've got to consistantly & continuously pull 2 per like BYF stated...or eventually switch to commercial space...or get a day job.
But it sounds like SCE costs are higher than what you guys are paying with PGE...my 8k plus veg room costs me in excess of $2400 this summer with the AC running 24/7. Residential electric rates have gone up considerably...my biggest bill 5 years ago was $1500.
You've got to consistantly & continuously pull 2 per like BYF stated...or eventually switch to commercial space...or get a day job.
I can't speak on anyone else but when I was running in SCE industrial my bill was only $380 a month runnin 4k plus veg and almost 3 tons of window a/c's...my SCE residential 4kw at a house in the summer where the bill is already @ about 350 a month without the grow(already into the top tier), its 8-900 with the 4k and a one ton a/c and veg so that's 450-550 a month cost of grow, but I air cool my lights so I don't need to bang a huge a/c...I focus on efficiency though...I have an energy star rated grow room lmfao who know's maybe I have less local taxes/delivery fee's than some cities that are also SCE
PGE rating coastal humboldt is almost .50 cents for residential.
If you apply for care discount and grow you're getting busted ...
Commercial rate coastal Humboldt is .16 cents.
I don't understand the economics of having a power bill that is a multiple of the mortgage / rent ... Unless you're doing 40 lights getting 2 plus and on commercial power your margins suck..I hate to break it to you. You can talk about relative crushing it, but hate the great thing about economics, nothing is relative. Numbers just don't lie.
If you apply for care discount and grow you're getting busted ...
Commercial rate coastal Humboldt is .16 cents.
I don't understand the economics of having a power bill that is a multiple of the mortgage / rent ... Unless you're doing 40 lights getting 2 plus and on commercial power your margins suck..I hate to break it to you. You can talk about relative crushing it, but hate the great thing about economics, nothing is relative. Numbers just don't lie.
In So Cali, you can also request to be billed under "Time of Use" tariff rates...lower TOU rates are from 6PM to 12 Noon...and expensive rates are from Noon to 6PM. I save about $5k each year just with TOU billing.
Also...if you grow in your home and the space you use is "extra", then you have another factor to calculate--"rent". Option 1 commercial property with rent and cheaper power rates...or Option 2 no rent and expensive power. Probably a toss up for most setups--especially since 150 amp service is the norm where I live (which can be pushed to 175 if you know how to do it).
Also...if you grow in your home and the space you use is "extra", then you have another factor to calculate--"rent". Option 1 commercial property with rent and cheaper power rates...or Option 2 no rent and expensive power. Probably a toss up for most setups--especially since 150 amp service is the norm where I live (which can be pushed to 175 if you know how to do it).
technically the margin is the same, although the scale is larger and thus the gross increases...one light will cost to the same to run whether it's the only one, or one of 40, and if production from 1 light is the same as the production of one of 40 lights than technically the margins are the same. although obviously the more lights your running the cheaper the real estate is for each, I basically paid $100 per month per light for rent at my old industrial spot, had I of been running 40kw than my rent per light per month would have been $10, that's a big difference but saying there is very little profit to be had running a smaller scale just as if not more so efficient doesn't add up to be a huge difference. basically each light @ my industrial cost me $175/mo for power and rent + maybe $100 total in nutes and medium per light per run so the cost of producing 1.5# is roughly $450...which move for 3+ a unit...so I'm looking at around a $4000 return on a $450 investment...ANY business would be THRILLED to have that kind of margin...
SCE subjects you to a home efficiency inspection if you have high use and use care down here, top tier residential is $.27/kwh for me, no CARE
the main reason commercial power is cheaper is that it's 3 phase, and cities often tax businesses less than residences to encourage the growth of said businesses which in turn equal more local tax revenue..
BTW...SCE summer rates for TOU "on peak" is $0.35 (tier 1) and $0.49 (tier 2) kwh and "off peak" is $0.13 (tier 1) and 0.28 (tier 2) kwh.
It does not take much to blow through the tier 1 allocation...so the garden runs basically on tier 2 rates...49 cents vs 28 cents, almost 50% difference. It takes just a call to SCE to make the change to TOU tariff and save a few benjamins.
It does not take much to blow through the tier 1 allocation...so the garden runs basically on tier 2 rates...49 cents vs 28 cents, almost 50% difference. It takes just a call to SCE to make the change to TOU tariff and save a few benjamins.
where your logic fails though brother is where you yourself mention the fact that the fixed costs associated with 1 or 40 lights is the same thing. The Rent for the warehouse is the same weather you put 4k or 40 in it, so you should put 40 to make each light cost less over all...
40kw at 2 per 4 crops a year on commercial power and you can still function as a business.
I mentioned the difference in per light real estate because I understand that it is a factor to consider, my main point is that there is still a nice margin whether you're paying a total cost of $450 per light per run or $360....at the end of the run that light's worth $4500-6500 if $90 is make it or break it in terms of margin for you than I don't know what to say....even across 40 lights that only adds up to $3600 saved on a gross of $200k+...It's a negligible amount of $ imho...not trying to argue with anyone, but as you've said the numbers don't lie and getting close to 10x return on investment is a great margin to be had...shit, most legit businesses thrive on margins much slimmer than that....I've been just fine with 4-6kw for years, and my personal experiences don't offer any validity to your statement that you have to have 40kw and hit 2 per to survive in cali's market, that's all im sayin bro, youre basically saying guys like me are done...I'm basically saying I'm not. and fwiw I think there's an overwhelming chance that the guy with 80 bows is droppin his unit prices more than $45 a pop... so in theory the margins are actually higher in a smaller setup although cost of production is slightly higher, the added cost is offset by the higher unit price that the smaller grower will typically get due to bigger grower simply taking less per unit in order to move the bulk in a timely manner..... now having some crap product on the other hand...that will knock you outta the game with the quickness...unless of course you have 40kw of it and you can make just enough to survive on much tighter margins
I guess its the relative definition of Surviving
^^^ Very true, different needs for all of us, I can't say what anyone "needs" besides myself, I don't live like a king but I can't complain. my only point in all of this is the margins aren't nearly as tight as they are being portrayed, but this is all just from where I'm standing....fwiw 5.5 runs per year is my norm, like I said there's not a whole lot of down time to make the 4k work but I'm fine with that
not to say I wouldn't LOVE to have a larger grow by any means...I'm just not comfortable goin hard like that where I'm at
not to say I wouldn't LOVE to have a larger grow by any means...I'm just not comfortable goin hard like that where I'm at
It takes more equipment / infrastructure and thus costs more money to transmit power to residential areas (substations, pole transformers, etc), as well as install and maintain / service (outages, poles, wire, technicians, etc). Industrial areas have even cheaper power than "office" type areas, and usually comes in at a higher voltage than residential (meaning less step-down and other equipment for them; higher voltage transmission also saves a lot of copper).
There are other factors involved as well (including politics, laws, regulations, subsidies), but that's one of the major reasons.
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noyd666
ANYTHING LIKE OZ ,ALL ABOUT BACK POCKET= GREED. GOLDING THE POLES.
furrywall11
Member
Thanks for the tip about Care..I don't need the discount that bad.
This year I'm seriously pondering rented a back ho and making an underground baffle for a 40kw diesel generator...I know, they don't make that much noise but my nearest neighbor is close enough so that it'd be mildly annoying--like a air conditioner or something--and it's all about keeping the neighbors happy...
This year I'm seriously pondering rented a back ho and making an underground baffle for a 40kw diesel generator...I know, they don't make that much noise but my nearest neighbor is close enough so that it'd be mildly annoying--like a air conditioner or something--and it's all about keeping the neighbors happy...
When I did the math for generators, I remember it not being much cheaper than PG&E and that's only for diesel fuel, not including equipment investment. Also, farm dyed diesel isn't that much cheaper. Solar seems like a better investment but I don't know anything about that stuff.
