Whats up with my roots?

[40AmpstoFreedom]

what brand of coco did that shit come in?

please dont say cocogro...

I don't think it matters I have seen everything from foxfarm, roots organics, and most types of coco. I am not trying bash a brand when it seems this shit is everywhere throughout the U.S. On any site there an exorbitant amount of aphid infestations and everyone is saying the same thing...unkillable.

Really fuckin frustrating. We will see if the met 52 and botanigard work, but they definitely came back and got my plants that were vegging in solo cups with only three grains of met 52. I should have had a gram so I low dosed them. Meanwhile 8 plants potted into 1 gallon containers with 2 grams of met are looking untouched...

I can only hope the ones I transferred a week after the others (yesterday) do the same thing...will know in a week.

 

[farmdalefurr]

is this occuring more in the "loose" coco?

if so, thank god i only get the 5kg bricks

 

[inreplyavalon]

Really fuckin frustrating. We will see if the met 52 and botanigard work, but they definitely came back and got my plants that were vegging in solo cups with only three grains of met 52. I should have had a gram so I low dosed them. Meanwhile 8 plants potted into 1 gallon containers with 2 grams of met are looking untouched...

I can only hope the ones I transferred a week after the others (yesterday) do the same thing...will know in a week.

Sorry to hear they are still around your garden 40. How are your larger flowering plants that you added the met to a while back?

I have used Botanigard and can confirm that it probably does not kill all of them... always a chance i missed a few, as it needs to come into contact, but i did see some cruising around a few days after using it.

I have some plants that were transplanted into met inoculated coco about 3-4 weeks ago and they are ion week 2 of flower and so far so good.
Then in another space 5 gallon plants that were transplanted with met around the same time look like they are suffering.
Lastly some seedlings that are about 3 weeks old were transplanted into keg cups with about 10-14 grains of met and they definitely still have aphids.

At this point i am just hoping they provide control and i can still pull some numbers with them.

Good luck y'all

 

[pinecone]

/shrug no idea ;\ I am really frustrated with these things though.

Can you get some magnification on the colony in fresh coco?

The reason I bring this up is that it seems very unlikely that you would find things like RAs or spider mites (plant eaters) in fresh coco with nothing growing it it. It seems far more likely that you would encounter one of the 100s if not 1000s of species of soil mites and other small critters that feed on decaying organic matter, bacteria, fungus, or each other. There is nothing for a RA to eat in fresh bagged coco unless they like to feed on something other than roots.

I've had outbreaks of harmless-beneficial white mite looking bugs in my coco-mix that looked like some sort of mycelium. There are lots of bugs in my coco mix. If I see a large increase in the population of a bug the first thing I check to see is where the bugs are feeding, in particular whether they are feeding around stuff that is dead or alive. I'm only worried if they are on fresh plant material.

Pine

 

[MacGyver420]

..

 

[Kcar]

Watched the vid. They have RA and SpiderMites. RA's stay in the rootball mostly.
Those were Pacific Spider Mites on the leaves.

 

[MacGyver420]

..

 

[hydr1]

Didnt read through this whole thread, is there a reason you guys aren't using Bayer advanced fruit and vegi to kill the RA?

Both times I have seen them a 5ml to a gallon solution was made and used as a full submersion for five minutes per plant . Never saw them again. Home depot15$ fix.

Anything else is a ways of time and money. Ed is an obvious clown to say botaniguard or pyrethrums or anything else will kill them forever.

Please take the time to read the root aphid thread here. It is very very long , but that is because it took guys like you years, hundreds of thousands of dollars, relocation ect to figure out what works. Don't insult them by over looking hundreds of hours of research and trial/error. Bayer advanced at 30ml a gallon. But make sure you soak the plant upto the stock. We used a Bayer solution to wash the roots out completely and transplant and then drench with a fresh batch of solution. They will try to climb stalks, if you have fliars, your fucked(like webs for mites)
As the population increased and becomes over crowded, they grow wings and fly to a new source. They are asexual. Don't need a mate to lay thousands of eggs. They survive in any medium. Nothing organic will wipe them out. Only hold them at bay. They will hide in drains, or any other damp areas opposite of mites. They love humid climates. Cedar Trees are known to be frequented by them. Ants work together with them in a synoptic relationship.

I just rea this whole thread and it seems you guys are underestimating these things. Worm shit, nemotoads, azamax, physan, neem, pyrithrans, bacterias or anything else a hydro store could possibly sell you WILL NOT WORK!



There is a ton of research documented on this site in relation to the many products that have failed to kill RA. I was educated here and when I saw symptoms in other gardens I knew right away how to kill them forever.

 

[inreplyavalon]

Please take the time to read the root aphid thread here. It is very very long , but that is because it took guys like you years, hundreds of thousands of dollars, relocation ect to figure out what works. Don't insult them by over looking hundreds of hours of research and trial/error. Bayer advanced at 30ml a gallon.

Um OK... I like your enthusiasm but yeah i and others in this thread have read and participated in the TWO root aphid threads. But on behalf of anyone that hasn't, thanks for the tip.

So your saying you dipped your entire root balls into a solution of Bayer ADVANCED and that is what will eradicate them. A little confusion with that statement. If in fact you do mean you dipped the rootballs, Bayer Advanced fruit and veggie only has imidacloprid in it, which is not a contact killer but a systemic. So being sure it comes into contact with the aphids won't do diddly. It needs to be uptaken by roots and then the aphids eat the roots, then they die.
What i learned from the Aphid threads was that Bayer COMPLETE is the most useful as it has a contact killer, and the systemic imidicloprid. I have used that more than once, at 40 ml. a gallon. Drench to waste. It has fought them, but i don;t think for a minute they are all gone.
Just trying to be as precise as possible and encourage others to be as well, as i agree that learning from others trials and errors is a beautiful and worthy thing.
Cheers

 

[Granger2]

Hydr1,
I've read the threads too. I'm doing my own research and trial/error. So don't insult me and the rest of us who are trying different methods with your close minded ranting.

I've seen nothing that kills them once and for all. Possibly, those of us who are in this fight, and haven't decided that everything with merit has been done and tried, will stumble onto something that works as well or better than systemic insecticides that aren't labeled for food crops and claim season long control.

>Both times I have seen them a 5ml to a gallon solution was made >and used as a full submersion for five minutes per plant . Never >saw them again. Home depot15$ fix.

So...you never saw them again...both times. Interesting.

I'm offended that you would call someone with the long and well earned status in the community for helping thousands of growers for decades as Ed Rosenthal a "clown."

>Ants work together with them in a synoptic relationship.

I guess you mean "symbiotic?"

And if you didn't take the time to read this whole thread, please do so. You may learn something. -granger

 

[Granger2]

Hydr1,
I've read the threads too. I'm doing my own research and trial/error. So don't insult me and the rest of us who are trying different methods by lecturing us with your close minded ranting.

I've seen nothing that kills them once and for all. Possibly, those of us who are in this fight, and haven't decided that everything with merit has been done and tried, will stumble onto something that works as well or better than systemic insecticides that aren't labeled for food crops and claim season long control.

>Both times I have seen them a 5ml to a gallon solution was made >and used as a full submersion for five minutes per plant . Never >saw them again. Home depot15$ fix.

So...you never saw them again...both times. Interesting.

I'm offended that you would call someone with the long and well earned status in the community for helping thousands of growers for decades as Ed Rosenthal a "clown."

>Ants work together with them in a synoptic relationship.

I guess you mean "symbiotic?"

And if you didn't take the time to read this whole thread, please do so. You may learn something. -granger

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

i never saw the white colonies anywhere in my plants; although i did find what looked to be a dark-gray stringy mold growing in the air pockets of my coco; it was not a dense mold but it seemed to cover a rather large area.
i examined this with a 60x scope and there were no moving bugs or bugs of any-kind in the mold (no roots either) i really don't know what to make of that. has anyone else seen that?

Exactly my experience. I have never seen a crawler no matter how many times I check my roots with a canon camera on macro...I saw flyers a week or so ago again and they have completely trashed my grow again.

-I never have seen a crawler I have seen tons of flyers but last few months have only been 3-4 usually throughout the grow yet the whole thing is still ruined.
-Never saw white colonies until the bag of coco I opened and transplanted from a week + ago and it was not a 100% ID as I did not take pictures or see any crawlers I just assumed after I was on a university site and no other coco was like this.
-I never saw the black/greyish/slimy mold before until I checked my roots earlier today in all my plants 60+ flowering and decided to throw them all away.
-There is also white slimy shit just like the mold accept white.
-The roots eventually brown and rot

The slimy stuff is not very prevalent it is very hard to see and find most times only in a few places...

I did not know if the slimy stuff is a result of the roots rotting or what but it is definitely the same thing you are seeing. I do not think it is just roots rotting because it is often found where there are no roots, but also clearly where there are many.

These things have completely wiped me out and have me chucking year + worth of breeding work and moms and dads I can never ever get again in next few days...I already chucked my entire grow:

Here is a post I just had to make:

I didn't want dramatize anything so I haven't been posting lately, but my aphids came back after a month+ of disappearing again and I have had to throw everything away. I still have all of my moms and breeding projects sitting in a rubbermaid, because it is really hard for me to chuck everything I worked very hard on over the past couple of years, but I have lost 4 crops in a row now, even had to move locations.

I've used every pesticide possible:

Pyrethrum
Pyrethrin
Bifrenthin
Cyperethrin
Azadachtin
Merit 75
Met 52 (fungus)
Spinosad

List could go on, but I can't remember the others...

Nothing works. I have turned what was a completely organic environment where plants were grown to perfection with ease, to a chemical plant for a grow room. I even switched medium to CoCo which seems to have exacerbated the bug issue after completely moving locations and sanitizing everything, only brought clones of my moms and dads to new location that were all pretreated with azamax and merit.

Long story short, I am going to try one more grow coming up and if it doesn't work I will have to go get a normal job again and save up to restart as all of my fund have been drained with my move to a new state and 4 subsequent failed grows. I really thought I had eliminated them this time or I would have never started this thread, but they just never seem to go away. When I found 3 flying ones shortly after I posted the veg pic I decided to run my plants until Christmas to see if I could recover but they are completely stalled and all have the aphid symptoms. After I trash the rest of my plants tomorrow I will be bombing the house and applying 10 million nematodes of various types that all kill aphids around the house. I will be switching back to organics and will be eliminating every grow product besides lights and ballasts in case there are eggs on them.

We will see if the nematodes work. If they don't I have no answers and it seems no one else does either for these pests. There is thread after thread filled with chemicals that do not work no matter how often you apply and a whole lot of people that echo my experience. They don't die and don't go away.

I hope this thread is allowed to stay open because in a couple of months if my problem is cured by going back to organics and using beneficial insects by the millions, I would love to do this grow organically and complete the thread. There is a HUGE difference between the two different breeders products. Large enough to make me interested enough to come back and finish this thread. When I tore my plants down today they were 20-25 inches vegged and the difference between them was undeniable. They were just too sick to go on, but this is definitely a thread that needs to be done by more than just me.

I hope I can come back and finish this thread in 3 months we will see though I now no longer have any faith in a cure other than completely restarting in a new location from absolute scratch. I can definitely see how these things took out the entire wine industry in France in the 1800's. They are absolutely brutal and unrelenting. Hope none of you ever run into the ones that are chemical resistant ; \ I will for now on always pretreat my mediums with beneficial nematodes cuz once you see them it is too late your roots will just rot out.

I have really given up. Pretreating with nematodes and going back organics is my last attempt ;\ Going to throw in bayer tree and shrub although I use merit 75 and it doesn't kill them off. I am completely out of ideas on what to do.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

I was recommended malathion by Chimera today and it is really cheap so I am going to try this out as well as the botanigard and nematodes. I will let you guys know in some months if it worked.

 

[Roof Berry]

I am really happy I found this thread. I have been experiencing painfully slow veg growth, cuttings and seedlings dying. I know I have fungas gnats, i see some crawl in the coco after you flood the medium, I see them flying. I have never seen mite looking things with legs ( aphids)

So I panicked and this is what I did.

I rinsed the pots in physan20, then rinsed the entire rootball in h2o2 water, and I mean completely rinsed all the coco off, and placed every single plant in sure to grow loose fill ( its the stuff that looks like cotton)

Throwing every single ounce of coco away. I plan on fogging and cleaning room as well.
What a bitch

If things get better Ill post so.

 

[inreplyavalon]

I was recommended malathion by Chimera today and it is really cheap so I am going to try this out as well as the botanigard and nematodes. I will let you guys know in some months if it worked.

What size pots do you use? Did you notice any difference when you used the met52? I have found that with bigger pots, 3-5 gallon smart/geo pots plants do a lot better. Also the met52 seems to be working well for me at 2.5 weeks into bloom. When i up-potted from 1 to 4 gallons, i added about 8-9 grams around the rootball, and i think it is having the desired effect. This is the first time i have seen furry roots in a while. I still got a ways to go, and i know those little bastards like to show up around week 4, but so far its working. Also, I did a triazicide/merit75 dose at 2weeks of veg, then again at week 4 of veg, then flipped them two weeks later.
Cleaned the shit out of my room, wifey and I, bleaching the walls and then going nuclear with some hardware store pyrethium bombs. I had hundreds of gnats last round, feeding on the decaying roots. Fingers crossed, but i have not seen a flying bug in a few weeks.

EDIT: After reading all these horror stories of re-occurrence, i am going to give all my ladies my last dose of botanigard, and hopefully that will slow down any survivors. Control is the name of the game with these critters.

 

[MacGyver420]

..

 

[Sam87]

What's up Inrep? Sorry you still haven't got these fuckers dead yet. Me either.

After months of battling unacceptable yields and major root die off, I have to conclude that I too have root aphids. Or whatever these things are, because they don't look or behave like any of the older descriptions of the damned things. I decided to take my treatments for aphids a lot more seriously, and I've seen improvements, so I have to assume that it's them.

Lost all my old genetics (yay for F2s). Got them carried over to the new genetics. Now I am in the process of fighting these things again, on cuts that carry less resistance to them than my old ones. . .

40amps, Macgyver, your experiences are pretty similar to mine. Never seen a crawler, except maybe once, and it moved so damned fast that I couldn't keep up with it in maybe a tsp. worth of soil. They really seem to hate light or something, they run like mad for shelter every time you dig them up. Flyers on yellow sticky traps though, always right when the plants really crash and go to shit. I have the moldy looking stuff too, which will range in colour from white to blueish gray to brown, seemingly dependant on the moisture content of the soil. This mold, and lack of apparent bugs, is what led me to believe I had a fungal or viral issue before. Came off Cocogro, and were completely unmanageable in that media. Switched back to soil.

We need to find an entemologist from Sri Lanka to figure these bitches out or something. I assume that's where they are from, as they aren't the usual variety, and they seem to be coming from all brands of medium containing coco.

Just pulled 2.5 lbs off of three lights. With large yielding plants, lol (Bluebonics). Managed to get them through to a proper bud maturity this time though, so at least the quality is good, and the electricity is still on.

I have found that mixing Bayer and Triazicide (Bayer 3TBS/g, Tria as directed) can knock down numbers enough so that you can scramble out a harvey. But who the fuck wants to smoke that shit, and why would I want to bust ass for .25gpw? Need to get these fuckers dead. . .

Going to try running Bayer, Triazicide, Sevin, and Acephate for a month straight or so. Full dip, in pot, in a 50 gal trashcan for 10 minutes a piece after total saturation. Probably switch it up, and alternate Bayer&Sevin with Orthene&Triazicide. Pyrethrum bombs every other day. Room torn down, vacced, scrubbed, bleached, and bombed again. May also be ordering Malathion too, as well as anything else I can find that's not commonly used. These bastards have got to die somehow. I'll let you know how that goes.

Some advice: If you are in Smart Pots or Airpots, throw that shit away and encase those babies in plastic! Now! They love these things. This run was half Smart Pots, half grow bags,both 3 gal. The difference is hilarious. One half of the room was seriously a foot taller than the other half. I'll see about digging up some pictures, because it's so sad. I like the grow bags because they're cheap and disposable too. No kidding yourself about how good a job you did cleaning those fifty filthy infested Smart Pots. . .

Got about 50 White Chocolate F2s going, Mob Boss, The Profit, Serious AK, and the Bluebonics. Hoping I can find some slightly resistant keepers, if nothing else.

 

[inreplyavalon]

What's up Inrep? Sorry you still haven't got these fuckers dead yet. Me either.


Some advice: If you are in Smart Pots or Airpots, throw that shit away and encase those babies in plastic! Now! They love these things. This run was half Smart Pots, half grow bags,both 3 gal. The difference is hilarious. One half of the room was seriously a foot taller than the other half. I'll see about digging up some pictures, because it's so sad. I like the grow bags because they're cheap and disposable too. No kidding yourself about how good a job you did cleaning those fifty filthy infested Smart Pots. . .

Hey there Sam. I like your attitude! Don't let these bastards beat you. You're right something can kill them, and at least offer some control!
I found the opposite of what your saying about smartpots to be true. Did a side by side last round with 1 gallon grow bags, and 1 gallon geo/smartpots and the geo's absolutely doubled the size of the grow bags. Sounds like we got some inconclusive juxtaposed data! One thing with these bastards is that there are so many different kind. I have seen many small nearly microscopic aphids after looking at the roots for long periods, about 30 minutes. Not this round but last. was able to pull 12 off of 8400 last round when i had what i thought was a pretty bad infestation. They can be managed at least... Good luck bro
I am having some good luck so far on day 19 of bloom. I used merit/triazicide in veg along with met52 and i also just hit them tonight with botanigard. Got furry roots in flower for the first time in a long long time. Using GH rapid start along with hygrozyme to give the roots what i think they enjoy.
I'll keep this updated as to my progress.

 

[Sam87]

I found the opposite of what your saying about smartpots to be true. Did a side by side last round with 1 gallon grow bags, and 1 gallon geo/smartpots and the geo's absolutely doubled the size of the grow bags. Sounds like we got some inconclusive juxtaposed data!

That's interesting. They just decimated my Smart Pots , and took much longer to get up to speed in the cheapo bags. The room was initially spaced according to plant size, with all the pots mixed up. By week 3, the entire room was organized according to their pot type. Really surprised me, as I would have thought that a better root environ would give them a fighting chance, but I might as well have just shot myself in the foot.

They're some tenacious little bastards, that's for sure.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all.
"All I want for Christmas is insect-i-cide

Insect-i-cide, said insect-i-cide." . . .

 

[The Baphomet]

Has anyone tried MET 52 , It will destroy your root aphid problem. The ones we had were immune to IMID. Also the ones we had could not be seen with the naked eye they were micro size . The Met 52 is a fungus that attacks root aphids its granular and you mix it in your coco . This is the only thing that will totally wipe them out . just treat your coco before transplanting and the fungus will kill all stages of root aphids from larva to flyers .