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War

mean mr.mustard

I Pass Satellites
Veteran
I think it's been about 76 years since anyone needed to stage anything for someone to hate the state of Israel. Hamas wasn't onboard until 1987/1988. The Nakba? West Bank 'settlements'? Murdering and/or raping Palestinians with impunity? Shooting little kids for throwing stones at tanks? Rachel Corrie? Peace Flotilla? Yeah, maybe there've been decades of reasons to hate Israel before Hamas ever came to be? Tail wagging the dog much?



It's much more likely that Hamas intended for Israel to respond with swift vengeance rather than reasonable negotiation.

Any reasonable person would have expected violence in retaliation to violence.

Both sides will continue with their hateful violence... Hamas just wants more support, and they are certainly getting it.... from some surprising sources.
 

moose eater

Well-known member
Odd how some can come together to mutually loathe boundary-challenged, rampaging, thieving, murdering bullies who abuse their power and protection from a Super Power for 3/4 of a century+, isn't it? What on earth are those people thinking when they properly identify the abuser in a given situation?

Of course, there will still continue to be those who claim neutrality and 'both-sides-isms', despite the overwhelming evidence of the fallacy of this in any metric, but whose willful blindness makes another statement altogether.

There's a good reason some are on ignore.

People who are blind to their own bullshit rarely sit at my table. People who deflect when they've been lethargic and minimally true to their words never sit at my table.
 

mean mr.mustard

I Pass Satellites
Veteran
Odd how some can come together to mutually loathe boundary-challenged, rampaging, thieving, murdering bullies who abuse their power and protection from a Super Power for 3/4 of a century+, isn't it? What on earth are those people thinking when they properly identify the abuser in a given situation?

Of course, there will still continue to be those who claim neutrality and 'both-sides-isms', despite the overwhelming evidence of the fallacy of this in any metric, but whose willful blindness makes another statement altogether.

There's a good reason some are on ignore.

People who are blind to their own bullshit rarely sit at my table. People who deflect when they've been lethargic and minimally true to their words never sit at my table.

In case you have been too obsessed with labeling others, I think both sides are violent and they wish to remain so.

I am aware that Israel has grossly overstepped and has been in the wrong for genocidal destruction on a massive scale.

I simply pointed out that Hamas is equally bloodthirsty... and that crying out for more death is exactly the same thing that Hamas and Israel are doing.
 

moose eater

Well-known member
"Equally bloodthirsty"= bullshit. Only one is living on another's land. Only one is killing and raping without restraint. Only one is armed and protected by a Superpower.

Delusions and gross exaggerations are not the same thing as facts. 'Simply' is correct.

Already set for manure and guano this year.

 

Cannavore

Well-known member
Veteran
In case you have been too obsessed with labeling others, I think both sides are violent and they wish to remain so.
every able bodied man in this thread would be violent if zionists stole their homes and bulldozed their still living families. you're living in some deluded fantasy if you think otherwise, and you know this, which is why you never answered my hypothetical question.

I simply pointed out that Hamas is equally bloodthirsty
and you are simply wrong for the millionth time. israel killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands from 1947-1986 before hamas was even chartered in 1987. israel has killed more palestinian civilians since oct 7 than hamas has ever killed civilians + combatants.

and that crying out for more death is exactly the same thing that Hamas and Israel are doing.
should people who commit genocide and war crimes be brought to justice? should they be put to death?
 

mean mr.mustard

I Pass Satellites
Veteran
every able bodied man in this thread would be violent if zionists stole their homes and bulldozed their still living families. you're living in some deluded fantasy if you think otherwise, and you know this, which is why you never answered my hypothetical question.

What question didn't I answer?


and you are simply wrong for the millionth time. israel killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands from 1947-1986 before hamas was even chartered in 1987. israel has killed more palestinian civilians since oct 7 than hamas has ever killed civilians + combatants.

I'm not wrong. Hamas would kill just as many Israelis if they had the ability. You, yourself, have cried out for the death of Israel. You know where they're coming from.

should people who commit genocide and war crimes be brought to justice? should they be put to death?

Either way, that would include both sides.
 

mean mr.mustard

I Pass Satellites
Veteran
"Equally bloodthirsty"= bullshit.

It's absolutely true. Just because they can't kill as many at a time as Israel doesn't mean that they don't want to.

Only one is living on another's land. Only one is killing and raping without restraint. Only one is armed and protected by a Superpower.

That doesn't mean that the other side is less hateful or less willing to kill.

PS I could easily see that it would make them even more hateful and even more willing to kill.
 
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moose eater

Well-known member
should people who commit genocide and war crimes be brought to justice? should they be put to death?
Yes, and yes, but such a policy would scare the shit out of the US and it's 'cleaner' allies, might result in more soldiers refusing unlawful orders as provided fo0r in the UCMJ, and would piss off the DoD to the core.

We expect we and ours to be coated in Teflon where war crimes are concerned, no matter what. but we don't mind referring -others- to the World Court in The Hague. but the invisible proverbial 10-gallon white cowboy hats put us above all of that.
 

JKD

Well-known member
Veteran
I disagree with that assessment.

I think Hamas wanted to trade Israeli hostages for their terms or conditions involving an Israeli-free Gaza and West Bank..

Israel's Hannibal directive has been applied to IDF, et al, not necessarily civilians. I suspect involving Israeli citizens in an unleashing of the Hannibal directive surprised Hamas, as much as it did others.

I doubt very much that they intended for Gaza to be leveled and still not get their freedom from Israel's boot on their throats.

Israel being more isolated via the world's loathing of their criminal actions and history, doesn't mean that the US will allow Israel to receive the consequences they should have received many years ago, or that the US will stop wiping Bibi's ass for him.

I seriously doubt Hamas intended for the majority of their homeland to be leveled or for a significant percentage of their population to be murdered. The remainder of the saner world's condemnation of Israel won't get for the Palestinians or Hamas what they wanted.
Yes, it was foolish of me to agree to that statement.

I think Hamas had expected Israel’s disproportionate response and the killing of civilians. I believe they would have hoped for Israel to lose international support - perhaps even to come under pressure from the US.

But for most of Gaza to be razed? No, who would have expected that.
For Netanyahu to have no interest in seeing the hostages returned? No, who would have expected that.

Regarding US aid:
“In recent years, some U.S. and Israeli analysts have said that U.S. aid to Israel should be reevaluated because Israel is now a wealthy country—the fourteenth richest per capita—with one of the most advanced militaries in the world.”

But for the US to withhold its veto protection? Short of Israel building gas chambers, I don’t see it.
 

moose eater

Well-known member
Yes, it was foolish of me to agree to that statement.

I think Hamas had expected Israel’s disproportionate response and the killing of civilians. I believe they would have hoped for Israel to lose international support - perhaps even to come under pressure from the US.

But for most of Gaza to be razed? No, who would have expected that?
For Netanyahu to have no interest in seeing the hostages returned? No, who would have expected that.

Regarding US aid:
“In recent years, some U.S. and Israeli analysts have said that U.S. aid to Israel should be reevaluated because Israel is now a wealthy country—the fourteenth richest per capita—with one of the most advanced militaries in the world.”

But for the US to withhold its veto protection? Short of Israel building gas chambers, I don’t see it.


I think your assessment immediately above this post is apt.

And thank you for the video. Very adept (insightful and honest).

Israel is now the privileged spoiled child (and strategic, opportunistic US State Dept. experiment) of the US Yuppie-scum corporatist Government, as well as Germany and a couple/few others. Israel can do no wrong in their eyes. The spoiled child that is now Israel has had the supposed red lines moved again and again to where these supposed 'red lines', which represent very real prohibitions under international and US laws, now mean fuck all.

And we all have some idea, I think, of what it's like to have a spoiled kid in the neighborhood who answers to no one, not even the supposed parents. A kid beyond reproach no matter what the little pissant does.

Eventually someone does for that spoiled brat what the parents SHOULD have done.

Me, I'm impatient waiting for the overdue come-uppance, and all of the apologists masking their bullshit with the woulda', shoulda', coulda' nonsense about what Palestine or Hamas MIGHT do if they had a chance means nothing, other than to say that the longer Palestine is subjected to this, the greater the likelihood that there will be justifiable hell to pay in one way or another.

More towers in Manhattan dropping? More missiles into Israel? More US military bases being attacked elsewhere (where they probably don't belong in the first fucking place)? Consulates made fair game after Israel's stunts blowing them up? World War III as a result of preferred limited blindness to atrocities.? Take your pick, but it's coming. Set your watch to it.

I'm out to park several vehicles in the road so I can get this slushy bullshit that froze up last night plowed. The dude's on his way, so I'm moving a bit faster now.
 
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mean mr.mustard

I Pass Satellites
Veteran
But for the US to withhold its veto protection? Short of Israel building gas chambers, I don’t see it.

Why on Earth would that be?

We could see it being prudent, if we were as shortsighted as to think that Palestine would cease to appease other Arabs into a holy war.

Perhaps people believe that both sides are not equally as passionate... or as provocative.
 

JKD

Well-known member
Veteran
Why on Earth would that be?

We could see it being prudent, if we were as shortsighted as to think that Palestine would cease to appease other Arabs into a holy war.

Perhaps people believe that both sides are not equally as passionate... or as provocative.
I doubt that’s it, otherwise the UN as a whole would share the same view.

And no, no holy war either.
 

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