War

[JKD]

you're free to believe whatever you like.

i believe the only way out of this is a political solution. there is opportunity for building a political solution with Palestinian people now that Hamas and Hezbollah are decapitated.
you seem to believe that the only way out is the destruction of the only Jewish state.

I like the sentiment you expressed regarding peace, security and human dignity, and I also like the idea of a political solution.
But.
The Knesset has been right wing for 23 years, Netanyahu led for 17. They have senior members of government describing Palestinians as human animals and expressing the desire for all Palestinians to leave. They have politicians expressing frustration that the IDF won’t target buildings without some justification. They are organising and funding the illegal occupations.

What political solution have they the will for? Certainly none that balances Palestinian interests.

The US prevents this government being held to account.

If that doesn’t change, and this government doesn’t change, what hope for peace is there that isn’t the ethnic cleansing or extermination of one people or the other?

 

[Microbeman]

you're free to believe whatever you like.

i believe the only way out of this is a political solution. there is opportunity for building a political solution with Palestinian people now that Hamas and Hezbollah are decapitated.
you seem to believe that the only way out is the destruction of the only Jewish state.

I also believe the solution is political and through personal forgiveness. The Jewish (Israelis) and Palestinian (Arab) peoples must face each other (in a justice circle) and leave religious concepts in the back temporarily for peace arrangements to be made. They may need to be forced into the circle/meeting. Crimes of theft of property must be admitted and that property relinquished or otherwise compensated for. The two peoples must be blended, beginning on an even footing, either under one state (preferable IMO) or two. This has similarities to how they functioned in the past. It is harder to hate your neighbor when your kids go to school together. This may be a fantasy but I think it is what would work.

There is a greater chance of a murderer being rehabilitated if the mother of the victim has forgiven the murderer, just as there is a greater chance for hate and vengeance to die. War begets war and vengeance begets vengeance.

 

[moose eater]

So much for a 'peaceful political solution'.

"Our Job Is to Flatten Gaza. No One Will Stop Us."

Inside one Israeli battalion's yearlong mission of destruction

www.dropsitenews.com

 

[GenghisKush]

I also believe the solution is political and through personal forgiveness. The Jewish (Israelis) and Palestinian (Arab) peoples must face each other (in a justice circle) and leave religious concepts in the back temporarily for peace arrangements to be made. They may need to be forced into the circle/meeting. Crimes of theft of property must be admitted and that property relinquished or otherwise compensated for. The two peoples must be blended, beginning on an even footing, either under one state (preferable IMO) or two. This has similarities to how they functioned in the past. It is harder to hate your neighbor when your kids go to school together. This may be a fantasy but I think it is what would work.

There is a greater chance of a murderer being rehabilitated if the mother of the victim has forgiven the murderer, just as there is a greater chance for hate and vengeance to die. War begets war and vengeance begets vengeance.

agreed.

 

[JKD]

I also believe the solution is political and through personal forgiveness. The Jewish (Israelis) and Palestinian (Arab) peoples must face each other (in a justice circle) and leave religious concepts in the back temporarily for peace arrangements to be made. They may need to be forced into the circle/meeting. Crimes of theft of property must be admitted and that property relinquished or otherwise compensated for. The two peoples must be blended, beginning on an even footing, either under one state (preferable IMO) or two. This has similarities to how they functioned in the past. It is harder to hate your neighbor when your kids go to school together. This may be a fantasy but I think it is what would work.

There is a greater chance of a murderer being rehabilitated if the mother of the victim has forgiven the murderer, just as there is a greater chance for hate and vengeance to die. War begets war and vengeance begets vengeance.

Learn from the successes and failures of the Rwandan reconciliation model and incorporate the applicable.

But who makes it all happen, everyone meeting as equals?

 

[Microbeman]

Learn from the successes and failures of the Rwandan reconciliation model and incorporate the applicable.

But who makes it all happen, everyone meeting as equals?

Good idea - tough minds with a stick - like I have done with dueling street kids.

 

[moose eater]

Much like the average narcissist, no self-awareness or admission about what MIGHT have led up to October 7th.

Bibi, fuck right off.

 

[right]

Did Jews take Israel away from Palestinians? - The Jewish Federation of Sarasota-Manatee

Immediately after World War II, under the British Mandate, Jewish refugees from the Holocaust were limited to 18,000 per year. Thus...

jfedsrq.org

 

[Cannavore]

 

[JKD]

Did Jews take Israel away from Palestinians? - The Jewish Federation of Sarasota-Manatee

Immediately after World War II, under the British Mandate, Jewish refugees from the Holocaust were limited to 18,000 per year. Thus...

jfedsrq.org

It is not disputed Jewish people have lived there for centuries. But for centuries they have been a minority.

“In the late 19th century, 99.7% of the world's Jews lived outside the region, with Jews representing 2–5% of the population of the Palestine region.”

Aliyah - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

By the time of the British mandate it had been under Ottoman rule for 400 years. It hadn’t been under Jewish rule for >1300 years.

 

[Cannavore]

 

[moose eater]

 

[moose eater]

It is not disputed Jewish people have lived there for centuries. But for centuries they have been a minority.

“In the late 19th century, 99.7% of the world's Jews lived outside the region, with Jews representing 2–5% of the population of the Palestine region.”

Aliyah - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

By the time of the British mandate it had been under Ottoman control for 400 years. It hadn’t been under Jewish control for >1300 years.

Not to mention over 140 states/nations at the UN and the World Court all say that Gaza and the West Bank belong to the Palestinians, and even the primary accomplice in genocide, the USA, admits the West Bank 'settlements' are illegal. And Israel hasn't abided by their legal boundaries since shortly after they were formed as a state.

And even many centuries ago, the Bedouin were there.

So there's that, too.

 

[Cannavore]

 

[JKD]

Menachem Begin. Irgun terrorist, founder of Likud, 6th Prime Minister of Israel.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Hamas is getting everything that they want.

 

[JKD]

Hamas is getting everything that they want.

This is what I think also.

 

[moose eater]

This is what I think also.

I disagree with that assessment.

I think Hamas wanted to trade Israeli hostages for their terms or conditions involving an Israeli-free Gaza and West Bank..

Israel's Hannibal directive has been applied to IDF, et al, not necessarily civilians. I suspect involving Israeli citizens in an unleashing of the Hannibal directive surprised Hamas, as much as it did others.

I doubt very much that they intended for Gaza to be leveled and still not get their freedom from Israel's boot on their throats.

Israel being more isolated via the world's loathing of their criminal actions and history, doesn't mean that the US will allow Israel to receive the consequences they should have received many years ago, or that the US will stop wiping Bibi's ass for him.

I seriously doubt Hamas intended for the majority of their homeland to be leveled or for a significant percentage of their population to be murdered. The remainder of the saner world's condemnation of Israel won't get for the Palestinians or Hamas what they wanted.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

What if they want you to hate Israel?

 

[moose eater]

I think it's been about 76 years since anyone needed to stage anything for someone to hate the state of Israel. Hamas wasn't onboard until 1987/1988. The Nakba? West Bank 'settlements'? Murdering and/or raping Palestinians with impunity? Shooting little kids for throwing stones at tanks? Rachel Corrie? Peace Flotilla? Yeah, maybe there've been decades of reasons to hate Israel before Hamas ever came to be? Tail wagging the dog much?