Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

[gabjaz]

Hi HempKat,

The buds from my first harvest of the two plants don't feel quite as dry as they did. I'm still pretty sure I over dried them. After 2 days in the small jars the still felt very dry and brittle. Maybe, I had the jars too full and they couldn't sweat properly? I moved them to a lager jar and only 1/2 full. I have been opening the jars everyday for about 5 minutes.

I also ordered the clay extruder and I followed Hoosier's recipe for has. It worked great!

You guys are the best!!

Peace, Gabs

 

[Gold123]

hi all ive posted this on the new growers forum but havent had any replys so i thought id try here and pick the heads of the best IC has to offer...

this is my first grow im growing in canna coco using canna nutes im 4 1/2 weeks into 12-12 according to the canna nute chart it says in the final week or two to stop all nutes appart from boost.

so my question is this do i stick to the caana chart and feed boost upto harvest or do i have to take into account for a week or so of water flush.

the reason i ask is because i was reading another members grow journal and he said "whats the point of giving your ladies a habit only to make them go cold turkey" and before i could ask him about it i lost internet connection and couldnt remember his name so now im throwing it open to anyone with any advice

thanks for your input in advance..bud.

Canna Boost is 0-0.1-0.1 not much nutrients there, what I kind of remember is it is mostly sugars and quite expensive, I switched to black strap molasses a long time ago. If you want to use boost using it as a foliar spray is way cheaper (recommended by my local hydro store)

 

[bud lover]

thanks very much hempcat that was exactly why i joined IC, the experienced growers making every newbie feel like they can pick their brains and get the knowledge only years of growing gives...cheers i guess im going all the way to the end with boost.

Canna Boost is 0-0.1-0.1 not much nutrients there, what I kind of remember is it is mostly sugars and quite expensive, I switched to black strap molasses a long time ago. If you want to use boost using it as a foliar spray is way cheaper (recommended by my local hydro store)

thanks for yr reply gold but am i not right in thinking that foliar spray is the last thing you should do when your plants are full of bud. is that not how bud mold and powdery mildew start???

 

[Gold123]

thanks very much hempcat that was exactly why i joined IC, the experienced growers making every newbie feel like they can pick their brains and get the knowledge only years of growing gives...cheers i guess im going all the way to the end with boost.



thanks for yr reply gold but am i not right in thinking that foliar spray is the last thing you should do when your plants are full of bud. is that not how bud mold and powdery mildew start???

My bad, I wouldn't use it then either, but before the last 2 weeks is when I used to use it. Way too expensive for what it is, or is not. Otherwise it is a good product I have nothing negative about it except the cost.

 

[bud lover]

yeah i gota agree with the cost thing but i think some shops take the piss coz they know you need it. i went to 1 local shop and they wanted £56 a litre i went to another less than 2 mile away and they only wanted £45 so i guess it pays to shop about.
as for the foliar spray some1 also said to do this but only the first 4weeks so i might give this a go the next time round see how much it saves me.

 

[Gold123]

yeah i gota agree with the cost thing but i think some shops take the piss coz they know you need it. i went to 1 local shop and they wanted £56 a litre i went to another less than 2 mile away and they only wanted £45 so i guess it pays to shop about.
as for the foliar spray some1 also said to do this but only the first 4weeks so i might give this a go the next time round see how much it saves me.

Whoa that's costly, $72 to $85 US, go with black strap molasses instead.
Here is the thread:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=94653

 

[HempKat]

Hey Hemp and all.. . back with a question about cloning. I've had relatively good success so far. This is my 3rd time around and out of 12 or 14 i've only lost maybe 2, (except for the couple that I pulled due to their moms turned out to be dads) The first round I used the water only method, the second I let them sit in water a few days, dipped in rooting powder and put them in soil, this time I dipped them in rooting powder and then straight to soil. This last time seemed like the least stressful, just from watching them.
What I'm wondering is, if anyone feels they have a good system that gets them going fast, (besides buying a bunch of stuff like clone machines or contraptions) how fast do you usually see them take hold and start growing? It seems like for me they take a month or so. When I had rooted in water I could see when they sprouted roots but even after that point and putting them in soil, they seem like they struggle to get going. Now that i've put them straight into soil I don't know at what point they start to root, but as of today they are just hanging, no new growth yet. I think about 4 weeks in. Normal for you experienced guys? Any suggestions for helping them along?
Oh, I try to keep the light (CFL) on them subdued, and not let them get too cold.

Well for most people I'd say the average length of time for a clone to establish roots and be ready to go is about 2 weeks. Sometimes they'll root a little quicker (I think 8 days was the quickest I've seen) and sometimes they can take a little more then 2 weeks (3 weeks is the longest I've seen. I myself use what's called rapid rooters which is a sponge like material made from organic materials. They're formed into cube shapes and supposedly are innoculated with micro organisms to help promote root growth. Yet I've never seen anything rapid about them. I get the same results with them as I do with peat pellets or just putting them in a cup of water until they root.

There are some cloning devices that people claim to be slightly faster but I've never used any so I can't confirm that. The only method I've heard of that claims to speed things up without buying a special device goes like this. Supposedly if you change the mother plant's diet from a veg diet (high in nitrogen, low in phospherous and potassium) to that of a flowering diet (low in nitrogen, high in phospherous and moderate in potassium) for about a week before you take cuttings, the drop in nitrogen and rise in phospherous will accelerate rooting. I tried this method once and didn't notice any measurable difference though.

The best thing you can do is give them a good environment which means decent but not intense light, high humidity (but from using a humidity dome not by raising the room humidity), good temps (I find 78 to 80 degrees F to be best for me) and that's about it. You could also try going 24/0 with the lights for clones. I usually go 18/6 because I typically have other plants vegging. If I don't then I go 24/0 until they root. I don't use 24/0 when I have other plants going because I find it to not be that beneficial but it does noticeably increase my electric bill. For clones though I figure a continuous light cycle means faster growth and therefore roots showing quicker.

I prefer the rapid rooters or peat pellets because with those you generally wait to see the roots show before you put them in soil. Others use that direct to soil method and seem to have good results but not knowing when they've rooted would drive me nuts.

Well that's all I can think of to contribute at the moment, I hope there's something in there that helps.

 

[HempKat]

thanks very much hempcat that was exactly why i joined IC, the experienced growers making every newbie feel like they can pick their brains and get the knowledge only years of growing gives...cheers i guess im going all the way to the end with boost.



thanks for yr reply gold but am i not right in thinking that foliar spray is the last thing you should do when your plants are full of bud. is that not how bud mold and powdery mildew start???

You're right but there are exceptions. Mainly you can get away with foliar feeding in flower without mold or bud rot if you have good ventilation and air circulation. Most avoid it though because they don't want to take any chances. On the other hand there are products out there meant for foliar use all thru flower. A guy I know in Florida uses a product called Top Max I believe and he reports great results and it's a foliar applied nutrient. In his case though, because of the way his environment is naturally in Florida, he has an excellent ventilation/circulation system in his grow room.

 

[ericcalif]

Well for most people I'd say the average length of time for a clone to establish roots and be ready to go is about 2 weeks. Sometimes they'll root a little quicker (I think 8 days was the quickest I've seen) and sometimes they can take a little more then 2 weeks (3 weeks is the longest I've seen.

Thanks for your input... That's along the lines of what I was wondering about. My clones (i don't know exactly the date I took them) are over 3 weeks and while I'm sure they have some roots, they aren't yet established and growing. I do what you do with light cycles as well. While I'm not complaining because what I'm doing does work, it just seems like it's not quite right, they struggle and take awhile.
I hadn't heard of switching nutes before taking cuttings though, I might try that just to see. Do you think the humidity dome thing makes much difference? I haven't seen a place to get one or thought about how to make something. I just mist them several times a day and let them hang out in the house where the temps are moderate. Could that one thing be causing my attempts to take much longer?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Cloning can be voodoo.
Sometimes you can do everything by the book, sterilizing everything, use gels powders and soaks, and do a rain dance, and they still may not take.
Other times you can cut a branch with scissors, stick in a cup of dirt, and it is thriving rooted a week later.


I have always used pucks or rooters or cups of coco, but last year I made my own little bubble cloner. Very ghetto DIY.
It is just a tub with an airstone in it. I use little pieces of hose split up the side for my inserts. The roots will take if the stems are actually in the solution or just above it getting splashed on by bubbles bursting.

Thing about putting a clone in a bubbler, or a cup of water for that matter, it is very rare you will see it wilt and not take. They may wilt on you in other mediums, but water, bubble, and aero cloners you usually will see all that are put in make it. It may take a bit longer sometimes, but not always. It is still voodoo remember....

 

[gabjaz]

Just a tip from an old fart...
try not to be too hasty in getting your buds in the jar. More pot has been ruined by it being shoved in a jar too green.
When the branches on the drying buds "snap" when you bend them, they are ready to cut off and put in the jar. Not until. To early can cause fermentation that will either lead to mold, or cause a nasty taste and smell that will not leave, short of a water cure.

When the buds are ready for the jar, the usually seem way too dry. Internal moisture will freshen them back up by the next day.

Hoosier,

First of all I want to tell you how easy it was making hash using your method, and last night when I smoked a little all I can say is ummmmmmm, ummmmmm, ummmmmm! Thanks for sharing...

About curing... You say the biggest mistake is jarring too soon. You might have read about my 1st canning. How I thought I had waited too long and they were way too dry. Even after 24 hrs they still felt way too dry, but gradually, they have rehydrated. So all in all I think that batch is going to be okay... In the mean time I jarred my second plant after only 4 days of drying and I'm using this little callibrater III that measures the RH. What is your opinion on this? The product looks really good...

I still have one more batch hanging to dry. It has a lot more leaf matter on it (I got lazy). I was planning on putting this batch in jars early and using the RH gizzmo...

Thank You, Gabs

....off to make some more hash this morning...

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Glad the hash thing is working out for you.
I have no idea about hydrometers or the like. I always just trim em up well, hang em up till I can hear a snap when I bend a stalk, and pull them off and into a jar.
One thing...you can put buds in too early and end up with bad taste and smell...but you will never experience that if they are too dry going in the jar.

 

[ericcalif]

Cloning can be voodoo.
Sometimes you can do everything by the book, sterilizing everything, use gels powders and soaks, and do a rain dance, and they still may not take.
Other times you can cut a branch with scissors, stick in a cup of dirt, and it is thriving rooted a week later.



Thing about putting a clone in a bubbler, or a cup of water for that matter, it is very rare you will see it wilt and not take. They may wilt on you in other mediums, but water, bubble, and aero cloners you usually will see all that are put in make it. It may take a bit longer sometimes, but not always. It is still voodoo remember....

Hey HD, thanks for your input. I like your bubbler, i've seen similar around in the posts. Do you find it faster than your pucks or rooters? I've done the straight water thing with success. This last time was the first i tried straight to soil. They seemed to show a little less stress, but still not much (or any) faster. Voodoo is a good word. I think I've been lucky in that I think the strains i've worked with are maybe a bit easier to root than others.

 

[Gold123]

Hey HD, thanks for your input. I like your bubbler, i've seen similar around in the posts. Do you find it faster than your pucks or rooters? I've done the straight water thing with success. This last time was the first i tried straight to soil. They seemed to show a little less stress, but still not much (or any) faster. Voodoo is a good word. I think I've been lucky in that I think the strains i've worked with are maybe a bit easier to root than others.

To speed up rooting put a heating pad under them. No dome, use water bottles with the bottoms cut off

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I am certain rooting is strain dependent, and probably a phenotypical expression as well, as I have had one plant root much better than it's sibling.
Some will use rooting ease as a selection criteria, and will cull plants that don't clone well or fast.

Speed of rooting....who knows. Like I said it's voodoo ("Cloning Voodoo" is a copyright protected term coined by Freezerboy!)

Only thing that can give you an advantage if you have one cut and can't afford for it to wilt off on you, it to use a water method of some sort. It almost guarantees the clone will stay intact until rooting. It seems to take maybe twice as long in some instances, but it is pretty dependable and you will rarely see one not make it in water.
Only thing with water is bacteria. It will grow fast at rooting temps, so you need to keep your water changed out. I highly recommend a product called Hydroguard (it is actually called Aqua-Shield now by Botanicare). It will keep you water from souring as fast.
Rooting hormones are supposed to be of benefit, and you can use gel in a water situation, but you want to dip the clone and let it set for about 5 minutes and let the gel set, and the stem to uptake a bit of it before putting it in water.
You can also use Super Thrive as a root enhancer/clone solution at 1 drop per gallon. NO MORE. It has the essential hormones like rooting gel, but with added B1. Very concentrated stuff and has killed a few new grows by clumbsy people. Do be careful with such stuff. And don't think more is better...1 drop per gallon.

Make a small sacrifice and throw some salt over your left shoulder....

 

[ericcalif]

Make a small sacrifice and throw some salt over your left shoulder....

Oh, so THATs your secret...

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I left out one very important procedure, but you will have to get that from Hempkat.

 

[HempKat]

Thanks for your input... That's along the lines of what I was wondering about. My clones (i don't know exactly the date I took them) are over 3 weeks and while I'm sure they have some roots, they aren't yet established and growing. I do what you do with light cycles as well. While I'm not complaining because what I'm doing does work, it just seems like it's not quite right, they struggle and take awhile.
I hadn't heard of switching nutes before taking cuttings though, I might try that just to see. Do you think the humidity dome thing makes much difference? I haven't seen a place to get one or thought about how to make something. I just mist them several times a day and let them hang out in the house where the temps are moderate. Could that one thing be causing my attempts to take much longer?

Well usually when you buy a cloning tray it comes with a humidity dome which is just a clear plastic lid that fits over the tray and allows enough room for the clones.

When I got started cloning I was introduced to the practice of using water bottles (pint to liter size) cut in half (to allow you to put the clone in) and then put back together. So the top half of the water bottle is the humidity dome. I've stuck with this method because it also isolates each clone which can be good if you're given clones with pest or other problems.

Clones like things in the upper 70's to low 80's or at least that's how it seems to me. The average home is kept at around 70 - 72 degrees F. So I'd say the temps are probably what's slowing you down and if you got a humidity dome you wouldn't need to mist everyday let alone several times a day.

 

[HempKat]

I left out one very important procedure, but you will have to get that from Hempkat.

Geeze, alright, throw the salt over the left shoulder, but only after doing a jig first.

 

[ericcalif]

When I got started cloning I was introduced to the practice of using water bottles (pint to liter size) cut in half (to allow you to put the clone in) and then put back together. So the top half of the water bottle is the humidity dome. I've stuck with this method because it also isolates each clone which can be good if you're given clones with pest or other problems.

I never heard of using a soda bottle for clones that way. I've been using beer cups, and a soda bottle wouldn't fit over one. But I like that idea, use the bottom of the bottle for soil and slip the top over it. Brilliant! Imma try that next time fo sho.

And the salt thing...