Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[Strainhunter]

You also have to keep in mind there are ALOT of people on this thread that make a partial living or fully rely on some aspect of the mj trade as an income. You also need to keep in mind the average smoker has never even heard of ICM.

This site is made up of seriously dedicated cannabis enthusiasts and cultivators, we arent your average joe shmoe who buys a 1/8 of green from some dood they know from around the way.

So to think that many of these growers or dealers would be in favor of a legal market that could possibly be their financial demise is at the very least naive and at the most, disingenious.

I could claim exactly the opposite:

Legalizing MJ on a broad level would bring a slew of new businesses to every one and new ones on top and not like you are claiming quote: "be their financial demise is at the very least naive and at the most, disingenious"
(btw it is "disingenuous")

Look @ the whole tail of follow up business right now, not even the growing itself:
Seedstores mostly operated not in the US (which the established ones have made millions!), Hydro stores, 1,000's of specialized Lawyers, etc.

 

[Hydrosun]

1,000's of specialized Lawyers, etc.

Are you trying to get me to switch back to no?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I could claim exactly the opposite:

Legalizing MJ on a broad level would bring a slew of new businesses to every one and new ones on top and not like you are claiming quote: "be their financial demise is at the very least naive and at the most, disingenious"
(btw it is "disingenuous")

Look @ the whole tail of follow up business right now, not even the growing itself:
Seedstores mostly operated not in the US (which the established ones have made millions!), Hydro stores, 1,000's of specialized Lawyers, etc.

Well you could claim the opposite, but what ive been seeing and hearing from anti-19 folk is that THEIR business will be ruined by the likes of Lee other big money growers. I agree with you completely that the legalization of mj will open a wide range of new markets in the marijuana trade.

....and really are you going to squabble over spelling? Im far more concerned with other matters to worry aboust sich a tinee noosance

 

[Strainhunter]

.....

....and really are you going to squabble over spelling? Im far more concerned with other matters to worry aboust sich a tinee noosance

No.

I tried to be funny and short about it.

 

[Strainhunter]

Are you trying to get me to switch back to no?

LOL you might have to if it doesn't pass.

 

[Batboy]

A plea to California voters

A plea to California voters

In just a couple of days you will all (hopefully) go to the polls to vote on the first legislative measure in the United States that will serve to truly legalize the cultivation, possession and use of marijuana. My purpose here is not to start yet another debate; there are plenty of other threads on ICM that debate the bill and its many nuances, interpretations and effects ad naseum. What I would like to do is to talk directly to the CA voters about the position that they are in.

There are few out there that can argue with a straight face that Prop 19 is perfect legislation. It isn’t and we all know it. Prohibitionists certainly aren’t happy; med users question the impact; growers fear financial ramifications; dispensaries can’t yet predict the impact; small time growers think 5x5 is too small; small time users think 1oz. is too small. . . the list goes on. The problem is that this is the bill that you are presented with. So do you vote it down for not being everything that you want or can you take a less myopic view and see that this is just the first step?

Make no mistake, the majority of the U.S. population has had the War on Drugs and Just Say No force fed to them for decades, and they believe it. Comparisons of mj to alcohol, tobacco and caffeine fall on deaf ears; how can those normal, legal, everyday items possibly relate to that most dangerous of gateway substances: weed!? The world is watching what CA will do with Prop 19, because it will signify the direction that the country is taking with respect to mj and mmj. A rejection of Prop 19 will be a monumental setback to the legalization movement and will serve to bolster and strengthen the opposition’s numbers and resolve. The opposition does not care why you are voting no. They don’t care that you are financially better off with it illegal; they don’t care that you are pro-mj, but expect to see a better bill in 2012. All they will see is victory against those tree-hugging hippies set out to destroy the world. They will argue that the Prop 19 rejection is a validation of the prohibitionist agenda and they will use it to fight against every piece of legislation in every jurisdiction.

I implore you mj-using CA voters that intend to vote ‘no’ to think about the long-lasting effects of your vote. You may feel that things are better off the way they are now, but right now dispensaries are being raided; right now your mmj system is being used and abused and exposed for the sham that it is; right now those that choose not to see a quack doctor for a rec on a fake illness are still being arrested and, while maybe not locked up, they are dealing with the very real and very harmful ramifications of having to pay into the legal system and deal with a criminal record, probation, etc. This stuff will follow them around for years.

I implore the CA voters that intend to vote ‘no’ to consider who they are siding with. Recently an ICM member started a post about his intention to become a police officer; the backlash has been intense and many have picked up their pitchforks for the purpose of driving this person from our community with cries of “pig” and stories of corrupt, thieving and power-hungry cops. A ‘no’ vote puts you in bed with the same members of law enforcement that disgust you so intensely (not to mention every other industry that benefits from mj being illegal and people arrested and put into the system). Irrespective of the bill’s shortcomings, wouldn’t you rather side with the movement, align yourselves against those that wish to profit from taking away others’ property and freedom?

You must be smoking the best of the best if you really think that you will have another shot at this anytime soon. If Prop 19 goes down, momentum will have been lost and I guarantee that you will not get another vote in 2012 – the prohibitionists will have been made too strong.

I want to leave you with a final thought – there are prohibitionists out there, there are barroom lawyers, wolves in sheep’s clothing, commercial growers, etc. who read doom and gloom into Prop 19 and effectively use scare tactics to make even the mj community think that it is bad bad bad. While it certainly raises as many questions as it answers, you have to see beyond the words to the intent (something that our courts are permitted to do). It is intentionally ambiguous in order to set standards that can be picked up and modified by your local governments; but the minimum rights to use, possess and grow are there! This is not intended to place restrictions on the 215 mmj community and attempts to do so will be thwarted, either by the population, legislature or court system. Instead of using every ridiculous what-if scenario as a reason to vote it down (I love the ones where people argue that this is really just a backdoor way to make mj AND mmj illegal – give me a break), please consider the bigger picture.

Consider that the rest of the country is watching and following your every move. If this gets voted down, NO ONE will care that the majority really wanted it but in a better legislative package. All anyone will see is a validation of the prohibitionist attitude and we will all have to live with that for decades to come. Please help us tip that first domino that could one day result in complete state and federal legalization. For the good of the movement, for the good of CA and our country, please vote YES on Nov. 2.

 

[vta]

I'll be making dozens of call Monday and Tuesday to make sure my friends turn out and check yes. I want this to pass for what it will do world wide, even if I don't like the specific language.

Nice!

 

[Strainhunter]

Presuming that most Californians who voted in this thread (hopefully) actually know what Prop 19 is about hence likely are familiar with the details and the language used I wanted to point out the obvious: The poll hovering around 50/50.

The out of state voters overwhelmingly voted "yes" 422/85 @ this time.

Could the last be because those out of state voters maybe didn't educate themselves as much in to detail and/or don't feel like they need to protect their interests!?

Just wondering.

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

To play the other side of that coin, I think out-of-state voters who are still facing very real risks of incarceration see a more drastic difference here. Those of us lucky enough to (or in my case, who moved across the country in order to) live in MMJ states have something of a security blanket in our current arrangement, and may not see the drastic difference.

I think where the out-of-state voters come in is in realizing that this is the beginning of a tidal wave - once someone sets the precedent by forcing the issue, a domino effect is likely to ensue [if not in actuality, then in the minds of many many hopeful growers and tokers who would really love to not have to watch their backs anymore]. So, for my brother in NJ who is on probation for a joint, any example to the contrary is a ray of hope.

On the one hand, I hate to put the burden for all of us nationwide on the Cali folks, especially because, to some extent, we may be asking them to undercut themselves for everyone's benefit. On the other hand, I can see this going a lot like medical marijuana did: at first it didn't really benefit everyone--only cancer, HIV, cachexia, etc. patients. But after that was on the books, it was just a small step to add the 'chronic pain' qualifier--now chronic pain accounts for 91% of all Colorado patients.

I think the same thing can happen here - sure, at first you won't be able to smoke in public, etc. But it's much easier to lay the foundation on agreeable terms and then push the boundaries than it is to fight for a foundation the establishment finds disagreeable.

If we're thinking that we're gonna educate politicians and authorities on the harmlessness of ganja, on the remarkable economic boon offered by industrial hemp, and all the other things we know in our hearts (and data!) to be both true and entirely wonderful about this plant--and that this education is just going to somehow show them the light, I think we're taking too simplistic a view of the thought process these politicians are facing. They have a lot of contrasting pressures - from interest groups, to donors, to constituents, to the chain of command within the government edifice. At the end of the day, truth is not their ultimate qualifier--balancing these interests to win the next election is. So if we want them to play ball, we have to give them a package that isn't going to be a pain in the ass to work with, or they'll pass on the opportunity 100% of the time.

 

[Hydrosun]

I bet every out of stater knows a few friends and family of voting age in CA.

Get those phones working and get the vote out for Tuesday!

 

[Chronic Future]

...Win or Loose on Prop 19.....the fact of the matter is that....at least it has got into the GLOBAL CONSCIOUSNESS....that it may be possible to get cannabis legal....even if it is taxed and regulated, like most everything else.....

your right gypsy this thing is way bigger than california if it passes it's going to change the whole world thats why everyone from out out state is all for it and everywhere else is all for it they know the waves of change will head there way just like 215. The only people in california who are aginst it think they will lose money. Peace

 

[dagnabit]

I bet every out of stater knows a few friends and family of voting age in CA.

Get those phones working and get the vote out for Tuesday!

i know a few mormons... think it might help to ring 'em up?

 

[raphenilweed]

To be honest A LOT of northern california growers are not for 19. Why? Economics most importantly. I have heard clubs in so cal are buying pounds at 1500 bucks! That is less than 100 bucks an ounce! I don't go in clubs so I wonder if they are charging the same? Anyway at 1500 bucks a pound the Emerald Triangle's little "haha the economy isn't affecting me that bad because of my super inflated underground pricing" - bubble is about to burst. It could mean drastic devaluation to our property prices and all that wood once used for sweet cabinet setups and garage grows will now be boarding up windows.

The problem with the above I have is that most of these growers up here didn't pay to much attention while getting their college diplomas because they were out in the hills growing, have since forgotten to read and are too damn lazy to protect their future. Prop 19 is very gray-law oriented. It doesn't define much; just who can posses it, who can't and some penalties if you break the basic rules. Establishing a flourishing legal economy could really help out the remote Emerald Triangle but that is not for us anti-establishment type. However Prop 19 will still keep the Emerald Triangle in a quasi black market. The bill does not outline growing other than in a private residence. What would really define the market into a more legal status is Tom Ammiano's Assembly Bill 390. It is prop 19 with more detail on which bureaucracy is in charge (ABC), sets fees and taxes and penalties. Here is the link to the full text http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0351-0400/ab_390_cfa_20100111_194038_asm_comm.html

TO me prop 19 sounds a bit better deal for the Emerald Triangle than AB 390.

 

[Hydrosun]

i know a few mormons... think it might help to ring 'em up?

Yes I do, most mormons I know are not as strict as SLC would like. Like I mentioned earlier the mormons spent MILLIONS defeating gay marriage (a CA prop). They haven't spend a DIME against 19. So all you good little later day saints can feel fine voting yes. Your church isn't against it and you are free to refrain from using

Caffeine used to be bad for mormons, now I think it is OK because the church owns stake in coke or pepsi (I'm a stoner so check my sources ). Maybe soon momons will have their own strain, Magic Underwear Kush.

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

<-- first in line for a M.U. Kush cut!!

 

[Chronic Future]

anyone else notice they media are only running no on 19 ads its a conspiracy folks Peace.

 

[Strainhunter]

.......

....... "haha the economy isn't affecting me that bad because of my super inflated underground pricing" - bubble is about to burst. It could mean drastic devaluation to our property prices and all that wood once used for sweet cabinet setups and garage grows will now be boarding up windows.

.......

Part of my family had acreage up in the triangle, due to family internal circumstances I inherited a bit over 10 acres almost 15 years ago.
From a growers perspective my 10+ acres are considered prime ground and in 2006 I got a cash offer over 360K for it.

Needless to say I did not sell since the land (or what's left of it hence my 10+ acres) since that's something against my code of ethics due to the land being inherited family land.

That same land I was offered 360K for a few years back now has an actual market value of around 50K and it has been hovering around that for the past 18 months.

Why am I telling all this?

Because personally I doubt property values are going to go any lower than they are now Prop 19 or not.

 

[dagnabit]

anyone else notice they media are only running no on 19 ads its a conspiracy folks Peace.

no conspiracy...

they just have more money.

 

[Chronic Future]

no conspiracy...

they just have more money.

they do ? I mean I know the yes side has some dollars but still no yes on 19 ads man thats the media trying to be politically correct .

 

[Hammerhead]

they have more then the yes campaign has.