Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Regardless of what I think is right, I would think we could agree that a grower is still a grower.

I'm sick of the division of good people.

Well, I agree with you that a grower is grower, up until the point that grower decides to oppose the legalization of marijuana.

It's one thing to produce a commodity for a demanding market, its an entirely different thing to promote its illegality for obscene profits and untaxable income. That is when (in my opinion) you fall into the scumbag territory and no longer recieve my support, concern or respect.

I on the other hand would like to be able to become a member of society that needs not fear for my or my families safety based on an industry that I have come to know extremely well and love. Money has never really been a concern of mine because I was brought up with next to nothing and was raised from a house of love, not a house of money.

My guidance councelor once told me "If you can find a way to make a living doing what you love, then you will never work a day in your life". Unfortunatly, loving your family and being a good father doesn't provide a paycheck and there are few things I love outside of cannabis that I have much skill in (that provide a liveable income for my family).

To be able to earn a completely legitimate income based on helping others through this wonderul plant has always been a dream that I never believed would come true and now that I have seen many of my friends and acquaintances come out in opposition of this proposed legalization, it has really opened my eyes to why some people are doing what they do, and its not for the love of the people, its the love of the money.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Thanks vta for posting all this useful and entertaining info....

Grow On!

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Well, I agree with you that a grower is grower, up until the point that grower decides to oppose the legalization of marijuana.

Good.

I'm one of those idealists that should be ruled out of your consideration.

My question has been "Why this one?" and what is wrong with such progress progressing into a better bill?

If this is all you want then I get it... in that case I only warn you that this is probably IT.... glad you got what you wanted.

However, I expected a little bit more out of all of us.

This is all I have to say.

 

[mxrider4]

you people on here are fucking pathetic losers. seriously if you only had a clue what it was like to build something or create jobs for others you might appreciate some things. jerry Brown cant run a real campaign, only a smear campaign for you dumbfucks . fuck prop 19 and j. brown.

and whitman does suck but do you have any clue how much more brown sucks

 

[vta]

Prop. 19 effects on law enforcement debated

By Adam Foxman
Ventura County Star

Each year, fields of marijuana plants sprout in the Los Padres National Forest, and local narcotics officers mount missions to seize and destroy the illegal drug gardens.

With help from federal and state law enforcement personnel, local authorities in recent years have made record numbers of arrests and seized record amounts of pot. But with each planting season, the growers with suspected ties to Mexican drug cartels return, sometimes in the same spots that had been razed earlier by law enforcement.

With Proposition 19 on Tuesday’s ballot, the debate over marijuana legalization has sometimes centered on the resources police spend combating marijuana-related crimes. Proponents say legalization would undercut the black market and allow police to use more of their scarce resources fighting violent crimes. Opponents — including many law enforcement officials — argue if Proposition 19 is passed marijuana use will increase and bolster illegal sales, causing more crime police would have to deal with.

Local authorities say it’s difficult to know exactly how much pot is being grown illegally in local mountains, but they expect black market farms to persist if the proposition passes.

Eradicating marijuana fields from the Los Padres accounts for a fraction of the cost of enforcing current pot laws, but in Ventura County, they’re among law enforcement’s most high-profile efforts involving the drug.

The Ventura County Sheriff’s Department’s Narcotics Unit spends about 7 percent of its time annually on eradication efforts in the Los Padres National Forest, said the unit’s captain, Derek West.

Through mid-September, the unit’s efforts cost about the same as employing two experienced deputies for a year, with the federal government footing more than 40 percent of that bill.

Including overtime, a conservative estimate puts the price tag for the first 9 1/2 months of 2010 at about $87,600 in pay to deputies working those operations. The cost of using the helicopter in the operations was about $80,000, West said.

In 2010, Ventura County got $70,000 from the federal government specifically for such operations, half from the Drug Enforcement Administration and half from the U.S. Forest Service, West said. Personnel from the Forest Service, DEA, local law enforcement agencies and the state Department of Fish and Game assist with the efforts.

The Sheriff’s Department’s marijuana eradication work since 2008 averaged 1,619 hours annually, West said.

The department’s investment in combating pot grows in the national forest is very small compared to the amount the state spends on enforcing current marijuana laws. One study by the Rand Drug Policy Research Center estimated that cost at under $300 million.

Proposition 19 would make it legal for any Californian over the age of 21 to possess up to one ounce of marijuana and cultivate up to 25 square feet of marijuana plants. It would also allow individual municipalities to adopt regulations about retail sales of the drug and levy taxes.

Ventura County District Attorney Greg Totten said he believes if the measure passes, the amount of marijuana grown illegally in local mountains and the influence of cartels would either remain stable or increase, because the criminal organizations have the supply to feed growing demand for the drug.

He said he would expect federal anti-pot efforts to increase, since the proposition would run counter to federal law. While it’s difficult to predict exactly how the proposition would affect local eradication efforts, he wouldn’t expect them to go away.

“I think law enforcement would still be duty bound to go after those (illegal mountainside grows), but I think you would see the federal government taking an even heavier hand than they do now,” Totten said.

Former Los Angeles Deputy Police Chief Stephen Downing, one of the retired police officials who support Proposition 19, said the argument increased demand for marijuana would bolster the black market if the measure passes is “ridiculous.” Downing argues the war on drugs has failed, and a legal pot market would undercut violent drug cartels’ sales of the drug and decrease their influence, as the end of prohibition did to bootleggers.

“If something is legal, the black market is going to go under,” Downing said.


Read more: http://www.vcstar.com/news/2010/oct/28/prop-19-effects-on-law-enforcement-debated/#ixzz13iYdvp3P
- vcstar.com

 

[kmk420kali]

I would vote for Paris Hilton before I would consider this bitch--

 

[vta]

Thanks vta for posting all this useful and entertaining info....

Grow On!

Thanks Gypsy for giving us this place!

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Good.

I'm one of those idealists that should be ruled out of your consideration.

My question has been "Why this one?" and what is wrong with such progress progressing into a better bill?

If this is all you want then I get it... in that case I only warn you that this is probably IT.... glad you got what you wanted.

However, I expected a little bit more out of all of us.

This is all I have to say.

Believe me mustard, there is not much in 19 that I agree with, but its a step in the right direction. Ive supported every iniative Jack Herer has put forth, and if I had millions of dollars to throw at a legalization effort, I would have done it. The fact of the matter is that this is the closest we have come to "legalization".

I have said it a number of times but I will say it again: The language of Prop.19 is not nearly as paramount as the name that has been coined to 19, and that is the big L word....LEGALIZATION. Many say its not truely legalization and maybe they are right. However, that is subjective and more entitled to opinion then anything. But, the rest of the country is looking at only one thing in this prop and its not 5x5's or 1oz limits or commercial liscensing fees, they are looking at that big ol' L word. Thats what the country and world will see come nov.3 CALIFORNIA MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION: PASS or FAIL and as none of us truly know what that will bring, I feel that its fail would have far worst consequences even if r.j. reyonlds, wal-mart, george soros and monsanto teamed up for a triple gangbang on the mj market.

Id rather be poor and free, then rich and paranoid....

 

[kmk420kali]

Good.

I'm one of those idealists that should be ruled out of your consideration.

My question has been "Why this one?" and what is wrong with such progress progressing into a better bill?

If this is all you want then I get it... in that case I only warn you that this is probably IT.... glad you got what you wanted.

However, I expected a little bit more out of all of us.

This is all I have to say.

Bro..we have always been cool...but I have to say, if you don't get it by now, you won't get it--
I understand the Devil's Advocate stance...but it has all been said, and proven wrong--
The No side has paranoia and fear on it's side--
The Yes side has proven through Legal Facts and valid links, that those fears are unfounded--
Nov 2nd is almost here...

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

My Mum.....always used to say 'Give them an inch.....and they will take a yard'.....

....Prop 19 is THE INCH.....we have been waiting for......for many years,.....and if it is passed, then it is up to us to take THE YARD!!

 

[Strainhunter]

Looking @ the poll in this thread and considering we are on a pro Ganja weed-site all those who support Prop 19 and are talking like it already is set in stone should keep in mind that even though we are on a PRO Ganja site the poll is still only @ around 50/50 pro/contra Prop 19.


My thought on the above is:

If we had a poll like the above on a more real world hence neutral level of voters it probably/likely would have a tendency rather against Prop 19 than for it.

I guess we all will see in a few days.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

...Win or Loose on Prop 19.....the fact of the matter is that....at least it has got into the GLOBAL CONSCIOUSNESS....that it may be possible to get cannabis legal....even if it is taxed and regulated, like most everything else.....

 

[Strainhunter]

...Win or Loose on Prop 19.....the fact of the matter is that....at least it has got into the GLOBAL CONSCIOUSNESS....that it may be possible to get cannabis legal....even if it is taxed and regulated, like most everything else.....

We ALL hope what ever happens is going to be for the better.

All this prohibition BS has gotten out of hand, I think every one will agree on that.

Personally I just think there are a lot of interested parties (whether commercially, lobby or law) that may just provide overwhelming forces to make things not happen for the better no matter how November 2nd turns out.
And I include the Federal Government in that. They are always a wild card in these kind of things.

 

[snoopytime]

Aside from other reasons, I am voting Yes on the reason of boredom and wanting to see something cool happen. Every voting season since I was born has been boring, all there is is names of liars to vote on. This time I get to vote on something that had to be categroized as 'sneaking around' since I was 12 . . around the time that Van Halen 1 came out. It will be neat if it gets to no longer be a sneaking around thing.

 

[dagnabit]

Good.

I'm one of those idealists that should be ruled out of your consideration.

My question has been "Why this one?" and what is wrong with such progress progressing into a better bill?

If this is all you want then I get it... in that case I only warn you that this is probably IT.... glad you got what you wanted.

why?

However, I expected a little bit more out of all of us.

This is all I have to say.

for the third time?

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

As with any charged political issue, both sides have their valid points here... but being originally from NJ, having seen lives RUINED over simple possession, I feel this is too big an opportunity for personal liberties to remain idealistic on the details. In other words, I recognize that this is a compromise with the powers that be, but if on there side, they'll stop putting people in prison, shooting them, etc., I'm willing to compromise.

Yeah, we kind of get shafted, but they've got the guns, they call the shots (for now).

If 19 passes, it will begin a chain reaction. The presidents of 3 Latin American countries (Argentina, Columbia, and Mexico) have already said that if 19 passes, they will immediately begin a review of their countries' outdated marijuana laws. With California proving the model, other US states - particularly those that already permit MMJ - will follow suit. This is BIG - this can literally change the entire economic and political architecture of this hemisphere - and to prevent that because it's not how I'd ideally like to see it seems foolhardy and perhaps a bit self-centered - especially because, in truth, they'll never write the law how I'd ideally like to see it, because there aren't many stoners and growers in government

If you vote no on 19, how many years will pass before the bill you want to vote yes on is drafted and placed on the ballot? How many more people across the country will have been locked up by then? How many people on this forum right now?

 

[TruthOrLie]

As with any charged political issue, both sides have their valid points here... but being originally from NJ, having seen lives RUINED over simple possession, I feel this is too big an opportunity for personal liberties to remain idealistic on the details. In other words, I recognize that this is a compromise with the powers that be, but if on there side, they'll stop putting people in prison, shooting them, etc., I'm willing to compromise.

Yeah, we kind of get shafted, but they've got the guns, they call the shots (for now).

If 19 passes, it will begin a chain reaction. The presidents of 3 Latin American countries (Argentina, Columbia, and Mexico) have already said that if 19 passes, they will immediately begin a review of their countries' outdated marijuana laws. With California proving the model, other US states - particularly those that already permit MMJ - will follow suit. This is BIG - this can literally change the entire economic and political architecture of this hemisphere - and to prevent that because it's not how I'd ideally like to see it seems foolhardy and perhaps a bit self-centered - especially because, in truth, they'll never write the law how I'd ideally like to see it, because there aren't many stoners and growers in government

If you vote no on 19, how many years will pass before the bill you want to vote yes on is drafted and placed on the ballot? How many more people across the country will have been locked up by then? How many people on this forum right now?

wurd

 

[BrainSellz]

This time I get to vote on something that had to be categroized as 'sneaking around' since I was 12 . . around the time that Van Halen 1 came out. It will be neat if it gets to no longer be a sneaking around thing.

Is this why your names snoopy?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Looking @ the poll in this thread and considering we are on a pro Ganja weed-site all those who support Prop 19 and are talking like it already is set in stone should keep in mind that even though we are on a PRO Ganja site the poll is still only @ around 50/50 pro/contra Prop 19.

First of all its not near 50/50. Currently its 186-177 and then you have to add the 78 who voted "CA resident- Yes, but would rather be voting on a better bill". So that is 264-177 which puts that number closer to 60% which is about what I would expect the yes vote to come out to in the election.

You also have to keep in mind there are ALOT of people on this site that make a partial living or fully rely on some aspect of the mj trade as an income. Thus, the reason why you have the amount of anti-19 people that we do and the reason the No vote is so high from CA residents.

You also need to keep in mind the average smoker has never even heard of ICM. This site is made up of seriously dedicated cannabis enthusiasts and cultivators, we arent your average joe shmoe who buys a 1/8 of green from some dood they know from around the way.

So to think that many of these growers or dealers would be in favor of a legal market that could possibly be their financial demise is at the very least naive and at the most, disingenious.

 

[Hydrosun]

You also have to keep in mind there are ALOT of people on this site that make a partial living or fully rely on some aspect of the mj trade as an income. Thus, the reason why you have the amount of anti-19 people that we do and the reason the No vote is so high from CA residents.

This is certainly true, buy you yourself are proof that not all in the biz are No voters.

Also ICmag is populated with stoners and growers so it is likely we don't have the traditional NO crowd here (right wingers who want to dictate morality, or leftists who need me to "think about the children").

I really do hope every Californian goes out and votes yes on this. I'll be making dozens of call Monday and Tuesday to make sure my friends turn out and check yes. I want this to pass for what it will do world wide, even if I don't like the specific language.