Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[monsoon]

The game has always, and will always, be >on< as long as there's money to be made. It really doesn't matter what regulatory scheme is put in place...or...if somehow the law got rescinded. Legality is directly tied to profit. If there's profit to be made there will be a "Black Market". As long as the State supports $400 ounces and allows a weed to command such a price, folks will play along on the sidelines....happily. I sure don't know anyone buying weed from the dispensaries...yet everyone still has weed. Funny how that works.

People in the grey area survive, as always, on the size of their balls. Some folks don't care. They see those 1000+ plant warehouses get hit by the Fed or some other clowns...and then BAM...the next day they are back at it with MORE plants. The little guy (who can be considered a large op elsewhere) sits back, laughs, and realizes there's NO WAY they can track all of the grows, even just the legal ones, so the chances of a bust now are a zillion times less than when they were growing in the 90's. It's a basic free-for-all for those who have the 'nads to take it there. Nothing has changed on that front...and nothing will change on that front as long as cannabis remains a high dollar cash crop.

"and we just smiled and waved...sitting on that sack of seed" LOL

 

[budtang]

Sadly...as more folks moved here to make bank off the system (just like you talk of doing to Cali) the State was also taking notice and becoming far more familiar with how it was all working. Seeing millions of untracked dollars from drug sales flying by..

Are you kidding me? How dumb can you be?

Do you not see that there is now MORE money and weed sales that's not being taxed under your current system? A few people didn't pay taxes, and your solution to this problem is to restrict ANYONE from paying taxes?

You don't have a point monsoon. You don't start a post by saying, "My point is" and then follow it up with an explanation that makes no sense. You don't have a point. You never had a point.

as the decision had been made years earlier to cut out the home growers from the picture and avoid a repeat of the scenario that happened in the med realm.

You do realize that it accomplished absolutely nothing, right? In fact, that policy only made the problem far worse. You have a bigger problem now with people growing weed under the table under your current regulations. Thanks for wasting time attempting to justify something that is more of a failure than what you're criticizing. You're clearly not a very smart guy. Otherwise, you would see that your current regulations are causing more weed to be grown and sold under the table than ever.

You're not making any sense. There is no logic to addressing the problem with home growers not paying taxes by restricting them from paying taxes at all. I'm sorry, but you can go on all day desperately justifying it if you like. It doesn't change the fact that it's a failure that needs to change.

 

[budtang]

People in the grey area survive, as always, on the size of their balls. Some folks don't care. They see those 1000+ plant warehouses get hit by the Fed or some other clowns...and then BAM...the next day they are back at it with MORE plants. The little guy (who can be considered a large op elsewhere) sits back, laughs, and realizes there's NO WAY they can track all of the grows, even just the legal ones, so the chances of a bust now are a zillion times less than when they were growing in the 90's. It's a basic free-for-all for those who have the 'nads to take it there. Nothing has changed on that front...and nothing will change on that front as long as cannabis remains a high dollar cash crop.

Have you ever heard of this organization called the IRS? You keep saying,"The chances of getting busted are so low that you shouldn't waste time complaining." I'm not worried about getting busted by your local police, or even the DEA.

The problem is that I'm an adult who lives in the real world. Not the fantasy stoner land you live in. In the real world, adults have to pay taxes in order to acquire property and assets. You can't pay for property and obtain assets in cash, guy. If you do that eventually the IRS will catch on to you.

Taxes are the problem. Not getting busted.

 

[monsoon]

LOL. It's no surprise here that makes no sense to YOU because you haven't been here to experience ANY of it. You are relying on info from others about a system you've never been a part of...and only look in on and guess how it is from 1000's of miles away. the guys HERE know how full of shit you are....railing against LAWS set in stone that have NO bearing on you and nothing to do with you.

You are whining from a place where you can't grow VEGGIES....how can you know anything about any of it? It's comical as Hell.

The point is that you have no clue. End of story.

 

[budtang]

It's no secret that a lot of black market weed comes from supposedly "legal" small growers simply because there's been no way to track production in an effective manner. Of course they sell to dispensaries, but that's only part of the truth. It's been an easy cover for growers wherever they could exploit it. They've also been free to overcome problems w/ whatever chemistry they choose and to pump up production with a variety of things like paclo.

As you say, CO clamped down on that years ago, but medium sized independent med growers survive in CO to this day in some way that I don't pretend to understand. Hell, I met with one last fall when investigating opportunities, graced by their hospitality offered because of a mutual friend. They had over 1000 plants in a small warehouse grow, mostly Flo & Blue Dream, also one of the Chem lines. Nice people, very friendly encounter, but neither of us seem to want to pursue it. Happened to drive by a few weeks ago, noticed their vehicle outside, so they're clearly still in business.

From what I can gather, that's what a residential grower has to do in order to grow and sell to dispensaries. Growing with a Red Card is a viable option in Colorado for a grower.

 

[budtang]

LOL. It's no surprise here that makes no sense to YOU because you haven't been here to experience ANY of it. You are relying on info from others about a system you've never been a part of...and only look in on and guess how it is from 1000's of miles away. the guys HERE know how full of shit you are....railing against LAWS set in stone that have NO bearing on you and nothing to do with you.

You are whining from a place where you can't grow VEGGIES....how can you know anything about any of it? It's comical as Hell.

The point is that you have no clue. End of story.

The number of residential operations that are taxed in Colorado= 0

Why would I have to be there to see that ZERO residential grow operations are taxed? I don't have to be there to see that your system is an incompetent failure, endorsed and defended by incompetent people. You're not an expert because you load bowls within Colorado state lines, guy. lulz

 

[monsoon]

you have no clue, budtang. Please take the time to READ THE LAWS before you comment.

There are no legal sales here unless you are a licensed MMC or are licensed to sell in the retail.

What viable option are you referencing with a "Red Card"? Let's see how well you understand what you are talking about.... (We can wait while you call the attorney for info)

 

[monsoon]

So loading bowls in Michigan or wherever you are from where tomatoes are illegal makes you an expert? LOFL. How do tomatoes smoke, smart ass?

 

[budtang]

you have no clue, budtang. Please take the time to READ THE LAWS before you comment.

There are no legal sales here unless you are a licensed MMC or are licensed to sell in the retail.

Number of residential grow operations that are taxed = 0

How is that a solution to the problem the state has with tracking and taxing residential grow operations? Go ahead I'll wait.

What viable option are you referencing with a "Red Card"? Let's see how well you understand what you are talking about.... (We can wait while you call the attorney for info)

The one Jhhnnn just referenced, dumbass. Did you not see that example he just posted of a Red Card holder he knew who sells to dispensaries?

 

[budtang]

So loading bowls in Michigan or wherever you are from where tomatoes are illegal makes you an expert? LOFL. How do tomatoes smoke, smart ass?

You don't have to live in Colorado to know that residential grow operations aren't being taxed, monitored, and controlled by the state. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to repeat this until you get the point.

You get proven wrong and you just keep bitching and whining about me not being a Colorado resident. It's hilarious.

 

[monsoon]

Nobody said they were. In fact, I told you residential grows haven't been a part of the scene since 2010 and HB1284. We get your point...No one set the game UP FOR YOU and YOU ARE WHINING ABOUT IT INCESSANTLY.

The grow jhhnnn referenced is not a "Red Card" grow asswipe. It's an illegal grow...outside of either the rec laws or the med laws...which are different...and you'd know that IF YOU READ THEM. You haven't. Your ongoing/incorrect statements show it well.

You can repeat your bad info/uneducated views all day long and rant like a child that it isn't what you wanted...no one really cares. You aren't even here. Talk about a dumbass.

 

[budtang]

Nobody said they were.

Are you comprehending what is being discussed here at all? When you make stupid ass statements like that it makes think this entire discussion is beyond your intellectual capacity. We're talking about policies in Colorado that restrict residential grow operations. You're claiming these policies were put in place because the state was missing out on tax money from residential grow operations who failed to report their weed to the state in a taxed retail environment.

I'm pointing out that under these regulations you have in place there are now ZERO taxed residential operations. As opposed to there being THOUSANDS as there would be if residential operations were approved. Let's recap:

Monsoons policy= ZERO taxed residential operations

My policy= THOUSANDS of taxed residential operations

Which one is more logical? The choice is pretty fucking obvious and you don't need to be a goddamn Colorado resident to see it.

The grow jhhnnn referenced is not a "Red Card" grow asswipe. It's an illegal grow...outside of either the rec laws or the med laws.

I must've misunderstood him, then.

However, thank you for proving my point. You're saying your policies are designed to prevent untaxed residential grows. Yet, you reference an example of one. Thank you for providing evidence to back up my argument. Your laws in Colorado make no fucking sense and the example you just provided conclusively proves this.

 

[monsoon]

They aren't "my" policies. It is you who are hung up on the "untaxed residential" aspect. Either way...the 1000 plants IN A WAREHOUSE jhnnn referenced is not a "residential grow". Get it? House= residence. WAREHOUSE does not = residence.

I took it that it's an under the radar grow from the way he described it. Not licensed under 64 or 20. It just is... like many other illegal grows here ran by folks, unlike you, with balls....who aren't sitting around at their keyboard WHINING that the system wasn't tailor made for them WHEREVER they reside!

 

[budtang]

As you say, CO clamped down on that years ago, but medium sized independent med growers survive in CO to this day in some way that I don't pretend to understand. Hell, I met with one last fall when investigating opportunities, graced by their hospitality offered because of a mutual friend. They had over 1000 plants in a small warehouse grow, mostly Flo & Blue Dream, also one of the Chem lines. Nice people, very friendly encounter, but neither of us seem to want to pursue it. Happened to drive by a few weeks ago, noticed their vehicle outside, so they're clearly still in business.

See. He said they're "med growers." That means they're Red Card growers, monsoon. You can ask him when he gets here to clarify. I don't know why you're speaking for him and his personal experience, regardless. You just jumped in and said,"He is talking about an illegal grow." Were you there? This is a common trend for you to pretend to know what you're talking about. A warehouse could mean a structure on the guys residential property in a rural area. Either way, I know a guy with a Red Card who received it after only 5 months of living in Colorado. He's not selling to dispensaries, though.

Either way, your obsession on this tiny little aspect of the post just proves that you got your ass handed to you. You can't stop talking about the most irrelevant and insignificant technicality in my post. You refuse to address the fact that ZERO residential grow operations are being taxed by the state of Colorado and that this fact proves that Colorado's laws restricting residential grow operations have failed miserably and lack any logic to them, as a result.

Colorado system = 0 taxed residential grow operations

According to Monsoon, this policy exist because the state couldn't keep track of residential grows and tax them. So, the solution is to not tax any of them. lulz

Does this make sense to anyone outside of Colorado? Are we on fucking Planet Crazy, here? TIC, I guess. This is Colorado. lmao!

 

[budtang]

0 taxed residential operations = less money for schools

THOUSANDS of taxed residential operations = more money for schools

Residential growers aren't the only people benefiting from what I'm proposing, monsoon and Jhhnnn. This whole,"Stop whining because it's not catered to benefit you" argument you and Jhhnnn keep towing is FUCKING DUMB and IRRESPONSIBLE.

Grow the fuck up, guys. Schools are getting fucked out of money because of you idiots.

 

[Jhhnn]

Nobody said they were. In fact, I told you residential grows haven't been a part of the scene since 2010 and HB1284. We get your point...No one set the game UP FOR YOU and YOU ARE WHINING ABOUT IT INCESSANTLY.

The grow jhhnnn referenced is not a "Red Card" grow asswipe. It's an illegal grow...outside of either the rec laws or the med laws...which are different...and you'd know that IF YOU READ THEM. You haven't. Your ongoing/incorrect statements show it well.

You can repeat your bad info/uneducated views all day long and rant like a child that it isn't what you wanted...no one really cares. You aren't even here. Talk about a dumbass.

The people with the small warehouse grow I mentioned seem to be fully licensed. They def represent themselves to be. They sell to dispensaries under the 70/30 rule. They just don't operate a storefront. I honestly don't claim to fully understand the med side of it all.

At the commercial level, the whole thing is moving rapidly upscale & prices moving downscale. Competition is shaping up to be fierce at the grower level, anyway. In that environment, current pricing simply cannot hold, nor can margins.

I see lots of broken dreams for the unlucky, the inept, & people who don't have the reserves & capitalization to weather a storm.

As you say, small black market providers function on the size of their balls, their brains & the graces of Lady Luck. Chances of apprehension are now lower than ever. One always needs to consider the worst case scenario in any event. As a much younger man, I had little to lose & few responsibilities. I acted accordingly. I figured that I had the time to do time if it came to it. That's no longer true.

After no small amount of exploration, I've come to the conclusion that there's really no place for me on the money making side of it. It's either too big, too tricky, or both. OTOH, I have a nice little groove, growing my own, sharing it, sampling retail occasionally to get a feel for different varieties. Our personal supply is ample. We simply do not sell. Period.

All perfectly legal with no worries. Everybody should have it so good.

 

[budtang]

I see lots of broken dreams for the unlucky, the inept, & people who don't have the reserves & capitalization to weather a storm.

Yeah, but don't you only grow 6 plants? That's like a child with a lemonade stand projecting nationwide sales figures for the lemonade industry. lulz

I'm not trying to be insulting, but a guy with your experience isn't exactly in a position to make educated predictions like that. Any time I hear you making these predictions for the future I feel like I'm listening a Gypsy woman in a parlor rub a crystal ball. It's hard to take anything you say about the future of the cannabis industry seriously. Especially, when there are thousands of documented cases here on the forum of people successfully growing for a living out of their homes in medical states. These states aren't absent big commercial operations that your so convinced would put residential growers out of business, either.

Commercial and residential operations can exist side by side and there is documented evidence of this fact.

As you say, small black market providers function on the size of their balls, their brains & the graces of Lady Luck. Chances of apprehension are now lower than ever.

I got letters in the mail from the IRS after only TWO YEARS of growing for a living on the black market. You can get away with it...for a while. But, as they say, death and taxes are the only certainties in life. This is the BIG REASON I would rather be licensed. It's not about $$$$$ at all. It's about safety and security. It's about having access to the services that taxes provide. Mainly, law enforcement services that deter thieves and crooks.

I don't need your laws to make $$$$$. I need your laws to be safe while doing it. Not only do I have to worry about the IRS, but I have to worry about every thieving piece of shit in the world who will want to rob my ass when they find out that I have an illegal grow operation, and thousands of dollars in cash made from it, in my home. I can't call the police if these assholes try to rob me because I'm not a legal operation. Thieving pieces of shit will know that and that's the fucking point.

Your stupid ass laws put people's lives at risk. It's nice to know that your legal system is looking out for the millionaires with warehouses. It would be nice if they'd do the same for the lowly residential growers.

After no small amount of exploration, I've come to the conclusion that there's really no place for me on the money making side of it. It's either too big, too tricky, or both. OTOH, I have a nice little groove, growing my own, sharing it, sampling retail occasionally to get a feel for different varieties. Our personal supply is ample. We simply do not sell. Period.

All perfectly legal with no worries. Everybody should have it so good.

Good for you, but there are those of us with a lot more ambition, skill, knowledge, and understanding for cannabis horticulture than you. We're not satisfied with 6 plants. Anyone who believes residential operations wouldn't be successful in light of all this documented evidence that proves otherwise is simply displaying an abysmal ignorance of cannabis horticulture. Half of the seed breeders on this forum are running a successful business out of their home and competing against larger breeding operations successfully. They have been for the past 2 decades. I don't see Greenhouse Seeds, which sells 2.5 million seeds a year, putting DJ Short (150,000 seeds a year) out of business.

Do you know anything about the history of cannabis horticulture? Or, were you just going to base your analysis on the small sample size of incompetent growers that you've personally seen fail?

 

[budtang]

You can't even grow a full pack of seeds in Colorado. 6 plants at once. Save 4 seeds for later. lulz



Breeders should accommodate and provide the "Colorado 6 pack" in their inventory. lmao!

What would be the point of even saving seeds up in Colorado? With 6 plants at once you would never get around to growing most of them out in your lifetime. lulz

3 months per harvest equates to 24/seeds a year in Colorado. That's what you can realistically grow per year in Colorado. Rofl!

 

[Seaf0ur]

Are you comprehending what is being discussed here at all? When you make stupid ass statements like that it makes think this entire discussion is beyond your intellectual capacity.


Monsoons policy= ZERO taxed residential operations

My policy= THOUSANDS of taxed residential operations

GOOD THING YOU DONT SET POLICY.... NEW JOBS... BUT MAINLY FOR TAX MEN... ITS LIKE OBAMACARE! LMFAO

I must've misunderstood him, then.

YOU'VE MISUNDERSTOOD VERY MUCH

However, thank you for proving my point. You're saying your policies are designed to prevent untaxed residential grows. Yet, you reference an example of one. Thank you for providing evidence to back up my argument. Your laws in Colorado make no fucking sense and the example you just provided conclusively proves this.

ANOTHER INCORRECT STATEMENT

They aren't "my" policies. It is you who are hung up on the "untaxed residential" aspect. Either way...the 1000 plants IN A WAREHOUSE jhnnn referenced is not a "residential grow". Get it? House= residence. WAREHOUSE does not = residence.

DID YOU GET THAT THIS TIME? I'LL UNDERLINE IT.

I took it that it's an under the radar grow from the way he described it. Not licensed under 64 or 20. It just is... like many other illegal grows here ran by folks, unlike you, with balls....who aren't sitting around at their keyboard WHINING that the system wasn't tailor made for them WHEREVER they reside!

See. He said they're "med growers." That means they're Red Card growers, monsoon. You can ask him when he gets here to clarify. I don't know why you're speaking for him and his personal experience, regardless. You just jumped in and said,"He is talking about an illegal grow." Were you there? This is a common trend for you to pretend to know what you're talking about.

THIS PROVES HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW.

A warehouse could mean a structure on the guys residential property in a rural area.
Either way, I know a guy with a Red Card who received it after only 5 months of living in Colorado. He's not selling to dispensaries, though.

BECAUSE HE CANNOT

Does this make sense to anyone outside of Colorado? Are we on fucking Planet Crazy, here? TIC, I guess. This is Colorado. lmao!

You can't even grow a full pack of seeds in Colorado. 6 plants at once. Save 4 seeds for later. lulz



Breeders should accommodate and provide the "Colorado 6 pack" in their inventory. lmao!

What would be the point of even saving seeds up in Colorado? With 6 plants at once you would never get around to growing most of them out in your lifetime. lulz

3 months per harvest equates to 24/seeds a year in Colorado. That's what you can realistically grow per year in Colorado. Rofl!

AND YOU CANNOT EVEN GROW TOMATOES. SO YOU DON'T GET TO SET THE EXAMPLES OR THE RULES... ROFLMFAO

trollololollolololollolollol

I cant deal with this pro-government tax supporting troll anymore...
its like talking to a 5 year old who just can't seem to grasp that it isn't ice cream time...
Whats your plan for enforcement on your "new taxes for everyone" laws? unconstitutional door-to-door searches by taxmen? is that what you're in favor of? laughable plan...

before I un-sub... I feel like I need to put up a sign...

 

[budtang]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]GOOD THING YOU DONT SET POLICY.... NEW JOBS... BUT MAINLY FOR TAX MEN[/FONT]

I'm sorry, but it's a necessary job that's a part of legalization. Don't forget about the THOUSANDS of jobs created by residential grow operations. I noticed you conveniently left that part out.

Adults understand this and children don't. We can clearly see what category you fall into. Now, post another picture and fail to make any significant statements.

"Derp Derp. You can't grow fruit. Derp Derp. Ignore the failures of our policies because of this irrelevant fucking fact. derp derp. Forget about how we're criminalizing half the breeders on this forum. Derp derp. You said something innaccurate about Red Cards so that negates every legitimate point you made. DERP FUCKING DERP."

Would you care to address this point? Instead of focusing on Red Cards. Which, have nothing to do with with this point:

If you tax residential grow operations: $millions for schools

If you don't tax them: $0

Good job on fucking schools over you irresponsible little fucking children.

: )