Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[LSWM]

There is a serious disconnect from reality going on in this thread. Im not judging anyone, either. I'm just saying, there's a bunch of circular logic going on here.


A lot of great points are being made, on both sides of the issue. But one thing needs to be reiterated every so often, and I will do it now. Regardless of how you think about the issue, voting NO on legalization measures of any kind is the same thing as voting YES on sending marijuana users to jail. People like to over-complicate things and throw down sub clauses and so forth, which is what it is, but it's important to point out the one, unambiguous truth from time to time.

That is all.

I'd say you are the one with the disconnect. "This is how capitilism works." Not at all. You are not free. You are a slave of the government from the moment you are born. Where can you feed yourself from the land? You cannot without having a piece of paper which says you own an imaginary border on this earth which all humans share, and have roamed for thousands of years. Government says you cant grow weed, and the police, who are not there to protect you, only uphold the law, are the evil henchmen.

Capitalism inherently relies on freedom. Having laws which interact with the market, and consequently "coercing" people by force to follow them is about the farthest thing from capitalism i know of. Its organized crime just as bentom suggests.

 

[bentom187]

Well its not my definition, its called anarcho-capitalism. The cannabis industry. Specifically seedbay. No market regulation and there is voluntary exchange of money and products get sold based on quality and price.

A good short explanation. Don't legitimize violence and coercion.

I Am An Anarcho Capitalist
[YOUTUBEIF]4LIdY6TvR-Q[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[hush]

 

[ColoradoOG]

First off let me start by saying those of you who are pushing to say no to legalize are simply selfish. You should be ashamed of yourself. Legalization isn't about me or you its about not putting people in jail that shouldn't be. By keeping this illegal you put yourself, your family, and everyone you deal with in jeopardy of their freedom for something so stupid "Money". A lot of you try to justify it by bringing up "this is about us" when the reality shows its only about you and your own personal greed. Its disgusting to be straight up honest.

As for budtang you don't really go into detail of what you consider mid grade. In my opinion what mid grade means is grown right mediocre high yield strains. Top shelf is a low yield high potency strain that separates itself from the bulk of weed. By the way it sounds you seem to want to define midgrade as poorly grown weed and sure that's how the market general views it at this point because there is no real standard. With time those standards will be more apparent as growers either perish or get on the ball. I feel the majority will always be drawn to mid grade(my definition) as all markets general swing this way. However with that said there is always a place for top shelf and a business that I would personally run would have both. Secondly I don't need to show you pictures, you can look at my album or wait until my weed hits the market and go off the reviews. Truth be told im not going to post a big operation for you to dissect so you can try to change your methods to do what I already know works. I'm not here to have a pissing match with you, im simply trying to show you the light bro. I don't feel I have to show you anything as im comfortable with the direction my life's going and my own vision I have for this industry.

I think with what ive said ive pretty much covered what I feel I could contribute to this thread. Im disgusted that this is even a topic to begin with but I believe everyone has a right to their own opinions. I will no longer comment on this thread and wish everyone the best of luck.. Until the next thread I chime in on have a good one everyone.

Best Regards,
Cog

 

[bentom187]

View Image

Seedbay is imaginary ?

You wanted an example and I gave one. I am not sure how its imaginary but if you cant see that it is an example of people voluntarily exchanging money for goods in spite of government regulation then I don't think any explanation I could provide would make you see different.

 

[bentom187]

First off let me start by saying those of you who are pushing to say no to legalize are simply selfish. You should be ashamed of yourself. Legalization isn't about me or you its about not putting people in jail that shouldn't be. By keeping this illegal you put yourself, your family, and everyone you deal with in jeopardy of their freedom for something so stupid "Money". A lot of you try to justify it by bringing up "this is about us" when the reality shows its only about you and your own personal greed. Its disgusting to be straight up honest.

Dude there is more than one way to go about it rather than outright regulation and taxes licensing ect. .... Like repealing the laws that make it illegal in the first place.

Here is an example

H.R.2306 — 112th Congress (2011-2012)
Shown Here:
Introduced in House (06/23/2011)

Ending Federal Marijuana Prohibition Act of 2011 - Amends the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) to: (1) provide that such Act shall not apply to marihuana, except that it shall be unlawful to ship or transport from one state, territory, or district (jurisdiction) of the United States to another, or from a foreign country into such a U.S. jurisdiction, marihuana that is intended to be received, possessed, sold, or in any manner used in violation of any law of such jurisdiction; and (2) remove marihuana and tetrahydrocannabinols from the list of Schedule I controlled substances.

Amends the Controlled Substances Import and Export Act to exclude marijuana from its prohibitions on the import, export, manufacture, possession with intent to distribute, or distribution of a controlled substance.

 

[AlbertMarkovski]

Vote no so the plant and people who love it can stay that way.

I really don't understand this thinking. You want less access to the plant people love?

What about folks who want smoke, but don't have a qualifying medical condition? You - who claim to love this plant - really want them to risk imprisonment to try it?

 

[AlbertMarkovski]

Dude there is more than one way to go about it rather than outright regulation and taxes licensing ect. .... Like repealing the laws that make it illegal in the first place.

View Image

Here is an example

H.R.2306 — 112th Congress (2011-2012)
Shown Here:
Introduced in House (06/23/2011)

So vote no on state bills, in hopes that our national legislature can get it's stuff together? 0_o

There's a quote I love, don't know where it first came from: "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good."

 

[2 Legal Co]

I think/hope the OP is just unaware of what we have done here in Colorado.

We did an amendment to the State Constitution, which spells out 'personal' growing and put some #s in the language.... the numbers for personal are a bit low, but doable.

So NO we don't have much to regret here in Co.. We can't sell what we grow, but we don't have to pay taxes on what we grow either.

So VOTE YES on legalization.... if it's done correctly.....

Now if you are trying to make a living out of selling what you grow Illegally? Then legalization is not good for you. Under the Colo Amendment 64, you'd still go to jail for 'sales/distribution',,, and the price of your crop will be worth substantially lowered. Medical cannabis here is as low as $150 or so for an ounce,,, (retail being much higher at last report.) Mostly because of taxation. Still there is a bright side to the taxation. The schools are doing considerable 'capital' improvements, since quite a bit of it is earmarked for the school capital investment.

 

[Jhhnn]

Seedbay is imaginary ?

You wanted an example and I gave one. I am not sure how its imaginary but if you cant see that it is an example of people voluntarily exchanging money for goods in spite of government regulation then I don't think any explanation I could provide would make you see different.

Remarkable. The notion that Seedbay or any other "souvenir" seed trade business exists for any reason other than govt is absurd. On a multiplicity of levels, they exist because government exists, as does the money you reference. It's probably one of the most distorted markets in existence, straddling the law across multiple jurisdictions. "In spite of" isn't nearly the same as "in the absence of".

Which is not to denigrate them at all in the world as it is.

 

[hush]

^ Thank you. I have been in shock ever since reading that and still haven't found a way to respond to it. Your reply is way better than anything I could come up with...

Bentom, I was actually asking you to list a "real" example, like, a business that is not operating in a gray market. I didn't know I needed to specify that when the subject of this thread pertains to legalization, and the inherent government regulations that go hand in hand with an actual market place.

My position is that all businesses of every legitimate industry have to pay taxes and licensing fees, and follow government regulations. Your position seems to be that cannabis should either stay illegal or only be legalized if it can be the first industry that doesn't have to participate in the same paradigm as all other legitimate industries.

Gray markets are called gray markets for a reason... By definition, it is implied that under certain circumstances it can be considered illegal. Therefore, suggesting cannabis legalization can be akin to the cannabis seed market is erroneous.

 

[Jhhnn]

Dude there is more than one way to go about it rather than outright regulation and taxes licensing ect. .... Like repealing the laws that make it illegal in the first place.

View Image

Here is an example

H.R.2306 — 112th Congress (2011-2012)
Shown Here:
Introduced in House (06/23/2011)

To be blunt, real life isn't a situation where we can leap over tall buildings in a single bound like a comic book character.

CO style legalization Is exponentially better for the community than any realistic alternative ATM. It actively strikes at the heart of the rationale for cannabis prohibition & will obliterate it in this country over the course of the next few years.

We reveal the truth in a way that you couldn't accomplish in 100 years- we show a way that legal cannabis actually works, not how it might work. That difference is utterly profound from a public consciousness POV. That certainty sweeps aside the lies & distortions of prohibition in a way that nothing else possibly can.

If you think that we've sold out your Libertopian ideals, I'd suggest that we never shared them. If you think we compromised too much, I'd suggest that those same ideals cloud your judgement entirely. It's the price of Peace in the marijuana war, which is what we have for the vast majority of Coloradans. We convinced the rest of the electorate to take us in, grant us the legitimacy we've always deserved. We'll never give them reason to regret it, & we'll be able to move forward from here.

 

[budtang]

Medical cannabis here is as low as $150 or so for an ounce

I could make 6 figures selling weed for that much. What in the hell is your point? You're naming off figures that people can make good money from as if it's a downside. It's hilarious. Median income in the U.S. is $45,000. $150 oz makes you a gazzillionaire compared to that.

 

[budtang]

CO style legalization Is exponentially better for the community than any realistic alternative ATM.

No, it isn't. I can grow weed for money in my house in California. I can't do that in your state. Your state is just about the worst example of a legalization model we can have. So...

 

[budtang]

I think your assumptions are inaccurate, Budtang. At the same price, more potent weed is a better buy, allowing consumers to use less for the same result.Very potent weed = smaller/fewer puffs.

What? A consumer with low tolerance doesn't want high potency weed in any amount. They want mids. When I see people saying "I hate OG KUSH because it's too strong" you know there are going to be people who would never buy it.

In the rest of your most recent comment, you make other unwarranted assumptions as well. You assume mono-cropping by large operations when it's entirely possible & likely that they will grow more than one variety to achieve market penetration at different levels.

They won't succeed at top shelf levels. Large operations are failing now and they'll fail when big corporations get involved. Like these operations will be able to keep good growers employed. Any good grower is just going to go out on their own within a few years of working with a big operation. That's what I would do. That's probably what all these growers who showed up in CO with seed money from investors are planning right now. Those big investors throwing money down for growers to work for them are just going to get screwed over by the growers. The growers are going to say,"See you later douchers. I'm going to buy my own warehouse and work for myself."

I just see a lot of pitfalls that you're not taking into consideration with big corporate entities (neither are they) getting into this industry. The biggest one being the ability of these corporations to keep talented growers motivated to stay with the company. Are they going to throw these growers 80% of the profits? If not, these growers are just going to jump ship as soon as they make enough money to go out on their own and make 100% of the profits.

You also make the usual kush-lover attributes to appearance & effect as well.

It's not "kush-lover attributes." It's top shelf attributes. There are a variety of strains with comparable potency and appearance to Kush.

 

[LSWM]

I'll give you a realistic alternative. Unlimited personal growing. Starting tomorrow you can grow as much as you want just can't sell it. To participate in that industry you need to play the game just like any other "legitimate industry", pay taxes/etc, and that's okay with me...

WHY DOES LEGALIZATION HAVE TO BE A REGULATION ON THE # OF PLANTS I CAN HAVE? Nobody comes and tells me how much beer I can brew or how many POPPY PLANTS I can have, for ornamental purposes only of course. Why is MJ so different?

Ive yet to see anyone make any argument for the restriction of plant #s. And i keep asking the question... Here in CA i can cultivate as many plants as is neccessary for my medical condition, and come together with others to form a cooporative or collective to cultivate and distribute marijuana amongst ourselves.

Why do I want to legalize again? I cant imagine the new regulations being any better for users than that....

 

[resinryder]

From what I was told today from a reliable source, if recreational passes in Nevada Medical marijuana will be tossed out and everyone would be forced into the recreational shops. Read that as medical marijuana in Nevada will be a thing of the past and no patient being able to grow for themselves. No real sure but will be inquiring into this further. This would be a couple year process the way the state government procedures work.

 

[budtang]

First off let me start by saying those of you who are pushing to say no to legalize are simply selfish. You should be ashamed of yourself. Legalization isn't about me or you its about not putting people in jail that shouldn't be.

That's not what your model is about.

Under your model people will be stuck in jail who shouldn't be. People who grow weed in their homes for profit because they can't afford $500,000 warehouses shouldn't be thrown in jail.

As for budtang you don't really go into detail of what you consider mid grade. In my opinion what mid grade means is grown right mediocre high yield strains. Top shelf is a low yield high potency strain that separates itself from the bulk of weed.

Top shelf isn't just "low yield high potency." It's gotta to be grown properly. The genetics only accounts for so much of the definition. The grower's abilities account for the rest.

By the way it sounds you seem to want to define midgrade as poorly grown weed and sure that's how the market general views it at this point because there is no real standard.

Well, it's the most logical standard. I still think mid-grade can be well grown. It's not even something that can be quantified in the form of potency test, or any other system of variables.

However with that said there is always a place for top shelf and a business that I would personally run would have both.

Every person getting into this industry will attempt to do that. But, grow operations can only steadily supply so much of a variety of strains before their resources are tapped out and no more strains can be added. What happens when your client base is tired of the limited selection? This is why so many Colorado dispensaries have only 4 strains on the menu. You guys think you can grow it all yourselves and then you realize the market is too big to handle. You get greedy and don't want to wholesale purchase other strains outside of your own operations. Your menus are stagnant, as a result.

That's where guys like me would come into play if you had better laws in your state. We would provide you with more variety and in turn a happier customer base that keeps coming back to your store front. What I see happening in the future is grow operations and store fronts separating into 2 separate entities. Running a business is extremely difficult. Under your current model you dispensary owners are basically being forced to run 2 separate businesses and it's proving to be too much for you guys to handle. It's not your fault, it's just the nature of the business world. You can't be expected to manage every detail of store front operations to perfection on top of managing every detail in the grow operation to perfection, as well. Either one of those ventures is difficult to do in and of itself. Just as any business is difficult to run.

Secondly I don't need to show you pictures, you can look at my album

Your weed looks good, but unfortunately I don't consider that to be top shelf. Your OG Kush is nowhere near up to par with elite OG's from Cali. Your weed is a perfect example of why I do not buy Colorado weed. It's very good weed for being produced on a large scale (you said 500 lights???). However, it's not weed that can compete against the best of the best in the world.

Any California elite OG Kush smoker will tell you the same.gl

 

[Jhhnn]

No, it isn't. I can grow weed for money in my house in California. I can't do that in your state. Your state is just about the worst example of a legalization model we can have. So...

It's still all about you, isn't it?

MMJ Caregivers do basically the same thing here in CO. Retail is an entirely separate market.

 

[resinryder]

From what I was told today from a reliable source, if recreational passes in Nevada Medical marijuana will be tossed out and everyone would be forced into the recreational shops. Read that as medical marijuana in Nevada will be a thing of the past and no patient being able to grow for themselves. No real sure but will be inquiring into this further. This would be a couple year process the way the state government procedures work.

Also need to add that this is the long term plan and not the short term. No way they could do away with medical and push everyone into recreational with the next vote or legislative session without a major fight. Looks like the petition to go recreactional isn't up to voters but up to the legislation as the signatures for the current petition doesn't need to be turned in to have signatures verified until November 11th or 14th. A week after election day. So fuck the voter and leave it to those in line to make money representing prospective clients. Got to love the way Nevada works