Vintage Colombian

[Sam_Skunkman]

I also used to believe that high altitude was required to produce the best qualities. But after 30 years of producing the same identical clones at high altitude and sea level, I have changed my mind.
What is it you think the high altitude does? Any idea?
It does not change the Cannabinoid profiles, as confirmed in my lab with GC analysis. Not surprising as Cannabinoid profile is controlled by the genetics, not the environment, what is the change in Cannabinoid profiles, can you tell me? I could not find it in the same clones grown high and low. And I found zero differences in the profiles of a Original Haze (high altitude Colombian) grown at sea level and at high altitudes. The same with terpene profiles, the same clones had the same profiles, high and low altitudes grown, as terpene production is also controlled by the genetics.
The environment may effect yields, if for example the plants are to cold to flower correctly, but not profiles.
You need the genes to produce any given Cannabinoid or terpene, they do not come from nothing.
I now think the reason I found so much herb that was better at high altitudes is because the growers can do their breeding and production with little or no government interference, having the law destroy crops of the best of the best year after year does not make for quality in the long run.
I would be happy to test a high altitude grown plant bud that you feel has "special qualities" if you could keep the clone alive and have it also grown at sea level so I could test both side by side. But I can assure you the Cannabinoids present will be the same.
I do agree with your search for "clearer and productive with less negative second life. Over the years I’ve found most Colombian here has a strong effect but with it comes a dirty sleepy narcotic come down...
I do also get very good Colombian (non crippy) that is clean and also strong with a refreshing satisfying finish (like what I grew myself here @2,700mts)"

BTW, the highest I ever collected seeds was at just over 9,000 feet in Kashmir, they were not good quality at all, but they were 800+ seeds to the gram, and when grown at sea level they were still making 800+ seeds to the gram and the herb was still not good.
-SamS

High Altitude


I feel altitude is very important in cultivating drug strain cannabis. It is well know that strains coming from high altitude grows around the world produce cannabis of exceptional quality. From Afghanistan, Nepal, Thailand, and Mexico and of course Colombia, comes unique strains of slightly different cannabinoid profiles. Which is not to say that fantastic cannabis isn’t cultivated at lower altitudes or indoors because obviously it is. But to me there’s just something special and noticeable about the cannabinoid profiles of certain high altitude tropical strains. The effect is the same as in all good cannabis but the high altitude strain seems to have more of what I want from the effect. Not necessarily “stronger” or more potent but clearer and productive with less negative second life. Over the years I’ve found most Colombian here has a strong effect but with it comes a dirty sleepy narcotic come down. The bud is good in the sense that it’s strong and effective but you pay a price for it. However I do also get very good Colombian (non crippy) that is clean and also strong with a refreshing satisfying finish (like what I grew myself here @2,700mts). So I’ve come to the conclusion that the clear clean high I’m looking for come from high altitude grows. This is just a general conclusion and there are variable factors that can change. All good cannabis affects me with an intense euphoria and sense of well-being but it seems to me the high altitude strains to channel it better. Common sense tells me that the cannabis plant responds to intense “light” by producing resin to protect itself, the super intense equatorial sunlight at high altitudes tickles the plant in just the right way. Adding a certain complexity to the cannabinoid profile of the plant. Further testing is currently underway.


Red rider

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Is the killer Queen a WLD, Indica in effects, or a NLD Sativa in effects? It is G13 X Cinderella 99, yes? How long to flower? Did you grow it outdoors? Any problems with mold? Did it get rained on?
Look interesting....
-SamS

This is a Killer Queen plant I grew out down here.


View Image


The seeds were a gift from a very generous member here at IC in 2006. I grew 3 females and all three were identical in all ways, like clones.


View Image


They all grew these strange flowers with no real hairs and all had a pineapple smell and taste (really pronounced).


View Image


This stuff never had a chance to cure, it was gone by the time it was fully dry.


red rider

 

[red rider]

Altitude is the key focus of my project and let me simplify why in a word “light”. I will expand, the better the light the more complex the cannabinoid profile. Cannabis is a natural plant and what we want from it is a natural experience, so common sense tells me that a plant grown under optimal natural growing conditions produces an enhanced cannabinoid profile. The sunlight at high altitudes is more intense, why? Because there is less light obstruction from smog and other natural filtering partials that are found at lower attitudes. It’s even more than intense light that gives high altitude plants an advantage, there’s less oxygen the higher up you go. Up to a certain point (I think the sweet spot is between 10 to 5 thousand ft) the combination of pure intense sunlight with reduced oxygen, creates plants that have a certain complexity in their cannabinoid profile that is unique. Now I’m not sugesting that plants grow better or faster or even stronger at high altitude, what I’m saying is the complexity of the effect is cleaner more refined. Now you match a sweet spot altitude with an equatorial latitude and you have the ultimate light source for cannabis drug cultivation. Yes you can grow high quality cannabis indoors but even with our greatest technology we can never replicate the sun and how it really affects cannabis cannabinoid profiles. Giving an explanation with words and even pictures will always be up for debate because what we are talking about is something that must be felt and can’t be distinguished from visually. One day you will have the option to compare, then all will understand.
Also everyone is an individual and perceives things in somewhat different ways, some may very well not be able to differentiate high altitude tropical grown cannabis from others. It is a subtle difference and can vary in degree from person to person and plant to plant. Take coffee for example, coffee grown at lower altitudes is very good and represents a premium example of the bean however it is not valued the same as high altitude grown coffee. There’s a difference you can really taste, while the low altitude grown coffee is good the high altitude grown coffee is excellent. I believe the same principle applies here with coffee, high altitude = better light = more complexity to plants attributes. In my thinking the best sets of cannabinoid profiles (medical) will and have come from plants of high altitude tropical grown origins.

 

[idiit]

gots to agree with rr.


i saw a huge difference in the quality of psychoactivty and potency of my properly indoor grown seeds of africa malawi gold over my properly grown outdoor run (1st outdoor run) of the same cut. surprisingly to me, the first indoor run under a mere sole 400w hps was 2 notches better than the od. the outdoor came in 11/15 and could have used 2 more weeks but even that under a weak outdoor winter sun based on pace of progress of the outdoor wasn't going to be as good.

the intensity of the sun to me was key.

i have a clone of the same mg cut finishing now (3rd id run) and it is ripening faster and looks to be mo betta based on appearances. i have this 3rd id run clone within the effective driving distance of the hps (aprox. 24"). i just finished another run id (2nd id run) of the same cut and had it pushed off to the side a bit away from the effective driving distance of the 400w hps. this 2nd id run was better than the outdoor run cut but not as good as the first indoor run that did finish within the effective driving distance of the hps.

^ i am seeing big time differences in potency and psychoactivity on the same cut depending on the intensity (not spectrum). in fact, intensity of lumens is far outweighing balanced spectrum on the seeds of africa malawi gold.

high altitude is far more intense lumens.


i believe intensity of lumens is playing a big role in the psychoactivity and potency of the soa mg.

i've been posting some smoke reports on this strain here:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=245976&page=7

 

[Mustafunk]

Light intensity and light quality (spectrum) shouldn't be confused. Both are important and have an big influence on the plant performance but in different ways.


Cannabis is a light hungry plant, it responds very nicely towards light intensity producing abundant flower explosions. You can experiment the opposite growing a plant in shade. That's why you get more harder buds and better calyx/leaf ratios under 1000W than under 400W, or indoors than outdoors in northern latitudes. Now that light could also be a bland amount of light if it's a poor spectrum (in comparison to the sunlight) but because cannabis is very adaptative and loves light plus it's been adapting itself to indoor growing for decades, it works like a charm. This is also the reason why latitude matters (different beam spreading) and temperate regions have less sunlight intensity than equatorial regions.Obvioulsy in the tropics there is more sun, more hours and sun is more paralell to the earth so there's more intensity as well).

As for the light quality and spectrum, this is exactly the reason why normally outdoor weed from sunny climates (or tropical) will beat everything, because unfortunately sunlight can't be replicated yet. The complexity of the sun radiation, its light spectrum and all the wavelength frequencies have an effect in the plant's light sensitive cells and pigments, making the plant to express certain behaviour or another. Cannabinoid and terpene production potential is in the genotype but it's the favorable enviromental conditions (light, temperature, soil, water, etc) what triggers it to be succesfully expressed in the phenotypes. This is also why the latest combinations of HPS lights in combination with Leds or also Led alone with a proper full spectrum and intensity enough are giving much better results than HPS alone (in both resin, potency and terpenes besides maybe less meat and volume in the buds), making the results closer to sunlight and having the best of both worlds (indoors/outdoors). This is because besides the lower intesity, the spectrum is richer so the plant can express better qualities if its genotype has the potential.

This leads us to the eternal clash between outdoor vs indoor weed. Sunlight may give better results but because the unpredictable conditions that can't beeffectively controlled by us (cloudy days, rain, etc), normally the result is worse than the untouched buds grown under perfectly controlled indoor conditions (that have exactly the same amount and intensity of light every day). So the outdoor plants (especially in northern areas) may appear less potent, pungent or productive than outdoor buds. But this because they are more intact buds, not necessarily better buds.

Keeping this in mind, there could be undeed some differences between high altitude and low altitude grown cannabis. Because if altitude doesn't matter, latitude shouldn't matter either. Although they may be small unless we compare 6000km grown cannabis vs sea-level grown one.

I never experimented it nor compared two samples but what is a fact is that in higher altitudes, the light is more intense and the UV radiation is higher as well because the atmosphere is thinner so the light is unfiltered. Obvioulsy this may have an influence on the plants just like cloudy days and lack of light may have in temperate regions.

Vibes.

 

[satva]

In my younger days I frequently climbed 14,000 foot mountains. The air is thinner at 14,000 feet than at sea level. The sun is more intense and the air thinner above 12,000 feet, everyone notices the thin air at high altitude. The air is thicker, noticed immediately, when we visit sea level and thinner when we hike above 12,000 feet. You get high, or light headed above 12,000 feet. Often referred to as Rocky Mountain high,......hiking above + 12,000 feet makes you sing old Beatles songs you haven't heard in years.

Colorado mountains are no place to grow thin leaf cannabis outdoors, but its common knowledge that people retreated to the mountains to grow cannabis in greenhouses.

Not sure why, but I always preferred highland grown genetics, Highland Thai, Highland Nepalese, Highland Mexican, Santa Marta Gold Colombian, perhaps because genetics were easier to conceal preserve in remote mountain regions. I'd like to grow Highland Punto Rojo, but mid to high grade 1970's Colombian was often too strong, dense, and psychedelic for my taste, with that dirty come-down that Red Rider notes.

Cheers!

According to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), “UV intensity increases with altitude because there is less atmosphere to absorb the damaging rays. As a result, your chance of damaging your eyes and skin increases at higher altitude.”

At high altitudes the ultraviolet rays from the sun are more intense and therefore more damaging. Cautionary notes from those who live in high altitude areas include the observation that “sunburns at high altitude may also have a longer delay factor – they may not show up until you are more seriously burned than you would be at lower altitude. In other words, by the time you notice that you are turning pink, you may be actually in the process of developing a second degree burn that will blister. Fair skin can begin to burn within half an hour, and two hours can burn you badly enough to give you trouble sleeping that night.”

This increase in the risk for sun damage does not happen just because at high altitudes you are closer to the sun. It also relates to air density. Think of a wool blanket- the thicker the blanket, the more warmth it keeps in. The atmosphere acts as a blanket holding in heat (generated by earth and sunlight striking the earth). At higher levels, the blanket is thinner, therefore it is cooler. However, the thicker the blanket the more direct rays of the sun are filtered, so as it becomes thinner, fewer rays are filtered and the risk for sun damage becomes greater. According to statistics from the Denver Visitors Bureau, at 6,280 ft or approximate one mile above sea level, there is 25% less protection from UVR.

 

[idiit]

^ yes. spectrum and intensity are different, should be treated as such.

with riddleme's interesting posts on led lighting in the trip weed thread (starting here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=278209&page=67) and affirmed by several including mustafunk one could easily conclude that spectrum is paramount.

ultraviolet spectrum is an important part of the light spectrum.


with the soa mg strain i think i found that intensity was paramount.

sooner or later someone will run soa under those most excellent leds. be interesting to say the least.

obviously proper spectrum and proper intensity would be optimum.

what i found to be very interesting in my soa mg run was that the intensity was the key, even with solely hps spectrum provided. this included potency and psychoactivity.

 

[red rider]

Highlander

Highlander

Very good information! Thanks Mustafunk for the hard data that seems to express my point on the significance of altitude.

I must give worthy recognition where it is due and that to indoor growers and particularly growers in extreme northern (or southern) latitudes. You guys are truly the finest cultivators and it is amazing how you are able to bring out such fine expressions in the plant.

When I lived in the states I sampled some indoor grown “skunk” from southern California ($35 a gr. In Georgia) that was a master piece of cannabis art. It was beautiful to look at with deep rich greens and covered in oversized glands. The smell was almost unrealistically sweet and pungent with a taste to match. The effect was also designer like, carrying you off like a magic carpet ride hybrid sensation that was richly euphoric and clean. Truly amazing stuff and well worth the price due to its rarity and quality.

However the high altitude grown Colombian sinsemilla (not crippy but can be) has a subtle edge on the indoors both in effect and aroma. The Colombian has a deeper rich hash like flavor but not skunky or Afghanish in anyway, more like spicy Lebanese incense. The effect is more uplifting than it is sedating, more motivating and satisfying than the slightly more euphoric indoor. Of course I’m comparing two very different strains but just like with coffee I can really tell the difference and prefer the highland stuff.

Here's an excellent example of quality Colombian gold (note the golden trichs).


red rider

 

[red rider]

The “Killa Queens”

The “Killa Queens”

The “Killa Queens” I grew in early 2007 were actually a freebie that came with a seed order. They were indeed G-13 X Cindy99 regular seeds.

The Killa’s were grown the same way I grow everything, low tech. I hold a firm “grow or die” stance and the Killa’s were treated no different. They grew from seed (no germing) in slightly prepared local soil and put in the sun on my patio in a barrio outside of Bogotá (2,640 meters (8,660 ft.).

They started in late November and finished early April and yielded very little since they had no veg time outside. Like I said they grew strange flowers unlike most cannabis. The effect from all three plants was spectacular and equal among the three.

A perfect balance of WLD & NLD, starting with a warm racy peak and finishing with a quality WLD effect.

Really quality breeding expressed I think because the plants were identical in every way. They got rained on, hailed on and still pulled through great, a really good plant (genetics).

SourJack, another mind blowing "freebie"


red rider

 

[Betterhaff]

red ryder, sometimes I check out IC without logging on just to see what’s been going on. But pretty much every time I end up in your thread and need to be logged on to see most of the pictures (not complaining, lol).

That pic of the rainbow looking bud sure brought back memories. You’re right, it wasn’t as potent as the red bud but it was up there.

Damn Sam, 800 seeds per gram…those must have been teeny tiny.

 

[Raco]

Killer Queen grow outdoors...Lonestar´s cut

Good herb!

 

[red rider]

Above Bogotá!

Above Bogotá!

Every New Year’s Day, the family and I head up to the top of the mountain just east of the city.

There’s a restaurant my wife likes up there and we make a day of it. I always take my baseball bat hitter and after a few beers with the family I wonder off to take a closer look at the view with a hit or 10 off the bat.

The afternoon is spent drinking ice cold Club Colombian beer and feasting on heaping platters of roasted beef, pork, chicken and boar.

The nice early day beer buzz combined with a fine Colombian Sativa makes the view spectacular!

We have the best weather in January. I personally don’t like the city, any city but I’ve come to love living in Bogotá!


red rider

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Don't get me wrong I agree that high mountain grown Cannabis seems to have special effects, I am wondering why?
To me it is not as you felt that high altitude creates a more complex cannabinoid profile. That is for sure. Unless you feel that Cannabis has the ability to produce different Cannabinoids then its genes will allow? I have tested many clones Cannabinoid profiles grown at both high and low level altitudes, some were high mountain Colombian even, the Cannabinoid amounts produced at high and low were slightly different, the profiles and Cannabinoids present did not alter.
Can you list a single different Cannabinoid found in high mountain grown Cannabis? If not why do you presume that different Cannabinoids are is the reason?
That and only THC gets you high, CBN will get you a bit loaded but not high like you want, CBD does not get you higher, it does modulate THC by delaying onset, reducing peak experiences, and making it last longer, not what I want. THCV & CBC have some of the same effects as CBD, they do not get you high they do modulate
THC much as CBD.
I have never once tried any Cannabinoid besides THC that got me high, I have tried all of the top 10-20 Cannabinoids found in Cannabis, I had 100% pure samples to try with colleagues and only THC gets you high, for sure.
Do you know of any Cannabinoids besides THC that get you high? I do not.
And most Thai and Colombian analyzed had only THC with very very little to none of the other Cannabinoids.
I am not saying my explanation I posted in the #481 is proven, it is what I think now after many years trying to answer the same question, with the added knowledge from years of research and Cannabinoid analysis. That and the knowledge that Cannabinoid expression is controlled by genetics, you can't make a Cannabis plant produce new different Cannabinoids, I have never seen it, never heard of it, never read anything that supports that idea.

It is pretty simple to take the same clone that does what you think, make more complex Cannabinoids at high altitude, and grow it at high altitude and sea level and check the Cannabinoid profiles when done. I have done it many times but I am happy to do the same for you, a GC analysis only needs a 1/4 gram or less of a sample.
If you are wrong I think you want to know? If you are right I will certainly admit you were.

I am doing this in the spirit of helping you understand what it is that makes better Cannabis, I love your photos and the varieties you talk about. Thai and Colombian have been my favorites for 40 years, many that I collected or grew myself.
-SamS

Altitude is the key focus of my project and let me simplify why in a word “light”. I will expand, the better the light the more complex the cannabinoid profile. Cannabis is a natural plant and what we want from it is a natural experience, so common sense tells me that a plant grown under optimal natural growing conditions produces an enhanced cannabinoid profile. The sunlight at high altitudes is more intense, why? Because there is less light obstruction from smog and other natural filtering partials that are found at lower attitudes. It’s even more than intense light that gives high altitude plants an advantage, there’s less oxygen the higher up you go. Up to a certain point (I think the sweet spot is between 10 to 5 thousand ft) the combination of pure intense sunlight with reduced oxygen, creates plants that have a certain complexity in their cannabinoid profile that is unique. Now I’m not suggesting that plants grow better or faster or even stronger at high altitude, what I’m saying is the complexity of the effect is cleaner more refined. Now you match a sweet spot altitude with an equatorial latitude and you have the ultimate light source for cannabis drug cultivation. Yes you can grow high quality cannabis indoors but even with our greatest technology we can never replicate the sun and how it really affects cannabis cannabinoid profiles. Giving an explanation with words and even pictures will always be up for debate because what we are talking about is something that must be felt and can’t be distinguished from visually. One day you will have the option to compare, then all will understand.
Also everyone is an individual and perceives things in somewhat different ways, some may very well not be able to differentiate high altitude tropical grown cannabis from others. It is a subtle difference and can vary in degree from person to person and plant to plant. Take coffee for example, coffee grown at lower altitudes is very good and represents a premium example of the bean however it is not valued the same as high altitude grown coffee. There’s a difference you can really taste, while the low altitude grown coffee is good the high altitude grown coffee is excellent. I believe the same principle applies here with coffee, high altitude = better light = more complexity to plants attributes. In my thinking the best sets of cannabinoid profiles (medical) will and have come from plants of high altitude tropical grown origins.

 

[BoldAsLove]

Sam, did you run a terpene analysis on the highland v. lowland experiment?

 

[red rider]

Hey Sam, I agree with you, I want to know why. Sure I have my theories however I’m most defiantly open to debate. And your valid input is critical. Thanks. Now I will pitch my point of view.
First I think I’m confusing genetic composition with individual plant characteristics. For example I you take DNA from a German shepherd and DNA from a pug, you would have dog DNA right? But a pug and a German shepherd are very different characteristically. I mean genetically their the same thing, dog. Do genetics tell us individual characteristics, like size shape and disposition or just identify the species? So if I take clone and grow it outside under poor growing conditions and grow the mother plant say indoors under optimal conditions, it will appear to be very different but genetically equal to the clone. Not only that but what about different phenol types within the same genetic profile, we all know there’s variation within even “bred” strains. Does that mean that if you take DNA from two different phenols of the same strain, their cannabinoid profiles are equal? I mean in reality cannabis cannabinoid profiles vary not only from plant to plant within the same species but also on the plant itself. The top plant of the plant must have much different cannabinoid ratios than the lower part of the plant.
And as far as growing conditions changing genetic profiles I think they must, of course not within one generation but over time organisms adapt to their environment and that’s why we have distinct regional varieties within a specie. I would call this modification or genetic change as species adapt over time to their environment, evolution?

Now I wish I could give you a black and white detail scientific explanation why high altitude cannabis produces a superior effect but I can’t because our current technology simply can’t detect the difference. This effect is much deeper than a chemical test can detect maybe. I mean I don’t know if there’s scientific evidence that can show hothouse grown tomatoes are not as tasty as homegrown tomatoes but I sure can tell the difference.

So to give you a simplified summary of why higher altitude is a factor in cultivating superior drug cannabis. One the natural sun light is more intense. Two air pressure and oxygen concentration is less. I believe these two factors are sufficient enough to cause the plant to be “stressed” in a particular fashion that creates this wonderful difference in what I perceive to be the cannabinoid profile.

Also as soon as I am able I will be happy to provide you with some samples for lab analysis as I want to know myself. And I really want to know exactly where the “pure” Colombian drug strains originated from.

red rider

 

[satva]

not as tasty as homegrown tomatoes

Amen for heirloom homegrown tomatoes! Unless you are growing for yield, commercial farmers, around here, hate heirloom tomatoes.

"stressed"

Santa Marta Gold Highland Colombian was stressed during late flowering, and crucified, or allowed to cure on the plant.... something like that. Environment, during the time cannabis is at peak resin production is what I'm thinking.

Last August, I placed two Destroyer (Highland Thai xMex/Col) clones at + 12 weeks flowering - outside in Colorado's intense mid-late summer sun for 11 hours daylight (11/13) prior to 12/12 fall equinox in Colorado and prior to the time when heirloom tomatoes are at peak production.

My artistic vision was increasing resin production, thru stress, ie. intense sunlight and dry environment, dry soil ~ 25% humidity. I should note, I top and defoliate heirloom tomatoes in August, to get the tomatoes thinking about producing tomatoes and not new vegetation, or new flowers. This also allows as much of the sun's energy into the plant area with undeveloped tomatoes. Everyone knows you harvest heirloom tomatoes, as they ripen - from the bottom up.

What, of course, happened, with the flowering Destroyer clones was increased vegetation, <not what I was hoping> I got new vegetation, gold resin, spent resin production, and a nice gold color after cure.

I have more "research" to do, but the Destroyer mothers flowered indoors in a more controlled environment produced a far superior effect.

At my house, up until the late harvest phase, natural sunlight, and mother nature know best.

 

[red rider]

Cartagena

Cartagena

Love Cartagena, but only for short holidays, much too hot there for me.

red rider

 

[ThaiBliss]

Greetings,

Very interesting discussion. Nice post Sam. I've read other posts by you where you seemed to discount the modulating effects of cannabinoids on THC. My experience is that it is not always the highest THC strain that gets me the highest in effects that I want. Your post confirms to me that your experiments might support this observation. I must have misunderstood those other posts you've made. This is a segue to my next point. There is another major factor that might have been left out. The differences in brain chemistry of the observer. I don't know if it is actually chemistry of the brain. That is my phrase for the differences in perception that people seem to have when experiencing the same stimulus. B.T.W., I like strains that have very low amounts of "minor" cannabinoids, like Thai and Colombian. This preference very definitely, in my opinion, affects my observations and evaluations in contrast to other smokers.

I've never done any good controlled experiments on the effects of the high under different growing conditions. I have stumbled onto a few things that I've seen make a big difference on the potency and quality of the high of the same cutting. Some that are far more controversial than amount of UV light. I'll admit that this could be due in part to what I call the titration factor. Damned! More complications. The correct dosage is important to my experience. Just because I love the high of a certain strain does not mean that I will love it more when I smoke a bigger dose of it. I seem to enjoy a very certain level of dosage. Hmmm... achieving "controlled" tests are much harder than we might think. All this being said, the very best weed I have ever smoked was something grown indoors by my own hand. I've been smoking for 46 years, and growing about 36 of those 46 years. My point being that I have smoked a lot of different strains grown by a lot of different people under a lot of various conditions. I've only had success, with what I consider world class weed, less than 10 times. I mean I've had < 10 different cuttings that I could grow successfully repeatedly. If it were genetics alone, I would think that I would have been successful more often than that.

Oh crap! I'm either very very picky, a really bad grower, or both! It sucks to be me.


My experiences tells me that there is not a rule that we can grab onto as gospel. Nature vs. Nurture is not something that can be solved. It is more complex than that.

I've also had a few different strains that were very heavy producers outside, that I could not get to produce even moderately well indoors. Some seem to be better producers indoors. I know this is a slightly different subject, but it demonstrates my point less subjectively.

The bottom line is find what works for you, repeat it, and spread those genetics around to your friends who appreciate those results.


ThaiBliss

 

[red rider]

This is a very interesting topic to me, Satva great experiments you’re doing. Actually what I meant by “stress” was something not artificially induced but a natural process that occurs in plants grown at a higher altitude.


ThaiBliss I think you are looking for exactly the effect I’m talking about. It’s rare and not something that just occurs in high altitude grown cannabis, although I feel it’s more prevalent in them. All I’ve grown has been outdoor at high altitude but under less than perfect conditions, so I don’t have anything to really compare with. I’m anxious to be able to grow Colombian (pure) genetics in the ground in full all day sun and see the results. I predict that with careful selective natural breeding that we can find plants that carry and reproduce this cannabinoid profile that we are looking for. Proving the difference in a laboratory may be challenging if not impossible with current technology. As far as individual perceptions and sensitivity to particular cannabinoid profiles, I must agree that we are all slightly different but still have the same basic idea of a quality experience. It’s funny because on a few occasions in the past I’ve had people tell me how good a sample was for them but I found it lacking. I’ve also had bud that I though was low potency and had friends get blown away by it. So yeah I think that’s important as well as mood and setting when having a session. For years I liked to be high all the time only stopping for sleep but now I try to only get high when I can really enjoy it. Now I don’t mean going weeks without waiting for a “special” time to smoke, I mean like after work, after the kids go to bed and quality time with the wife. If I’ve got some where to go or something important to do I wait to get high. I’ve found by doing this I not only enjoy the effect 100% but I can make a better assessment of the bud and how it affects me.



red rider

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

x

Hey Sam, I agree with you, I want to know why. Sure I have my theories however I’m most defiantly open to debate. And your valid input is critical. Thanks. Now I will pitch my point of view.
First I think I’m confusing genetic composition with individual plant characteristics. For example I you take DNA from a German shepherd and DNA from a pug, you would have dog DNA right? But a pug and a German shepherd are very different characteristically. I mean genetically their the same thing, dog. Do genetics tell us individual characteristics, like size shape and disposition or just identify the species? So if I take clone and grow it outside under poor growing conditions and grow the mother plant say indoors under optimal conditions, it will appear to be very different but genetically equal to the clone. Not only that but what about different phenol types within the same genetic profile, we all know there’s variation within even “bred” strains. Does that mean that if you take DNA from two different phenols of the same strain, their cannabinoid profiles are equal?

In Cannabis that is bred so the plants are as similar in Cannabinoid profile the profiles are pretty much the same. In a complex multi-poly-hybrid maybe not. But remember that very little Cannabinoids besides THC are found in good quality Cannabis, the traditional farmers removed all the other Cannabinoids by selection of seeds of the best plants over hundreds of years, except for in hashish countries where farmers did not smoke individual plants, they saved the seeds from plants with the most resin, be it THC or CBD.


I mean in reality cannabis cannabinoid profiles vary not only from plant to plant within the same species but also on the plant itself. The top plant of the plant must have much different cannabinoid ratios than the lower part of the plant.

Ratios are pretty constant, the total amounts are what is changing not the profile. When I test a 1 week old seedling I can tell the Cannabinoid ratio, but not the potential absolute amounts.

And as far as growing conditions changing genetic profiles I think they must, of course not within one generation but over time organisms adapt to their environment and that’s why we have distinct regional varieties within a specie. I would call this modification or genetic change as species adapt over time to their environment, evolution?

Now I wish I could give you a black and white detail scientific explanation why high altitude cannabis produces a superior effect but I can’t because our current technology simply can’t detect the difference.

Not true at all, I used GC-MS, HPLC, for 20+ years and will try proton-MNR this year to see if any advantages. I suspect it is not Cannabinoid based. If there is a difference I can find it.

This effect is much deeper than a chemical test can detect maybe. I mean I don’t know if there’s scientific evidence that can show hothouse grown tomatoes are not as tasty as homegrown tomatoes but I sure can tell the difference.


I also grow heirloom tomatoes for home use for 40 years, bio-dynamicly, organically, in the ground, in my greenhouse. You could not tell where they were grown. The average bullshit hothouse tomatoes, easy.

So to give you a simplified summary of why higher altitude is a factor in cultivating superior drug cannabis. One the natural sun light is more intense. Two air pressure and oxygen concentration is less. I believe these two factors are sufficient enough to cause the plant to be “stressed” in a particular fashion that creates this wonderful difference in what I perceive to be the cannabinoid profile.

I am pretty sure you can't find different Cannabinoids by growing at different altitudes, at least when I tried. Other things in the plant could be altered but then they would need to get you high or affect how THC gets you high. I suggest you focus on terpenes, I have not done enough work yet to see what the modifying effects of high altitude/UVB are, and to state the terpene profile is unaffected.
-SamS



Also as soon as I am able I will be happy to provide you with some samples for lab analysis as I want to know myself. And I really want to know exactly where the “pure” Colombian drug strains originated from.

red rider