Vertical Systems

[Mr.Jones]

I would agree with krunch bubble by building your system you'll end up saving a lot of money. With the Coli all it is a big plant bed set sideways. A very expensive plant bed. I myself am attempting vert gardening for the first time and it definitely has its learning curve . Like purpledomgoddes mentioned it has its constraints. I like the idea of kootenays set up, bookshelfs on wheels.

overgrowing your canopy and constraint of space to work in are my biggest gripes. Know your strain.

good luck.

how much do you think i would have to invest in a self-build to build up a complete 800w system like the kettle?
the coli is no option - i got neither the experience to run it nor the space - and i agree the 3000 is a lot of money!
i would have fear in a home build systemt that some parts which arent thought thru good enough make problems - like moldy wood - i guess the companys which produced those systems actually had some kind of learning and improvement process and so i guess the systems are at least stable to run!

Don't forget about the Phototron!

Also, you can make your own like I did:

your plants look pretty sweet! - but how long did they veg for?
looks like some time and i find it interessting to have a system which can go after 1 week of veg into flower
the phototron is looking good as well but a little small but i gonna post the info here as well

Phototron:

330w vertical
36000 lumens
21" by 51"

price: around 600

there's that new rotating garden that uses 360 of light. Not quite veritical, but similar in some ways in principle.

whats the name of the garden? something like the omega garden?

Google Green Bastard vertical set up. It is 8x8 I think and does not have the extreme plant numbers you are looking at with all the other systems. Heath Robinson has one I think he calls pot racks that is lower on numbers as well. Then there is Krusty with the lowest numbers of plants and the highest watts per plant. Syk has a thread on the subject. I would never want any of these commercial set ups. I'd personally go with Heath or Green Bastard.

i googled it bur its on CC and im not registered - can you post pics of the two set ups here or is this forbidden? i dont want to be on to many boards because i think the risk goes up with each more ...

how about a vertical cab?
400w
co2
DIY air conditioned
home made down to the last drop.

this looks amazing - but again the problem is its a vertical screen of green and it needs probably at least 3 weeks of veg right?
and if i would have to build two of them or 2 levels which is again a lot of height ...

I am loving vert but there is a learning curve. Here is my grow. 1200w organic coco...

looking good your set up but i guess the veg time is pretty long there too ... and the learning curve is i think in a bought system not so bad as in a homebuild because i can get info before and say okay im gonna try it that way and i guess if one doesnt get any pests or some other struggles


i build my cab all by myself and gotta say i did kinda well but i didnt save a dime - i actually spent more money than on a system like a homebox or something ... if i would go vertical i wouldnt want 4 test runs to reach some point where i would say - okay now its kinda running- it took me now about 6 runs or more to build up a system which is still buging sometimes and that sucks! its always some more improving and after that rune even more improving - in my oppinion 800w is pretty big and i guess i would need at least 1000 to build up a complete system; so i could get the kettle say fo 1600 thats a prics diffrence of 600
if i would spend 1600 on a vertical system it is supposed to work - a bought system should actually do that, be reliable and easy to get along with (im not saying: hey i buy a system and the first run should be perfect or im gonna dump it)
if i would go vertical i would at least need the fact that a system like the kettle can improve the yields up to 1.5gr./w because if not i would go on tables with lightmovers ... and the advertisment for the kettle says it can go over 2gr./w and im asking myself if this is straight bullshit or is it possible with the right strains and the right handling?
can i be sure i dont face unsolvable problems when its running?

 

[magiccannabus]

your plants look pretty sweet! - but how long did they veg for?
looks like some time and i find it interessting to have a system which can go after 1 week of veg into flower

Thanks The veg time is pretty long actually, but my setup is perpetual, so there's always a plant or two waiting to go into flower at any moment. Once they're all established there should never be a wait.

 

[buddymate]

Isnt there a revolving vert system called the ballerina?

 

[Mr.Jones]

Thanks The veg time is pretty long actually, but my setup is perpetual, so there's always a plant or two waiting to go into flower at any moment. Once they're all established there should never be a wait.

what gr./w do you reach? what strains do you grow?
perpetual makes lots of sense ofcourse
what dou you think you spend on the system?

snt there a revolving vert system called the ballerina?

cant find anything about it ...

 

[Jack Bensa]

In our business its quite same situation like in porn business.
Take the money away from easy customers cause they cant complain about anything.So i wouldnt buy ever anykind of vertical systems because the prices are insane,just insane.

Even if you make your own fiberclass replica of Colosseum it would be cost at max 30% of premade.

Those rockwool things are maybe 10%.

All what you get with those prices are some shiny plastic.

I think you should find some Heath Robinsons sewerpipe verticals and you understand how cheap and easy they are to make.

I have used few years sewerpipes and i have to say there isnt much to learn to build them.

You could check my albums to see one unfinished vertical system.
Im going to update the project in this weekend when i filp it to 12/12 and build another one next to the first one.

 

[Mr.Jones]

In our business its quite same situation like in porn business.
Take the money away from easy customers cause they cant complain about anything.So i wouldnt buy ever anykind of vertical systems because the prices are insane,just insane.

Even if you make your own fiberclass replica of Colosseum it would be cost at max 30% of premade.

Those rockwool things are maybe 10%.

All what you get with those prices are some shiny plastic.

I think you should find some Heath Robinsons sewerpipe verticals and you understand how cheap and easy they are to make.

I have used few years sewerpipes and i have to say there isnt much to learn to build them.

You could check my albums to see one unfinished vertical system.
Im going to update the project in this weekend when i filp it to 12/12 and build another one next to the first one.

okay slowly i get it ... your system looks more like something i would want.

the more i read the more people say its just a not working system!
your pipe system looks good ... but why dont you turn the pipe 45° towards the lamp? should be alot more effective since the pipes dont get too much heat and the plants use more light ...

some k+ for ya!

 

[Jack Bensa]

okay slowly i get it ... your system looks more like something i would want.

the more i read the more people say its just a not working system!
your pipe system looks good ... but why dont you turn the pipe 45° towards the lamp? should be alot more effective since the pipes dont get too much heat and the plants use more light ...

some k+ for ya!

In that small scale its easier to build and there is more space inside for me to crawl there for maintenance.And the plants grow octagonal shape so it really dont matter that much.Bigger plants on the corners and smaller one betweens.And you veg them week or month.Its up to you and amount of plants.Also you can grow them longer up to another level just make them grow behind those tubes.So there is quite many ways to grow in that system.

 

[Teeg420]

For a coli 3000 is just for the modules, doesn't include ballast, bulbs, hoods, pump, media, fans, inline fans and so forth. look into spending an easy 6K if you want co2 with temp control etc.

I like sunny dogs vert pretty simple and self contained. As well as jack bensa's he has a great setup.

For ease I would recomend making a cab or buying a hut and add shelves with a cool tube.

The 45 degree angle in my experience is useless the plants end up just growing towards the bulb whether there angled or not.

Its all about making it easier for you to work on them i like the pot idea so you can pull em out and prune them. Because once you have a full canopy you can forget about getting in there and trimming just too little space. Unless you incorporate a way for it to open up like the hydrogon, i mean you could do it to almost any set up by adding wheels or a furniture dolly. In my vert setup my girls are 8" - 12" from the cool tube no burning haha. Northern farmers set up is also great but i feel you dont cover as much space as you would if growing in a circular pattern. Plus when you stack bulbs on top one another i feel you get that overlapping light coverage which in turn good for the girls.

Some things are worth buying and some are worth diying, its up too you. Like 00420 said by the time you finish building it ill be 2 - 4 weeks in already, depending on your dedication and work ethic.

There are so many ways you can about it, just what is gonna work well in your environment and your how much you want to spend.

Vert is the way of the future, good luck and grow TUFF!

 

[Teeg420]

The phototron great idea but it should be the other way around the lights should be in the center and plants around it. So you are utilizing all 360 degrees of the bulb.

 

[Teeg420]

stke fingas - how do you prune the fan leaves that block the budsites on your setup?

 

[magiccannabus]

what gr./w do you reach? what strains do you grow?
perpetual makes lots of sense ofcourse
what dou you think you spend on the system?

My gr./w has yet to be determined, but it could be better to be honest. I had a light leak this time around. My biggest plant is going to yield well for it's 1/4 of the cabinet, but I'll put it in my diary whenever she chooses to finish.

I think all together on both sides it was about 250-300 dollars, and that includes lights, Stanley blower, and the false wall, vent fixtures, ducts, etc.. In the future I hope to put at least one or two lights up at the top when I build version 2.0(gonna build two of them side by side in another room, so one runs while the other is off, creating a steady draw 24/7). I may either put some CFL up there, short tubes, or maybe even a small HID. Who knows. Seems to be working without it though.

Anyway, I'm growing Trainwreck X Colombian Gold, Trainwreck X Sour Diesel(2 of them), Purple Haze, and I just put HTC North #1 into flower yesterday. Other than that light leak through the ventilation system, things have been going well. Now that it's fixed I think they're finally deciding to finish.

The phototron great idea but it should be the other way around the lights should be in the center and plants around it. So you are utilizing all 360 degrees of the bulb.

While you do lose some light to the reflector, it's minimal, and surrounding the plants produces a more uniform product, top to bottom. Ideally you'd both surround the plants, and put tubes in the middle.

 

[stke_fingas]

my scrog netting is 4 sections, each with 2 plants and about 2.5 gal of coco. i used 6" duct clamps as a guide for each section. they come out of the cab without messing with the light. takes me about 2 min to empty the cab as a safety feature i planned on, just so happens to work well for training/trimming.

i veg for 3 weeks in my cab. 2 of them are in large plastic cups(gas store fountain drink 64oz type cup) and topped. transplant then 1 week to fill out a little more. if you have a small veg area these cups are easy to cram right up next to each other. one week of veg in the flower room is not much on a 8-9 week cycle.

i'm going to do the same thing i got now with 48plants 3week veg 2x600w lights and a darkroom tent 5x5'. the canopy will be 5x12.5' and as full as my cab! it would be easy to see a yield in the 2+gpw with the right cut. my screens are very filled on the bubba half but the skush is still filling in new growth not maturing yet.

i'm stoned and just typing... thanks for reading if you got to this point. lol

 

[Mr.Jones]

My gr./w has yet to be determined, but it could be better to be honest. I had a light leak this time around. My biggest plant is going to yield well for it's 1/4 of the cabinet, but I'll put it in my diary whenever she chooses to finish.

I think all together on both sides it was about 250-300 dollars, and that includes lights, Stanley blower, and the false wall, vent fixtures, ducts, etc.. In the future I hope to put at least one or two lights up at the top when I build version 2.0(gonna build two of them side by side in another room, so one runs while the other is off, creating a steady draw 24/7). I may either put some CFL up there, short tubes, or maybe even a small HID. Who knows. Seems to be working without it though.

Anyway, I'm growing Trainwreck X Colombian Gold, Trainwreck X Sour Diesel(2 of them), Purple Haze, and I just put HTC North #1 into flower yesterday. Other than that light leak through the ventilation system, things have been going well. Now that it's fixed I think they're finally deciding to finish.



While you do lose some light to the reflector, it's minimal, and surrounding the plants produces a more uniform product, top to bottom. Ideally you'd both surround the plants, and put tubes in the middle.

300 is pretty cheap!
your strains sound killer ... i would give the o-haze a try
i love how your plants just grow straight up like natural and still get vertical light - i guess you could reach some good yields!

my scrog netting is 4 sections, each with 2 plants and about 2.5 gal of coco. i used 6" duct clamps as a guide for each section. they come out of the cab without messing with the light. takes me about 2 min to empty the cab as a safety feature i planned on, just so happens to work well for training/trimming.

i veg for 3 weeks in my cab. 2 of them are in large plastic cups(gas store fountain drink 64oz type cup) and topped. transplant then 1 week to fill out a little more. if you have a small veg area these cups are easy to cram right up next to each other. one week of veg in the flower room is not much on a 8-9 week cycle.

i'm going to do the same thing i got now with 48plants 3week veg 2x600w lights and a darkroom tent 5x5'. the canopy will be 5x12.5' and as full as my cab! it would be easy to see a yield in the 2+gpw with the right cut. my screens are very filled on the bubba half but the skush is still filling in new growth not maturing yet.

i'm stoned and just typing... thanks for reading if you got to this point. lol

haha thanx for the answer - its not too bad
2 or more gr./w is what im lookin for ...


i just kept on thinking yesterday and i had an idea:

how about building something like the growtower but in shape of an oktagon - this would have lots of advantages because it would be easy to have walls which can be just removable - you could just work with the system like a flat one and still have all the advantages of a vertical system ... maybe it is just the same like:

up like the hydrogon

there could be 8 walls 60cmx100cm and containing 15 plants - so havin all over about 120 plants ... the whole thing about 120cm heigh and diametre ...

what dou you think ... would work like stke_fingas scrog system but with just one week of veg ... ?

 

[Jack Bensa]

Im sorry but i think 2g/w or more is quite unrealictic goal.
You could get up to 1.5g/w but over that its much harder.

 

[Mr.Jones]

Im sorry but i think 2g/w or more is quite unrealictic goal.
You could get up to 1.5g/w but over that its much harder.

im not sure about that - i mean in a flat system the very high yielding strains already can be over 1gr./w ... so vertical is a more effective system so it defently should be possible to push it at least over 1.5gr./w

ive read reports about the pi-rack and the owner wrote that he is yielding usually between 1.5-2.0gr./w ...

im not saying that my goal is to get the 1.5gr./w in my first run - i would be happy to break even ... more would be nice too

 

[buddymate]

There is a system called I think the ballerina?I either saw it at the Wembley Hemp expo in London,or saw it advertised in Weed World

 

[Mr.Jones]

There is a system called I think the ballerina?I either saw it at the Wembley Hemp expo in London,or saw it advertised in Weed World

can you remember how large it was? or any data?

 

[buddymate]

I cant mate to be honest,I do remember it had a massive plant-number,somewhere between 350-500 but I was at the expo looking at other things,I wish I had paid more attention now,they had an omega garden etc there as well on the same stand.

 

[alphacat]

Surprised the Czechs haven't been mentioned yet...

G_man and Prenda dialed in a system using two big tubs, one upside down on top of the other, and a variety of wattages (400 & 150HPS were the ones I remember, I think...)

Anyway-

Aside from the now MIA Barrel of Green guy, it's totally amazing to me that Stcke Fingas is the only other person who's really put any effort (that's been seen on this board) into this potentially near-perfect system. Big large fuckin' props to you, Stcke.

Other folks on here are close - the garbage can grows with a horizontal flat scrog that could be producing at least twice as big a bud canopy; the 'pod' grow w/ the plant in the center and lined w/ vertical fluoro tubes - but none of them take advantage of the beautiful ergonomic simplicity of the cylindrical v-scrog or arena-style grow... NO WASTED LIGHT. At least, none compared to flat-plane setups. I also think fluoros - big 105 watters or something like that - have unexplored potential here since penetration is less of an issue... the plant's right next to the light.

Sure there's different variables to consider. A growroom gets hot so wouldn't a miniature tubular grow room get hotter quicker? As with any scalable system, you just have to know where to tweak it because not everything is an easy, predictable curve.

In small systems, one of the biggest variables is ventilation; just like in a miniature ecosystem everything tends to happen faster time-wise, or in aquaria where smaller tanks mean a higher filtration flowrate, in a small enclosed vertical grow like this ventilation serves to exhaust bulb heat faster than it can accumulate [hopefully] as well as keeping the plants healthy with oxygen, CO2, etc. It's worth noting that it's also important to have fairly clean air inflow too.

This is one setup that encourages soil a little more, but hydro is do-able too... ya just have to mind those scalable variables like before. The smaller the reservoir, the faster the pH change - so external res is preferable if going hydro. SWC (mediumless) is also preferable for a few reasons, mainly to simplify everything.

The last consideration is strain, since stinky, stretchy, long_finishers are not your friend with this kind of setup. Stretchy veggers are OK as long as they fill in during flower.

 

[Me2]

Mr Jones
An octagon made up of eight 600 x 1000 flat panels would be 5ft in diameter on the inside, a true circle is 4ft. Wouldn`t be good to build something to find it doesn`t fit in the space :wink:
A hexagon would fit the bill, 6 panels at 600 will give you the 1200 inner diameter.