Trump thread part 2 (Or anything else we want to talk about that's ridiculous in politics today)

[HempKat]

Hey has anyone been following the news story about the 4 Amweicans that got kidnapped in Mexico and where two were killed and the other two p;us the bodies of the two dead ones were recovered a day or two later? I'm wondering if anyone else senses something fishy? What I'm getting at is not too long agpo Trump was advocating the idea of if he was President again he would consider sending in our military to take out the cartels. Obviously that's an idea that's crazy on a number of levels not the least of which is that no matter how good a cause it might seem on paper if we did that we would essentially be invading a sovereign neighbor country and as such it would be no different then Russia invading Ukraine to take out Nazis. Of course no real support for such an action came from that. Then not long after, this incident happens and the next thing you know there were now people willing to send in military forces to deal with the cartels. Does anyone else think that someone might have been trying to help create the support for Trump's plan? From what I heard reported they thing the kidnappers were actually targeting someone else who was supposedly driving in a white vehicle similar to the ones these Americans were in and they just grabbed the wrong vehicle. It would have been a relatively simple thing to manipulate by alerting the kidnappers about the wrong vehicle and then just allowing things to progress from there in the way it most likely would and ultimately did.

 

[Zeez]

The lady getting cosmetic surgery accompanied by three guys. The story just didn't fit the picture.

 

[HempKat]

The lady getting cosmetic surgery accompanied by three guys. The story just didn't fit the picture.

Oh it was three guys? For some reason I had the om[ression it was two guys and another girl. Why I thought that I can't say because the picture I saw was of just the man and woman who survived. I guess I just figured two couples seemed more logical? It seems to have gotten weirder though, now there is a letter from the Cartel apologizing and claiming the cartel members involved acted on their own and in violation of the cartels rules against harming innocents. They sacrificed one member who guarded them until the rescue for showed and that one guard was arrested and the cartel vows to hold all others involved accountable. As if we're going to trust the word of a Mexican drug cartel. There aparently as a 5th American who went for the trip but got out at the border because he/she lacked the documentation to cross. I wonder if that person was the one who fed the information to the cartel? They say it was mistaken identity but these people were attacked as soon as the entered the city which was just across the US/Mexico border. It was either a setup or they had amazingly bad luck to just happen to cross the border into a town where at that moment the cartel happened to be watching and waiting for a similar vehicle. It is odd when you hear at first that three men were with the woman seeking the procedure but the latest reporting says they were all long time childhood friends and that the two additional men were just along for the adventure and to take turns driving during the long trip from South Carolina. That makes it somewhat believable but then the 5th person going along without proper docu,emtation seems rather sketch, 4 people could have shared the driving just as easy so the 5th person seems really out of place. I know I would rather pass on such a trip rather then have to get out in a strange town in Texas, miles from home and wait for friends to come back from Mexico to pick me up. Then again the whole thing is so bizarre it just could have been a bunch of fairly stupid people?

What's really puzzling me now is this supposed letter from the cartel apologizing. This cartel is so unorganized that their members just randomly target other people even iif the intended target wasn't this group of Americans? Would the cartel still be apologizing and punishing some of their members if the kidnappers had gotten the right target? Also what cartel has a policy to never harm innocents and apologizes when they do? The impression I've had of these cartels up to this point is if you are innocent then it's still your fault for getting in the way. It's still all very fishy and the idea of someone setting up a false flag to trigger American outrage still seems like the best fir for what actually happened.

Amid mounting security tensions, Mexico's president says fentanyl is a U.S. issue

Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador lashes out at Republicans who want to send U.S. troops, telling them to solve the U.S. fentanyl problem.

www.latimes.com

 

[Zeez]

Oh it was three guys? For some reason I had the om[ression it was two guys and another girl. Why I thought that I can't say because the picture I saw was of just the man and woman who survived. I guess I just figured two couples seemed more logical? It seems to have gotten weirder though, now there is a letter from the Cartel apologizing and claiming the cartel members involved acted on their own and in violation of the cartels rules against harming innocents. They sacrificed one member who guarded them until the rescue for showed and that one guard was arrested and the cartel vows to hold all others involved accountable. As if we're going to trust the word of a Mexican drug cartel. There aparently as a 5th American who went for the trip but got out at the border because he/she lacked the documentation to cross. I wonder if that person was the one who fed the information to the cartel? They say it was mistaken identity but these people were attacked as soon as the entered the city which was just across the US/Mexico border. It was either a setup or they had amazingly bad luck to just happen to cross the border into a town where at that moment the cartel happened to be watching and waiting for a similar vehicle. It is odd when you hear at first that three men were with the woman seeking the procedure but the latest reporting says they were all long time childhood friends and that the two additional men were just along for the adventure and to take turns driving during the long trip from South Carolina. That makes it somewhat believable but then the 5th person going along without proper docu,emtation seems rather sketch, 4 people could have shared the driving just as easy so the 5th person seems really out of place. I know I would rather pass on such a trip rather then have to get out in a strange town in Texas, miles from home and wait for friends to come back from Mexico to pick me up. Then again the whole thing is so bizarre it just could have been a bunch of fairly stupid people?

What's really puzzling me now is this supposed letter from the cartel apologizing. This cartel is so unorganized that their members just randomly target other people even iif the intended target wasn't this group of Americans? Would the cartel still be apologizing and punishing some of their members if the kidnappers had gotten the right target? Also what cartel has a policy to never harm innocents and apologizes when they do? The impression I've had of these cartels up to this point is if you are innocent then it's still your fault for getting in the way. It's still all very fishy and the idea of someone setting up a false flag to trigger American outrage still seems like the best fir for what actually happened.

Amid mounting security tensions, Mexico's president says fentanyl is a U.S. issue

Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador lashes out at Republicans who want to send U.S. troops, telling them to solve the U.S. fentanyl problem.

www.latimes.com

I wouldn't give the cartels too much credit. The border towns are real shit holes and third world free for alls. The yearly death tolls are staggering with many unnoticed. It's incredible that more Americans aren't killed there due to lawlessness and anyone with a few bucks in their pockets is at risk. Too bad, some, like Juarez, used to be kind of fun if you knew your way around.

My comment was a little sarcastic. The woman didn't look like plastic surgery would help and there may be another reason why they there.

 

[HempKat]

I wouldn't give the cartels too much credit. The border towns are real shit holes and third world free for alls. The yearly death tolls are staggering with many unnoticed. It's incredible that more Americans aren't killed there due to lawlessness and anyone with a few bucks in their pockets is at risk. Too bad, some, like Juarez, used to be kind of fun if you knew your way around.

My comment was a little sarcastic. The woman didn't look like plastic surgery would help and there may be another reason why they there.

Oh I'm not giving the cartels any credit, not for doing the right thing anyway. I don't buy their apology for a second. At least not as a way of saying they are a nice well behaved cartel that doesn;t harm innocnts. Thanks to the usual loud mouth maniacs in the House of Representatives the suggestion of the US sending in troops to clean up the cartels is likely well known. I think that cartel was expecting very different people in that /suv when they took the Americans and they likely smelled the same fish I'm smelling and thought it was a setup to justify us sending in American troops. I'm not saying they're afraid of a fight but they are smart enough to know they don't stand a chance against our full military might and so they cooked up that apology and sacrificed a few low level members to try to pacify things before they heated up any more then they already were. I've seen reports on the incident ftom about a dozen different media sources and the reason for those Americans being there seems legit. Medical tourism is a thriving thing south of the border and many other places in the world with Americans flocking to such places to get services that they either can't get her or get services much cheaper. So the reason they were there seems valid. What doesn't seem valid is the cartel attacking them the moment they arrived. Now if they had been walking around town making it clear they were Americans and flashing money then sure, I can see them getting attacked. According to the reporting though they hadn't even left their vehicle yet. Plus the money behind all this medical tourism lkely is part of the many things the cartels control so it doesn't make sense for them to attack customers unless they really did think they were someone else. The one question that remains, that none of the sources reporting on it have answered is how did the cartel come to believe there were other targets that they might have wanted, in that vehicle? I know this might seem far fetched but those people came from South Carolina which is Lindsey Grahams state and he is one of the republican voices in support of sending troops in to clean up the cartel problem. Is it possible he arranged some how to get word to the cartel someone they wanted was in that vehicle. I know he seems like a moron and something like that might be beyond him but he lies so much how can we really be sure of who he is or what depths he would sinkl to?

 

[Zeez]

We'll never send military into Mexico. We give them money to beef up the federales and much of that goes right into the pockets of a chosen few. Some goes to the policia and some goes to buy paramilitary equipment for the cops after the big kickbacks are arranged. It's a different system there. Here, money goes into the federal government and back out to the appropriate agencies. There, it's more of the direct payment method. The drug lords pay off politicians and cops for protection and to make sure the Americans don't come in and interfere. I've been shaken down by cops in Mexico. It's more like a business transaction, but paying too much or too little is considered an insult.

I'm predicting the first indictment to drop this week.

 

[armedoldhippy]

killing Americans is against their rules. they are free to kill all of the Mexican citizens they want in Mexico. killing American citizens in Mexico can -really- fuck them up. that's why they gave up the poor bastards that (they claim) were the shooters. we'll never know. it's not like those guys are gonna confess or anything...well, they MIGHT. i understand that Mexican LEO has a different set of rules they go by than we use in the US.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Pay for your justice is the MO of either country....

 

[HempKat]

Pay for your justice is the MO of either country....

Yeah but the difference is where and who you pay for the justice. Here in the US it's typically after people have been arrested and you pay the lawyers. In Mexico it's more before the crime is commtted and you pay LEO to either protect you or look the other way. I'm pretty sure in Mexico Americans are only left alone if they're smart enough to stay out of the way. Americans do enjoy more protection then the average Mexican but only because most Americans there are either tourists or Ex-Pats looking to live a better life and either way they represent money for the local economy. To harm them is to steal from yourself potentially. Still sometimes things happen. I don't remember the circumstances but I remember not too long ago there were Mormon Americans living there that were targeted by a cartel. They lived in their own compond and were fairly safe as long as they stayed in their compond but in the case I'm remembering I believe they were traveling when they were gunned down. Of course back then American politicians weren't talking about sending US troops in to clean up the cartels so since that is somethingns being suggested these days those Mormons might have faired better if what happened to them was more recent.

 

[HempKat]

I recently say a news report where they were basically complaining about how slow the process has been, even though it looks like indictments might happen any day now. With some people thinking Trump might be successful with his plan to delay things due to his attempts to run for office again. Of course in that discussion it was also mentionedabout the types of anger and protests that might erupt in the public should Trump be indicted and/or worse yet convicted and sentenced.

This got me wonddering to myself what would be worse in terms of public outrage and potential long term impacts between Trump avoiding and accountability or not avoiding it? So I thought it might be interesting to take a poll here and see what everyone else thinks?

Personally my take is that doing nothing and letting Trump avoid accountibility will be way worse. First of all the number of people that might be enraged by no accountibility by far outnumbers the number of Trump's core base that might be upset if he is finally held accountible and if they acted on that anger like Trump's base did on Jan 6th whatever happens would be so much greater by comparisson that it would make Jan 6th look like nothing much.

 

[armedoldhippy]

but in the case I'm remembering I believe they were traveling when they were gunned down.

cartel gunmen are more likely to make a mistake when they see folks in a good car driving. if they mistake you for DEA or members of a rival gang, it could go bad fast. tourists don't want to be kidnapped obviously, and may try to run for it, which may trigger gunfire. it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation... i wouldn't go to Mexico these days for any reason.

 

[armedoldhippy]

Personally my take is that doing nothing and letting Trump avoid accountibility will be way worse

i take it just as you do. i'd rather lynch him as a warning to anyone that thought he was on the right track.

 

[HempKat]

i take it just as you do. i'd rather lynch him as a warning to anyone that thought he was on the right track.

Yeah that's my fear especially with so many of these knuckleheads in our latest congress trying their hardest to be just like him.

 

[Zeez]

Cohen is singing like a canary this morning as they get ready to drop the hammer.

 

[GOT_BUD?]

Cohen is singing like a canary this morning as they get ready to drop the hammer.

Again? That's why he quit last time because he had testified a year earlier and nothing had happened.

 

[armedoldhippy]

Again? That's why he quit last time because he had testified a year earlier and nothing had happened.

last time was at a grand jury, i think. they drag ass, never in a hurry. he's testifying in an actual trial now. it won't be long before he knows if it made a difference.

 

[Zeez]

I like the way they say he's got credibility issues.
He was Chumps fixer and did time for it. Of course he's no Eagle Scout. He's a f'n criminal like Chump.

 

[armedoldhippy]

last time was at a grand jury, i think. they drag ass, never in a hurry. he's testifying in an actual trial now. it won't be long before he knows if it made a difference.

i was WRONG. mea culpa. he is in front of a different grand jury. apologies all around.

 

[unclefishstick]

 

[GOT_BUD?]

I recently learned that the person credited with labelling the "mainstream media" was Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's propagandist.