and then kill himself. or allow someone else to. the ORIGINAL Jesus loved us that much...why wouldn't the ORANGE one ?
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Trump thread part 2 (Or anything else we want to talk about that's ridiculous in politics today)
- Thread starter GOT_BUD?
- Start date
I gotta say, I'm really disappointed in our Attorney General. I get that he's bending over backwards to not be seen as a pawn of the President the way Bill Barr was to Trump, but there comes a point where I would like to see him defy Trump and the MAGA Right if for no other reason then to get revenge for the way Trump and McConnell screwed him out of being a Supreme Court Justice appointed by Obama. What I'm talking about Specifically is the way he ddn't revew and efit the report that the Special Prosecutor who Investigated Biden for the classified documents found in his posession not long after they found what Trump had stashed at Mar-A-Lardo. He should have reviewed and edited the Special Prosecutor's report the way Barr reviewed and edited the report from Mueller to make it seem like less was found then was found and thereby changed the whole tone of the report. Attorney General Merrick Garland had already done enough to show he didn't have his thumb on the scale by allowing the Special Prosecutor he did who was a Trump appointed holdover. He wouldn't have had to edit it much since the bottomline was that he didn't find enough to Prosecute Biden but all the negatve stuff that had nothing to do with the investigation, like calling Binden a sympathetic old man with memory issues was complete BS.
I mean I get why the Special Prosecutor felt he had to put that in there. He likely figured Trump wouldn't be very happy with him for not reccomending Biden for prosecution so he had to give Trump something. It just pisses me off that Garland is always trying to be this righteous AG rather then using the same kind of Tactics Trump used thru Bill Barr with the Mueller report.
I mean I get why the Special Prosecutor felt he had to put that in there. He likely figured Trump wouldn't be very happy with him for not reccomending Biden for prosecution so he had to give Trump something. It just pisses me off that Garland is always trying to be this righteous AG rather then using the same kind of Tactics Trump used thru Bill Barr with the Mueller report.
Do I understand that you are saying that AG Garland should behave in the same way that you found repugnant when AG Barr did?
Who needs a righteous Attorney General after all?
This is where we are.
Well not really, I mean yes I did technically say that but it's born of frustration and so I'm looking at it more like, okay if they're going to play hard ball why can't we? Plus it's not really an apples to apples thing. Barr edited the Mueller report to make it reflect someething it didn't really reflect. What I'm saying Garland should have done was edited out the inappropriate stuff that had nothing to do with the investigation but had the effect of helping to keep the image alive that Biden is just old and incompetent. Which I suspect the Special Prosecutor only put that stuff in because he knew that his conclusion to not prosecute Biden was going to anger Trump and so he wanted to put something in the report that would please Trump.
See what Barr did was alter the Mueller report to make it sound like Mueller was exhonerating Trump, when in fact he was acknowledging there were things there that could be prosecuted but since the unwritten rule was to not indict a sitting President there was nothing that could be done at that time. Now if the Special Prosecutor had found there was enough to prosecute Biden but was letting it go because Biden was a sitting President and I was suggesting Garland should have edited it to make Biden sound innocent when he wasn't, then your comparison would make more sense.
We/They Us/Them
The double edged sword of the Special Prosecutor came out. The 'state of mind' came into play in the investigation. Special Prosecutor determined from interviews with Biden that he was unable to bring charges because Biden's state of mind was not competent. It was not because Biden is the sitting President. The Special Prosecutor determined that Biden didn't have the mental capacity to remember salient facts regarding his possession of classified documents.
No charges does not mean innocence, and the Special Prosecutor's Report explained why no charges were filed. Since the 80s the Reports have been published in the pursuit of transparency. Do you think Garland had any choice but to release the report?
The double edged sword of the Special Prosecutor came out. The 'state of mind' came into play in the investigation. Special Prosecutor determined from interviews with Biden that he was unable to bring charges because Biden's state of mind was not competent. It was not because Biden is the sitting President. The Special Prosecutor determined that Biden didn't have the mental capacity to remember salient facts regarding his possession of classified documents.
No charges does not mean innocence, and the Special Prosecutor's Report explained why no charges were filed. Since the 80s the Reports have been published in the pursuit of transparency. Do you think Garland had any choice but to release the report?
fighting fire with fire just burns down more shit that we might need.
that is HIS opinion, others may vary. anybody out there recall El Chumpo and numerous co-conspirators not "recalling" anything when questioned? don't recall THEM being classified as "not competent"......liars maybe, but "not competent ?" let's have both Biden and Trump extensively questioned on history, the Constitution, the law, and ethics by a non-partisan panel of mental health professionals and see what they say.
He had the same choice that Barr did to review them ahead of time and craft a letter interpreting the report so as to describe the results in a different light then what was intended by the report.
Kind of like how you are doing. Although perhaps you read all 325 pages of the report and are aware of things that have not been reported such as the claim that Biden was not charged because his mind was found to be not competent. Remembering details over a period that spanned over 40 years does not mean a person is incompetent. The average person struggles to remember foods they ate the prvious day or earlier in the week, I wouldn't presume to interpret that as the average person is incompetent. One of the more talked about points that was used to judge Biden's memory was the date of when his son died. I'm not sure how that is a salient fact to Biden's possession of classified documents. Another point worth noting is a good bit of what was determined to be classified were Biden's own handwritten notes because in thos notes he mentioned things that wer determinned to be classified. Taking home one's own hadwritten notes is quite different from taking home documents that are marked as classified. Not to say that means the information wasn''t classified but it is quite understandable that a person might not remember every detail written down in a journal or a diary to be able to say to themselves, "oh I wrote down something in there that was classified I better not take that home with me". Especially if the entry was weeks, months or possibly even years old.
What I heard reported and what I read for myself from scanning thru the report is that the reason Biden was not charged was, "we conclude that the evidence does not establish Mr. Biden's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt." Also I'm sure that a significant reason why Biden, just like Pence wasn't charged was because when they became aware that they were in possession of classified documents they both immediately contact the proper authorities to make them aware and then cooperated fully with allowing a thorough search to be done to make sure all classified material was recovered. While Trump on the other hand is well known to have ignored a subpoena, forcing a search warrent and engaged in moving hiding, destroying evidence of obstruction and having one of his lawyers falsely attest to all material having been returned even though he knew they had not all been returned.
The most salacious detail used to cast a negative impression on Biden was the claim that he did not correctly remember when his son died. I know from my own personal experiences that remembering or not remembering a specific date of when a loved one dies is not a good measure of that person's memory, a lot depends on how a person thinks about things and organizings things in their mind. Some people are better about remembering specific dates and yet might not be able to recall specific details of what was going on at the time. In my case my mother passed away a few years back, I can't quickly recall upon questioning what date or even year she passed and yet I can recall specific details about what happen just a few days before she passed, what discussions were had. I can also remember where I was when I learned she had passed and details about how I was informed and who informed me. Given time I can piece together when she passed because I knew her age when she passed and therefore can figure out the year of her passing. Also if I was in the same situation as Biden, being questioned about things I might have been involved in over a period of 40 years where I might have handled classified documents, and then someone asked when my Mother died (which had nothing to do with classified documents) I likely would have been so caught off guard by such a personal and unrelated question that it might impede my memory of the question being asked.
The point all being that to mention these things and color it with his opinion of what it all meant was inappropriate to include in the report the way it was especially given how much emphasis has been made over Biden's age and what it means and how that hes been something that has caused many people to question his fitness for office. I mean if he's guilty of something and that guilt can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt so be it, ask yourself this though, when have you ever heard of someone that could be proven guilty, being let off the hook simply because they couldn't remember deatails of the crime?
Yeah I know, like I said though I was feeling frustrated at the time when I said that. Having had time to think it all thru and calm down a bit, I'm glad that the current administration not only doesn't behave like the previous administration but also makes a sincere effort to not even remotely seem to behave the same way. My feelings were also somewhat colored by the seemingly favorable direction SCOTUS is leaning in Trumps favor regarding the 14th Amendment Section 3. It makes me wonder how they'll decide on the issue of Presidential Immunity and what that might mean for the country going forward, especially if Trump pulls off what I still feel is impssible and gets himdelf re-rkected.
i think the Supremes will probably rule AGAINST the Chump on immunity, keep him on the ballot nation-wide, and then wash their hands of him when he comes crying after losing to Biden again. i don't see any other way forward for them that does not completely destroy any perceived legitimacy they might still possess in the eyes of the general public.
i don't see that happening. myself. he's not picking up any new voters. anyone that thought he had ANY good qualities voted for him last time, and he got slaughtered. the GOP has repeatedly kicked themselves in the groin with women, people of ANY color besides lily-white, educated/young voters, independents, etc. i'm sure there will be a few independents swing his way over economic policy differences, but that's going to be an inconsequential % of voters IMHO. i don't know a soul that liked Biden LAST time, but i've heard none of them say "Biden's too old, i'm going with The Chump this time. he's a criminal & dangerous to our freedoms and way of life, but i can live with that..."
Yeah that's what all the legal "exprts" are saying and that does seem to make the most sense logically and I would have been a bit more certain a few days ago but after hearing how the arguments went the other day now have some doubts. Hopefully though they realize it would be a colossal mistake for them to rule in Trumps favor because you know sooner or later hewould come after them the moment they didn't support his dictatorial whims. Plus like you said for them to rule in Trumps favor will also destroy all percieved legitimacy.
Again, deep down I feel the same way but all this doubt is, that we've come all this way, Trump iss not in jail and even if the SCOTUS rules against him on immunity they could delay it long enough to keep all but the Stormy Daniel's Hush Money case from going to trial before the election. I would also feel better if I heard more people recognizing all the good Biden's accomplished and less people making a big deal over his gaffs he makes when he speaks. Biden has had a long hstory of making verbal gaffs. I remeber political pundits joking about it back during the couple of times he ran for President before the Obama years Of course back then nobody thought it was related to his age, it was just something that kept happening to him. You could always tell what he actually meant to say but it was enough to still cause him to lose points and end up shutting down his campaign. Iremember also when Obama picked him for VP there was a pundit that acknowledged he was a good pick because of all his foreign policy experience (which is what Obama lacked most) but then whoever this pundit was said something to the effect of "at least as VP he won't have ro speak as much".i don't see that happening. myself. he's not picking up any new voters. anyone that thought he had ANY good qualities voted for him last time, and he got slaughtered. the GOP has repeatedly kicked themselves in the groin with women, people of ANY color besides lily-white, educated/young voters, independents, etc. i'm sure there will be a few independents swing his way over economic policy differences, but that's going to be an inconsequential % of voters IMHO. i don't know a soul that liked Biden LAST time, but i've heard none of them say "Biden's too old, i'm going with The Chump this time. he's a criminal & dangerous to our freedoms and way of life, but i can live with that..."
Trump: "You gotta pay your bills."
Trump: "Not paying taxes makes me smart."
Trump: "Not paying taxes makes me smart."
This is where I point out that you obviously did not read the report or get your "news" regarding the report from someone who wasn't a partisan hack.
If you had the report, you would have quickly discovered that the entire report was in fact a political hatchet job that most news outlet chose to ignore pertinent details included in the report. Like the complete lack of evidence that it was Joe Biden who put the documents into that box. Or that he had shared them with anyone.
The Real “Robert Hur Report” (Versus What You Read in the News): How the Special Counsel report has been misinterpreted
"What the Hur report actually says is there is insufficient evidence of criminality, innocent explanations for the conduct, and affirmative evidence that Biden did not willfully withhold classified documents."
www.justsecurity.org
Garland is a real fucking problem if he's so concerned about seeming impartial he's willing to let the inmates run the asylum.
Also Trump : Russia should attack NATO nations who don't pay for NATO Security.
I had not read all 388 pages of the report. Still have not but I am getting there.
There were plenty of claims of "evidence" that I read about that was not "evidence" .
You're right, @HempKat.
I should have stopped reading on Page 5 which are the first two sentences of Hur's report.
"I'm 'well-meaning' and I'm 'an elderly man' and I know what the hell I'm doing," Biden told reporters. "I've been president and I put this country back on its feet. I don't need his recommendation."
That's pretty good.
Well in all fairness, given the way Hur chose to write the report, calling things evidence of willful intent that actually weren't evidence of willful intent. I can certainly understand how someone skimming thru the report as most people would do with a report that large, could walk away with the wrong idea. It would all come down to which pages the individual chose to skim and which ones they chose to skip.
Of course the question that I'm sure is on many peoples minds is why exactly did he choose to write it the way he did knowing that it might have been reviewed and withheld or presented in a way like Barr did with the Mueller report? Also why did he choose to add gratuitus unrelated opinions that were clearly in contradiction to long standing guidelines followed by the DOJ for such reports released during an election year? I heard it said that in the near future Mr. Hur will be question in person before Congress about the report. I wonder if anyone will ask him those questions or something very similar?
I have my own opinion that I stated already that he wrote it that way for an audience of one, Trump, but I have nothing to back that up not even someone in the media suggesting that was the reason. Oh well we'll find out I suppose when he goes before Congress?
What really sucks id that the damage is done and even though a careful reading of the report reveals there was no actual evidence millions will just run with the impressions they got from the initial reportings. This all feels so very much llike 2016 and Comey's unsolicited public report of Hillary Clinton.
Yeah that's pretty good but you know as well as I do that most people will just dismiss that with something like, "Well of course Biden would say that." I guess my frustration about all this comes from the fact that while I'm not as old as Biden I'm getting old enough that I'm starting to feel the way people that are younger start to look at older people differently and that's just how it is and there really isn't much anyone can do about it.
RickLafleur
Well-known member
The political atmosphere is so toxic it’s impossible for Biden to run on his record. Too many are going to forget about it and gripe about his age.
Meanwhile a Labradoodle would be a better choice than the alternative.
Meanwhile a Labradoodle would be a better choice than the alternative.
