Trump thread part 2 (Or anything else we want to talk about that's ridiculous in politics today)

[EastCoastGambit]

I can't tell if you're actually a Trump fan who thinks you can fool everyone here by calling Trump "a classless pathetic loser" or if you're just one of younger Gen Z voters who can't see beyond the latest political news of America's reaction to What's going on in Gaza? Because with the exception of those two groups (Trump Cult members and Gen Z), no other rational voters think the a match up with Biden will be an easy path to re-election for Trump. By every measure there is Biden has been a far better President for the US then Trump I meaan the only thing that Trump has got right about Biden is that he trips over his words a lot when speaking, which is something he's had troubl wth for most of his life due to growing up with a bas stutter. Fortunately though, how good a President is, isn't judge by how good his speeches are but rather how good his accomplishments are and by every measure imaginable Biden has way outclassed Trump in accomplishments. The only reason Biden doesn't seem as good a president as he should seem is because Trump left the country in such a deep hole that Biden has had to dig us out from that it makes his successes seem less mazing then they actually were/are. I mean on just the economy alone, under Biden the US has gone from surely falling into a terrible recession to where it's now predicted there won't be a recession and where the economy hasn't looked this good since the 60's.

Its the perception of Biden that is the issue. While the economy is fairing slightly better I am certainly not a fan of either Biden or Trump. Democrats is general have been fairly disappointing. Perhaps there are more Biden voters than MAGA nutjobs; however, polling shows many independents perceive Biden to be doing a bad job, because he doesn't present well (beyond his speech impediment) Biden seems to be in hiding which is not a good look for a leader. The conservatives are gaining more and more traction throughout almost all of rural America and Dems like Clinton and Biden are kind of tone deaf to the issues facing middle class Americans.

To be honest I am more left of Democrat and therefore do not associate myself as one. Certainly not Gen Z though you seem to have a need to label and size people up. I'm in my 40's and am more of a retired radical. The pace of change in this nation is too slow for the problems we are facing. Wealth is funneled from the masses to the few in a rigged system and the politicians of both parties, who are openly for sale, could give a shit less about the average American. They use fear tactics and culture war to harvest votes but even with control of both the House and Senate the Dems barely do anything really progressive because their true loyalty is to big corporate interests, bankers, and the military industrial complex. Hence why they conspired destroyed Bernie as a viable candidate corruptly.

Can Trump beat Biden, wouldn't surprise me. He is polling higher if you believe that nonsense. So that is why I feel like Biden should step aside because a stronger than Biden candidate vs. Trump would pretty much be guaranteed to win. Trump must be stopped at all costs as he is toxic to our nation, bringing out the worst in all of us. If we had ranked voting I would be voting for Cornel West.

Plus its only a matter of time until the global socioeconomic collapse happens.

I do think the Bidens are corrupt and creepy and sleazy. Joe's past record of voting on policies are gross (police state, stop and frisk, war in Iraq, etc) and I'm not sure he has really changed his stripes. I know he brings that status quo political tone but we actually do need change, just not the MAGA kind. Let someone younger, more in touch, and with fresh ideas run. And this time lets not murder that person like they did with JFK.

 

[igrowone]

so can this be the break through year for a 3rd party candidate?
from what I'm looking at, it's this year or never

 

[GOT_BUD?]

Here's the issue with a 3rd party President - neither party has any vested interest in working with them. They'll be all alone on an island.

A 3rd party needs to happen in Congress first, and gain multiple seats across the country to give a 3rd party President a party to back up his policies.

The better thing to start pushing would be ranked choice voting. That gives a 3rd and 4th parties a chance at winning a few seats and gaining ground to form a real political party that has actual power in Washington.

 

[igrowone]

Here's the issue with a 3rd party President - neither party has any vested interest in working with them. They'll be all alone on an island.

A 3rd party needs to happen in Congress first, and gain multiple seats across the country to give a 3rd party President a party to back up his policies.

The better thing to start pushing would be ranked choice voting. That gives a 3rd and 4th parties a chance at winning a few seats and gaining ground to form a real political party that has actual power in Washington.

quite true I suppose
but this year is about utter disgust with the system
emotions may rule over reason, which is where we've been heading for a while

 

[armedoldhippy]

emotions may rule over reason, which is where we've been heading for a while

like what happened in 2016? done been there, didn't much care for it.

 

[igrowone]

like what happened in 2016? done been there, didn't much care for it.

me neither, but I can see we're heading down an angry road

 

[GOT_BUD?]

We are ON an angry road. Violence done in the name of Sweet Potato Hitler is inevitable.

This 4th Turning is crazy, yo!

 

[HempKat]

Its the perception of Biden that is the issue. While the economy is fairing slightly better I am certainly not a fan of either Biden or Trump. Democrats is general have been fairly disappointing. Perhaps there are more Biden voters than MAGA nutjobs; however, polling shows many independents perceive Biden to be doing a bad job, because he doesn't present well (beyond his speech impediment) Biden seems to be in hiding which is not a good look for a leader. The conservatives are gaining more and more traction throughout almost all of rural America and Dems like Clinton and Biden are kind of tone deaf to the issues facing middle class Americans.

To be honest I am more left of Democrat and therefore do not associate myself as one. Certainly not Gen Z though you seem to have a need to label and size people up. I'm in my 40's and am more of a retired radical. The pace of change in this nation is too slow for the problems we are facing. Wealth is funneled from the masses to the few in a rigged system and the politicians of both parties, who are openly for sale, could give a shit less about the average American. They use fear tactics and culture war to harvest votes but even with control of both the House and Senate the Dems barely do anything really progressive because their true loyalty is to big corporate interests, bankers, and the military industrial complex. Hence why they conspired destroyed Bernie as a viable candidate corruptly.

Can Trump beat Biden, wouldn't surprise me. He is polling higher if you believe that nonsense. So that is why I feel like Biden should step aside because a stronger than Biden candidate vs. Trump would pretty much be guaranteed to win. Trump must be stopped at all costs as he is toxic to our nation, bringing out the worst in all of us. If we had ranked voting I would be voting for Cornel West.

Plus its only a matter of time until the global socioeconomic collapse happens.

I do think the Bidens are corrupt and creepy and sleazy. Joe's past record of voting on policies are gross (police state, stop and frisk, war in Iraq, etc) and I'm not sure he has really changed his stripes. I know he brings that status quo political tone but we actually do need change, just not the MAGA kind. Let someone younger, more in touch, and with fresh ideas run. And this time lets not murder that person like they did with JFK.

First of all it's not a need to label people, I merely mentioned the two groups most likely to see Biden as a bad president. I agree that a much younger president would be a better choice. I don't expect a president to do much to change things for me at age 63 but I do feel that the younger generation needs more representation since they're the ones to feel the consequences of our actions or inactions in the coming years. Based on that i find it a bit odd that you pick Cornel West consdering he's 70 which while 11 years younger then Biden is still a bit long in the tooth. I'm mean he's not a bad option and I'm sure would be a fine candidate for the democrats. Surely though there has to be someone even younger that could make for a good challenger for Trump and do a good job of dealing with the problems the nation faces?

Now that you've described yourself as being more to the left of the democrat spectrum and see yourself as a retired radical i can see where you might be as against Biden as a Gen Z voter. I do however wonder about some of your accessments of Biden though like seeing him as in hiding, i mean he did just give two major speeches back to back, one in Valley Forge and the other at the Mother Emanuel AME Church in South Carolina. Then there was the visit he made to Israel right after the horrific Hamas attacks in Gaza which was the first time an American President ever visited Israel at a time of war. Then not long bfore that he stood with UAW workers on the picket lines which was another first and his presence there played a big part in bringing an end to that strike in a way that was very favorable to the workers. So it seems to me anyone who sees him in hiding just isn't paying attention. I mean he certainly has been doing a lot more then Trump who started off his presidency saying he would be too busy making America great again to play golf and then went ahead and made 285 daytime visits to the golf course during his presidency. I guess Biden was too busy getting the pandemic under control, getting us back on the Paris Climate Accords, passing one of the largest Infrastructure bills in American history which among other much needed things is finally getting something done about the water supply problems that have been plaguing places like Flint Michigan and also created millions of good paying jobs which went a long way towards jump starting the economy. Unfortunately since at the time the Democrates only had control of the House there was a lot of disruption to what Biden wanted caused by the Republican Majority Senate which also blocked the second part of his plan, what he called a Social Infrasturcture bill that likely would have addressed the areas where you feel the change is too slow. Then of course there wss all the work spent on repairing the damage to foreign relations with our allies that Trump did and his efforts of helping to united and lead NATO in dealing with the Russian Invasion into Ukraine, which gave Ukraine what they needed to defend themmselves while still avoiding getting our troops directly involved and/or turning that into WWIII. Oh and let's not forget the clusterfuck Trump created in Afghanistan by committing us to a complete withdrawl months ahead of time which allowed the Taliban to just sit back and wait for us to withdraw and then swooping in to fill the power vacuum that created which made our withdraw much messier then it needed to be. All of those things of course were just the major highlights. There were many other crisises and accomplishments Biden had to deal with which isn't bad for someone who the Republican's and the media make out to be a dottering old fool who has trouble tying his own shoes.

Of course in the Mid terms the Democrats gained control of the Senate (although just barely) but unfortunately lodst control of the house which hs prevented Biden from fully realizing his agenda. Still he managed to get about 150 million student debts forgiven before the Republican stacked SCOTUS put a stop to. He aslso got legislation passed designed to get the US back to a position of more prominence in computer technology with something known as the Chips and Science act so that we aren't as dependent on foreign countries for our technology. He also did a lot to revive manufacturing in the US which has been a tremendous boon for the mid west states where manufacturing was what helped to create the middle class but had been steadily disappearing over the past few decades. All while reducing unemployment and keeping it at historic lows for such a long period that we've not seen anything like it since 1960. He also stop xecutions which had been banned for nearly 2 decades until Trump reinstated the punishment and he also undid the ban on transgender discrimination in the military which Trump Banned during his Presidency. As I said previously he also not only kept us from falling into a recession but also added more jobs and resulted in more GDP growth then all the experts have been predicting and he has done a better job shrinking inflation lower then all of the other G& countries.

Now while all that stuff is greast there sure is a lot of other problems that need to be tackled to bring the pace of change up to whast those on the far left would like. Here's the thing though, while the President is often said to be the most powerful man in the world his ability to create change isn't as easy as many would like it to be When you have a country of just under 330 Million people it's very difficult to bring about fast, meaningful, beneficial change unless you control all of congress and have a majority in the Supreme court. Even with that fast, major, beneficial change is very difficult because the overwhelmng majority of voters are centerists which will almost always resist the change that the extreme right and left seek. So instead of just being able to make large sweeping change you have to first convince a large potion of those centrist oriented voters that they want that change too and that unfortunately will always slow down the pace of change.

As far as 2024 if you're thinking about it in the terms of how many voters like Trump vs how many voters like Biden then you are thinking about it wrong. The reality is that while many might be unhappy with Biden far more are unhappy with Trump. It doesn't necessarily seem like that though because those who like Trump tend to be far more vocal then those thast like Biden and/or hate Trump. plus for whatever reason pretty much all the media talks about thse days when it comes to polls are the great numbers Trump has. The problem though, besides polls being unreliable is that all those number are really showing is the likelihood of Trump winning the primary. I can almost guarentee you that as long as things keep going the way they've been going the numbers will become far more favorable for Biden or almost any reasonably decent democratic candidate and it won't be just because so many love democrates or Biden but because so many dislike Trump and will be doing all they can from stopping Trump from getting a second term. Now if somehow someone else can win the Republican nomination from Trump then everything will need to b reaccessed at that time. The candidate I think the democrats have to fear the most is Haley but with the blunders she made recently I'm not sure even if all Trump supporters voted for her that she could beat Biden. Although in that case it will be less because of people hating her as much as they hate Trump but rather she just hasn't captured the imagination of the non Trump voters. Plus I really don't see Trump voters rallying behind her, Trump has done such a good job of poisoning the well for Republican candidates that his supporters would be much more likely to just not vote. Although I don't think that will happen either. Trump's whole future depends on him winning in 2024 such that if he doesn't get the Republican nomination i'm betting he'll run as an independent. If that happens he'll just end up splitting the vote such that Biden or any other frmocrat would win.

 

[HempKat]

so can this be the break through year for a 3rd party candidate?
from what I'm looking at, it's this year or never

It's unlikely unless someone like Ross Perot emrges but if that person hasn't emerged by now then it''s likely too late. By th way I'm not saying that because I think Ross perot was such a great candidate. i'm just recognizing that as far as i know he's come the closest to winning out of any 3rd party candidate that I know of.

 

[HempKat]

quite true I suppose
but this year is about utter disgust with the system
emotions may rule over reason, which is where we've been heading for a while

I would maybe agree with you on this except I feel like Trump screwed that up for anyone to do that for a long time.

 

[EastCoastGambit]

HempKat you make good points. Biden and his admin deserve credit where credit is due and I do understand that the president is not all powerful.

Oddly enough while I was very outspoken in my formative years I now really don't know where I identify. I somewhat agree with conservatives on some things like limited government, reducing federal spending, and better security of our border. I suppose I associate modern democrats with inefficient bureaucracy, pork filled government programs that are not that well managed or efficient, and to some degree the creation/proliferation of welfare states. I associate all 2 party government with the 50's - basically evil people in cahoots to takeover the world and control normal people. They spy, lie, cheat, and conspire. They are bad people lying through their teeth. Only thing different is the political "theater" has grown more toxic and dysfunctional and no one can really achieve much of anything anymore other than infighting and blame games.

I perceive there is plenty of corruption on both sides of the aisle. As a liberal, Democrats are not my team because while not a socialist I do have a lot of criticism of capitalism, mostly for environmental and social justice reasons (often intertwined) Democrats are just as much of tools for big corporate interests as anyone (big oil, pharma, banking, etc) Someone like Liz Warren may selectively pick fights to indicate that they are something different but that is not their true identity. This guy's tictok rant kind of sums it up, keep in mind I do not agree with all his points, especially some his statements on "what the majority of Americans want"



I mentioned Cornel West because regardless of his age I like the truth of what he speaks, I cannot say that for anyone else in the running. I was just stating out of the people running he is the one who resonates the most with me though admittedly I do not follow him all that closely. I know he stands no chance, mush like a Ralph Nader, but I am glad that people like him continue to be an alternative voice even if they are suppressed by the mainstream. I also liked Kucinich when he made an attempt.

Ranked voting is where it is at. That and term limits/getting lobbying out of politics.

Otherwise its just a completely rigged electorate with no real choice as the RNC and DNC control all the options. People need to wake up and demand something different. However, those that have benefited, or at least believe they are benefiting from the govt. policies will remain complicit.

As much as I dislike Trump I must give credit where credit is due, for his ability to disrupt the system and break through with his own brand and win. The RNC did not support him and he got through with his populist ideology, which is his appeal to many that view him as the disruptor "drain the swamp guy" However he did not deliver on much of anything he said he would. Bernie was almost able to do something similar. In some ways they are kind of alike in that regard, while being on opposite sides of the coin ideologically.

It would be encouraging to be voting for someone - not just against someone else for a change. Trump won because he convinced enough base to vote against Hilary (who I also wasn't a fan of) Biden won because people were voting against Trump. When I vote for Biden again I am basically voting against Trump as I don't like Biden. And although Biden deserved credit for the things you mentioned most selfish and ignorant Americans only remember inflation that hurt them and high gas prices which they unfairly blame the POTUS for.

I expected Biden to be more of a healer after Trump. Someone who can work to challenge the mindset of his critics and those that disagree with him. Someone to challenge the toxic conservative right. I feel like he whimpered away from those actions, and is largely ignoring the rift between Americans that Trump deepened. Someone has to address the divide in this country ideologically, and face it head on. Call it what it is, a problem, and shift the focus to issues that people can agree on. Find commonality and common ground. Have the difficult conversations. Make concessions when needed. And most of all, genuinely work for the common people (middle and lower class)

Lastly though off topic, Liberals dropped their guard. Hence why the Supreme Court became what it is because of all the religious right private interests gaining more and more power and influence. RBG should have retired when a Dem was in charge to ensure her seat wouldn't be flipped to the other side.

 

[armedoldhippy]

Ranked voting is where it is at. That and term limits/getting lobbying out of politics.

the more i read about ranked voting, the better i like it. getting rid of undue lobbyist influence will take some doing...

When I vote for Biden again I am basically voting against Trump as I don't like Biden.

you shouldn't have to vote against someone instead of being FOR somebody, but in times of crisis...

 

[HempKat]

HempKat you make good points. Biden and his admin deserve credit where credit is due and I do understand that the president is not all powerful.

Oddly enough while I was very outspoken in my formative years I now really don't know where I identify. I somewhat agree with conservatives on some things like limited government, reducing federal spending, and better security of our border. I suppose I associate modern democrats with inefficient bureaucracy, pork filled government programs that are not that well managed or efficient, and to some degree the creation/proliferation of welfare states. I associate all 2 party government with the 50's - basically evil people in cahoots to takeover the world and control normal people. They spy, lie, cheat, and conspire. They are bad people lying through their teeth. Only thing different is the political "theater" has grown more toxic and dysfunctional and no one can really achieve much of anything anymore other than infighting and blame games.

I perceive there is plenty of corruption on both sides of the aisle. As a liberal, Democrats are not my team because while not a socialist I do have a lot of criticism of capitalism, mostly for environmental and social justice reasons (often intertwined) Democrats are just as much of tools for big corporate interests as anyone (big oil, pharma, banking, etc) Someone like Liz Warren may selectively pick fights to indicate that they are something different but that is not their true identity. This guy's tictok rant kind of sums it up, keep in mind I do not agree with all his points, especially some his statements on "what the majority of Americans want"



I mentioned Cornel West because regardless of his age I like the truth of what he speaks, I cannot say that for anyone else in the running. I was just stating out of the people running he is the one who resonates the most with me though admittedly I do not follow him all that closely. I know he stands no chance, mush like a Ralph Nader, but I am glad that people like him continue to be an alternative voice even if they are suppressed by the mainstream. I also liked Kucinich when he made an attempt.

Ranked voting is where it is at. That and term limits/getting lobbying out of politics.

Otherwise its just a completely rigged electorate with no real choice as the RNC and DNC control all the options. People need to wake up and demand something different. However, those that have benefited, or at least believe they are benefiting from the govt. policies will remain complicit.

As much as I dislike Trump I must give credit where credit is due, for his ability to disrupt the system and break through with his own brand and win. The RNC did not support him and he got through with his populist ideology, which is his appeal to many that view him as the disruptor "drain the swamp guy" However he did not deliver on much of anything he said he would. Bernie was almost able to do something similar. In some ways they are kind of alike in that regard, while being on opposite sides of the coin ideologically.

It would be encouraging to be voting for someone - not just against someone else for a change. Trump won because he convinced enough base to vote against Hilary (who I also wasn't a fan of) Biden won because people were voting against Trump. When I vote for Biden again I am basically voting against Trump as I don't like Biden. And although Biden deserved credit for the things you mentioned most selfish and ignorant Americans only remember inflation that hurt them and high gas prices which they unfairly blame the POTUS for.

I expected Biden to be more of a healer after Trump. Someone who can work to challenge the mindset of his critics and those that disagree with him. Someone to challenge the toxic conservative right. I feel like he whimpered away from those actions, and is largely ignoring the rift between Americans that Trump deepened. Someone has to address the divide in this country ideologically, and face it head on. Call it what it is, a problem, and shift the focus to issues that people can agree on. Find commonality and common ground. Have the difficult conversations. Make concessions when needed. And most of all, genuinely work for the common people (middle and lower class)

Lastly though off topic, Liberals dropped their guard. Hence why the Supreme Court became what it is because of all the religious right private interests gaining more and more power and influence. RBG should have retired when a Dem was in charge to ensure her seat wouldn't be flipped to the other side.

Man, I wish you had explained your view in more detail initially because i find that you and i can agree on a lot more things when i hear what you said above, then i was able to when I reas your previous posts. I know I come off sound more like i'm all in for the Democrats but that's mainly because of two things, one is that i am all against Trump and i deperately don't want to see him win again and then follow the game plan of
Project 2025. I feel certain that if that happens America will fall into chaos and that it will be a long time if ever before we can climb out of that hole and redeem ourselves. The other thing is that the Republicans are just so far gone that I can't see myself ever supporting them any time soon. I've long help the belief encapsulated by the following joke, "how do you tell when a politician is lying? His Lips move." Now some of them are not as bad as others and it's those types i tend to find myself liking.

I agree with a lot of what is described in that video you posted, the one thing I don't understand is why don't the Democrats give up their corporate sponsers and switch to al grassroots support that the Internet has made possible? That way they could do more of what once had them so popular and stop playing the games they play these days. Both obama and Bernie has succesddfully demonstrated that there is huge money that can be raise by $25 dollars at a time but to make that work for more then a single term they have to really deliver on what the people want. I think many might have sold Biden a bit short or I'm at least hoping so. I'm hoping that the Republicans have shot themselves in the feet enough that we will see full Democrat control for more then just one term in Congress and the senate. If he can get that then
I think he might surprise people in a second term where he won't have to worry about re-election and can be more free to tackle some of the big issues favoring the middle and lower class. Unfortunately we won't really know until we get there. Then we might just discover that there are still some good representatives in government that just don't get the recognition they deserve because they are having to work so hard just to stay in office. There are a number of promising names among both parties that I think could really do some great things for the country if they didn't have to spend so much energy on keeping their parties from turning against them. Either way though for now i'm sticking with Biden because i'm really thinking it will come down to him and Trump and i just can't trust Trump, not even in the slightest. I do recognize it could also go totally the other way and Biden might turn out to be a worse president in his second term then he's been in his first.

I would really like to see what some of the younger congress members can do like Aoc or Katie Porter can do, if not as President then in the Senate. There are some others I'm watching but I'm still not sure about. Really though I would much rather see the younger generation pay closer attention to what's going on and be the driving force in deciding who the leaders will be in 2028 and beyond. Since like i said they're the ones that are going to have to live with where this nation is headed in the future.

 

[EastCoastGambit]

Trumps term was really eye opening, not so much anything he did or said, but what it showed about our populace. Its pretty depressing the level of support he garnered. I chalk it up mostly that he provided meaning, purpose, and belonging to a certain class of American, lets face it, white middle to lower class men without higher education and angry young white men. Steve Bannon was really the architect behind the scenes. Not to mention bots on social media fanning the flames, and Russian meddling, and Cambridge Analytics. A mix of new technology and the classic fascist playbook is really dangerous and powerful. These folks were manipulated and brainwashed and even though it was dangerous the RNC eventually caved in and pledged support because:

They envied the power of Trumps base (MAGA nation)
They may have been scared
and they wanted to use Trump for their own agendas (mainly corporate tax cuts, low interest rates, deregulation, and getting more pro life justices on the bench)

I think many on the right have realized the Pandoras box they have opened and the monster it created. It's like deja vu now seeing them back Trump again because they are too spineless to say what they really believe, all they care about is not getting voted out. These people have no integrity.

Trump might be the leader but the massive movement and call for "civil war" is the more scary thought. The fact that many conservatives I know really believe democrats are all evil, queer, mentally diseased, socialist, Satan worshipers is disturbing. There is a level of group think going on, lots of insecurity and pressure to tow the line- I would imagine it is strong in many rural communities in the South and Midwest. I also see it in the Northeast, many areas just in NH are trump country. Think of how many people would be ashamed to be seen with a Bud Light not long ago. I mean I don't drink Bud Light but I gave that up for better IPA's in college LOL. And while it is diffucult to not want to blanket judge the conservatives, some of these brainwashed MAGA's are people I know and have respect for on different levels. Some of them are hard working, and would do a lot to help a person in need. I know they are brainwashed, so I try to look past that stuff. And as I stated earlier I can sympathize with some of the issues the conservatives have because I can think beyond the normal dualistic mentality. I hope some on their side can do the same, I know a few who can. Things are not black and white - as I imagine you know.

I do blame the Dems for some of this fallout. There used to be strong union support for democrats. I do believe that Democrats focus so much on urban issues and culture war issues that they failed to acknowledge the plight and demise of suburban and rural America, economically and culturally. They do not speak to that group, as being the corporate shills, they view those folks as just the working class consumers that fuel wealth transfer to the upper class through consumerism and healthcare scemes. I sort of feel the dems use LGBTQ+ issues, civil rights, and welfare programs as fodder for votes just as much as the Repubs used "family values & the church" republicans never gave a damn about pro-life before - they never wanted to stop abortion because they used that issue to garner support.

I can beleive that some are in leadership do try and do good, and I know in any leadership role you have to make tough choices that sometimes hurt groups of people. I get there could be some good intentions mixed in. I would like to believe in democracy, if it could function as inteded it could be so wonderful. But obviously I'm jaded. I think good meaning people get torn apart and corrupted fast in this world, politics and in other arenas as well. They compromise one another, like in the series "House of Cards" and as alluded to in Hunter S Thompson's novels. Its really gotten so bad that it seems like no one knows what to believe about anything (all these conspiracy theories)

Anyways I'm ranting - you get my gist. What I am desperate for is a politician that seems like a normal person, with normal flaws, and above all, common sense and reason. Someone that looks, acts, and thinks like everyday people. Someone who is funny and cool and humble, and charismatic, and above all is honest and trustworthy.

Biden is kind of relatable but very vanilla, and I imagine may be actually a creep (I'm not sure) I do think Hunter is a scumbag and while he is not the POTUS it is still a reflection of him on some ways. Obama was really well spoken and a statesman, but is tied to a lot of sketchy stuff internationally. I feel. Bush Sr was palatable but had evil intentions, CIA stuff born from the Dulles brothers days. Bill Clinton seemed kind of normal but the Clinton's apparently made a lot of people dissapear in their rise to power and its one of those I'm not sure what to believe but my hunch is they are probably evil like others in that sphere. Hanging out with Epstien is also not a good look. Obviously Bush Jr was a moron doing daddy's bidding. Anyone before Bush Sr. I really dont remember but only know of through history.

I remember fondly when Americans were most United in the feeling that all politicians suck. Same shit, different pile. I still live in that mindset but it feels so many have moved over to "my team is better than yours and we are going to win" This happened as both parties have fractured with more left and more right extremes and when culture war issues became so baked in to everything thanks to Rush Limbaugh and the like.

 

[EastCoastGambit]

Trumps term was really eye opening, not so much anything he did or said, but what it showed about our populace. Its pretty depressing the level of support he garnered. I chalk it up mostly that he provided meaning, purpose, and belonging to a certain class of American, lets face it, white middle to lower class men without higher education and angry young white men. Steve Bannon was really the architect behind the scenes. Not to mention bots on social media fanning the flames, and Russian meddling, and Cambridge Analytics. A mix of new technology and the classic fascist playbook is really dangerous and powerful. These folks were manipulated and brainwashed and even though it was dangerous the RNC eventually caved in and pledged support because:

They envied the power of Trumps base (MAGA nation)
They may have been scared
and they wanted to use Trump for their own agendas (mainly corporate tax cuts, low interest rates, deregulation, and getting more pro life justices on the bench)

I think many on the right have realized the Pandoras box they have opened and the monster it created. It's like deja vu now seeing them back Trump again because they are too spineless to say what they really believe, all they care about is not getting voted out. These people have no integrity.

Trump might be the leader but the massive movement and call for "civil war" is the more scary thought. The fact that many conservatives I know really believe democrats are all evil, queer, mentally diseased, socialist, Satan worshipers is disturbing. There is a level of group think going on, lots of insecurity and pressure to tow the line- I would imagine it is strong in many rural communities in the South and Midwest. I also see it in the Northeast, many areas just in NH are trump country. Think of how many people would be ashamed to be seen with a Bud Light not long ago. I mean I don't drink Bud Light but I gave that up for better IPA's in college LOL. And while it is diffucult to not want to blanket judge the conservatives, some of these brainwashed MAGA's are people I know and have respect for on different levels. Some of them are hard working, and would do a lot to help a person in need. I know they are brainwashed, so I try to look past that stuff. And as I stated earlier I can sympathize with some of the issues the conservatives have because I can think beyond the normal dualistic mentality. I hope some on their side can do the same, I know a few who can. Things are not black and white - as I imagine you know.

I do blame the Dems for some of this fallout. There used to be strong union support for democrats. I do believe that Democrats focus so much on urban issues and culture war issues that they failed to acknowledge the plight and demise of suburban and rural America, economically and culturally. They do not speak to that group, as being the corporate shills, they view those folks as just the working class consumers that fuel wealth transfer to the upper class through consumerism and healthcare scemes. I sort of feel the dems use LGBTQ+ issues, civil rights, and welfare programs as fodder for votes just as much as the Repubs used "family values & the church" republicans never gave a damn about pro-life before - they never wanted to stop abortion because they used that issue to garner support.

I can beleive that some are in leadership do try and do good, and I know in any leadership role you have to make tough choices that sometimes hurt groups of people. I get there could be some good intentions mixed in. I would like to believe in democracy, if it could function as inteded it could be so wonderful. But obviously I'm jaded. I think good meaning people get torn apart and corrupted fast in this world, politics and in other arenas as well. They compromise one another, like in the series "House of Cards" and as alluded to in Hunter S Thompson's novels. Its really gotten so bad that it seems like no one knows what to believe about anything (all these conspiracy theories)

Anyways I'm ranting - you get my gist. What I am desperate for is a politician that seems like a normal person, with normal flaws, and above all, common sense and reason. Someone that looks, acts, and thinks like everyday people. Someone who is funny and cool and humble, and charismatic, and above all is honest and trustworthy.

Biden is kind of relatable but very vanilla, and I imagine may be actually a creep (I'm not sure) I do think Hunter is a scumbag and while he is not the POTUS it is still a reflection of him on some ways. Obama was really well spoken and a statesman, but is tied to a lot of sketchy stuff internationally. I feel. Bush Sr was palatable but had evil intentions, CIA stuff born from the Dulles brothers days. Bill Clinton seemed kind of normal but the Clinton's apparently made a lot of people dissapear in their rise to power and its one of those I'm not sure what to believe but my hunch is they are probably evil like others in that sphere. Hanging out with Epstien is also not a good look. Obviously Bush Jr was a moron doing daddy's bidding. Anyone before Bush Sr. I really dont remember but only know of through history.

I remember fondly when average Americans were mostly United in the feeling that all politicians suck. "Same shit, different pile" I still live in that mindset but it feels so many have moved over to "my team is better than yours and we are going to win" This happened as both parties have fractured with more left and more right extremes and when culture war issues became so baked in to everything thanks to Rush Limbaugh and the like.

 

[EastCoastGambit]

Quoted my own post by accident.

 

[HempKat]

I think a big part of the problem is everyone has become more demanding and less willing to compromise. instead of it being "okay you get some of what you want and I get some of what I want" it's now more like "I want, what I want and I want it now and if you don't give it to me then you are just another deep state corporate schill swamp monster. By the way, I get really frustrated by the whole "Drain The Swamp" thing and what it has come to mean to so many. I've pretty much lived my whole life in the State of Maryland and usually not too far outside the beltway. As such I grew up hearing and practically living politics my whole life. When I was a kid and the Nixon/Watergate Drama unfolded, there were several people working in that group of people who lived within my neighborhood. Anyway the saying "Drain the Swamp" has been floating around for a long time well before Trump really helped it to catch on and back then it wasn't so much of a catch all phrase to describe anyone in DC you didn't like. Instead it was a reference to all the corporate money involved in politics and refered pretty much exclusively to getting all the Lobbyists from K Street that would bribe politicians out of politics. The swamp was the lobbyists, at least those who only looked out for corporate interests. It still is that but now it's become so much more and for the Trump/MAGA crowd it's pretty much anyone who doesn't Kowtow to Trump. As a result the public has lost site of the original goal of draining the swamp because there are many swamp monster who would be only too happy to support Trump or anyone like him.

You mentioned Civil War and I wanted to touch base on that first of all that's mainly coming from the MAGA crowd and if you look at and/or listen to them, if they fought in a Civil War they would be among the first fatalities either because they're too old and out of shape, too ignorant or both. When Trump first got indicted he was warning of that starting a Civil War or at least Riots in the streets and yet when he actually was indictd hardly anyone turned out to protest it. It's real easy to talk up all this violence and call in bomb threats or other types of swatting and I think some of these yahoos get off on it just like they enjoy being internet tough guys or keyboard warriors but when it comes to actually taking action, to back up the talk with action only a small fraction are actually willing to follow thru. They got lucky with Jan 6th because nobody wants to turn a group of citizens exercising their right to protest into another Kent State. So they got caught off guard because nobody thought they would go as far as they did. I think it's a pretty safe bet though that they'll never get away with that again.

What really gets me the most though is the level of cognitive dissonance among the MAGA crowd that allows them to believe the things the say. Like for instance believing that Jan 6th was just a group of peaceful protestors wanting to tour the capital. i don't know about anyone else but peaceful is not a word I would apply to a group who builds a gallows, fights police amd storms the capital calling for the hanging of the Vice President. I mean that's just like those types that protest abortion clinics talking about a right to life one minute and then trying to set fire to or blow up those clinics with pregnant women still inside.

Speaking of cognitive dissonance and Jeffery Epstein, I really get tired of how so many are quick to jump on the connections between Epstein and Clinton but are totally silent about the connections between Epstein and Trump. It amazes me that so many of the QAnon crowd are behind Trump to because of his connections to Epstein. I mean if people did a little digging into that relationship you can find very disturbing examples of pedophilia and sex trafficing that both Epstein and Trump engaged in. There is a story out there that is hard to find now because it got pretty well shut down thru threats and intimidation to the girl telling it but it involved Trump and Epstein taking a 14 year old girl who was a virgin to a bedroom for sex and the two of them fighting over who would be the one to get to deflower the poor girl. You can also find stories of how Eptein set Trump up with underaged models and the girl most known (Virginia Guiffre) for the charges that got Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell locked up for their crimes, was a former underaged employee at Mar-A-Lago that Trump introduced to Epstein. Yet you don't hear a peep about that from the QAnon crowd but suggest that the Clintons have a secret basement prison in a pizza place where they take children to drink their blood in Satanic rituals and you get a crazed gunman showing up to the pizza place that has no basement ready to kill people and save the children. Also it's more of the same with this Evangelical Christian Nationalist componant of the MAGA crowd that see's Trump as being sent from God despite all of the infidelity to his wives and othr well known documented sexual misconduct by Trump that maek him as being more from Satan then from God. I mean do those people not read Revelations? When Revelations talks of the Anti Christ they talk of him rising in politics and gaining power by convincing the masses that only he can solve problems like the conflicts in the Mid East, Now who does this "I'm the only one..." kind of talk sound a lot like?

Okay now I'm just ranting too and I don't really know how to tie everything that I've covered into a nice neat summation. So instead of trying I'm just going to end here.

 

[GOT_BUD?]

Anti-cancel culture canceling Jack Reacher.

Book burning Nazi upset that his book is getting burned.

Tough week for the "you're a bunch of snowflakes" crowd

 

[HempKat]

Biden is kind of relatable but very vanilla, and I imagine may be actually a creep (I'm not sure) I do think Hunter is a scumbag and while he is not the POTUS it is still a reflection of him on some ways. Obama was really well spoken and a statesman, but is tied to a lot of sketchy stuff internationally. I feel. Bush Sr was palatable but had evil intentions, CIA stuff born from the Dulles brothers days. Bill Clinton seemed kind of normal but the Clinton's apparently made a lot of people dissapear in their rise to power and its one of those I'm not sure what to believe but my hunch is they are probably evil like others in that sphere. Hanging out with Epstien is also not a good look. Obviously Bush Jr was a moron doing daddy's bidding. Anyone before Bush Sr. I really dont remember but only know of through history.

I was wondering if you could expand more on you dislike of Biden. Not just what you said in the quoted portion above but rather you're overall view? Like in a previous post you said, "I do think the Bidens are corrupt and creepy and sleazy" which really amazes me because I can't think of anything that fairly earns Biden the title of corrupt and sleazy. The creepy part I guess I get because he had that thng about sniffing women's hair but given the kind of creepiness that has been exhibited by many of the politicians that have been around as long as him that's pretty low on the spectrum of creepy in comparrison and it seems like it's something he's managed to stop doing at least publically. I'm also surprised by the way you stated that as "the Bidens which says to me that you include Jill in that accessment. As hard of a time I have thinking of Joe Biden as corrupt and sleazy I find it even harder to think of Jill Biden that way. Now Hunter I can see because of the jobs he's taken and his drug addictions and the nude pics But I mean come on, most people wou;d take advantsage of an easy job paying millions just becasuse of who their Father is but so far there seems to be no evidence he ever got his Father to do anything because of his job. i also cut him a lot of slack on the drug addiction because he did go thru quite a bit of trauma with the deaths in his family. I've known plenty of people who has far less tragedy in their lives that became drug addicts but still it's really not fair to judge people on their addictions given how many people struggle with addictions of one sort or another and you really cant judge them for it fairly until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That just leaves the nude pics which definitely fall in the catagory of creepy and sleazy but truth be told we onlly know of that because he fell behind on paying a repair bill on his laptop. The person who he owed for that was entitled to take possession of it to try to recoup the money he was owed but to do so by giving it to people who he new would use it to try and dig up politcal dirt to smear his father with definitely falls in the catagory of corrupt, creepy and sleazy. I mean sure, reformat the drive, remove personal info and then sell the laptop as a laptop, that reasonable but to trade it in to someone to try to weaponize it that's pretty horrendous behavior in my book. Had that computer repair guy done the acceptable thing of reformatting the drive and selling the laptop for what it's worth then most of this stuff against Huntr would just be between him and God which is where it belongs. I do get what you say about his past voting record and sure some of that looks pretty bad judging it by the lens of modern times but his votes weren't really all that outrageous for the times in which they were made. I mean the war in Iraq it wasn't just Bush's Father or Bush jr's VP that was helping to mislead things, you also had the head of the CIA and Colin Powell assuring everyone there was a real threat there. I mean yeah it was wrong to shift the war to Iraq and just walk away from Afghanistan when we has the Taliban and Al Qaeda on the run and has we stuck with things there maybe all the bad things that happened in Afghanistan might have turned out very differently. Still it's not like Biden was the deciding factor at worst he was just being naieve. As for the policing stuff yeah that turned out badly and ended up as a way of targeting minorities but you can't really blame Biden for how the laws he helped to pass ended up being abused and misused. That was pretty much on the police that abused them. plus he did manage to help get the only ban ever passed on assault rifles.

 

[armedoldhippy]

I do think Hunter is a scumbag and while he is not the POTUS it is still a reflection of him on some ways.

that's like saying "i think that The Chump is sexy because his daughter is hot!" or "Jimmy Carter is a dumbass, because Billy..."