Trick my Pod - The complete Aeroponics primer

[flgreyhound]

Thanks for the Tip...though you might have PM'd me instead of posting it. Of course I've deleted my posts, but since you quoted my message, I can't get rid of that....and I can't PM you.
Yea....thanks.

 

[Pod Racer]

Pretty much. As you get more experienced at running a TAG you'll find it isn't as complicated as you might think. There is just a very sharp learning curve to it, but once you understand what is happening and how to drive the rig your options are myriad.
You can cruise on with little attention and just let them run sexy, or push them if you know what you are doing and have them go freakish monster on you. It is literally like having your fingers on the dial, you just have to learn that TAGging is very sensitive to little touch so don't crank it up full throttle out of the gate as unlike soil you don't have have a couple of weeks to see the results, more like hours.

Here are my babies, hardly suffering moisture loss or def at 300 ppms.



They have grown about 1.5 inches in the past 48 hours since being put into the rig and having a blast with the 400 watt only. They can hang here for a week without issue, but then I'd be stepping up to about 450-500 next week once they start to get under the scrog.

My pref for DMOne is only because they have put extensive research into their product specifically for aeroponics and hydro. They understand the Ca:Mg ratios (which most don't) and the Nitrogen balance between the two available sources which keeps the plants from experiencing lockout or def.

Like I said, TAG growing is very rapid and accelerated so the better you can refine every part the better - Calcium is a very critical elelment often over looked or lost in most hydro, but much more important than most give it credit for being. That is why just dumping Epsom Salts on your plants doesn't always fix it. And Mg and Ca are antagonistic to an extent, so you have to understand what is going on at that level.

Just remember, there isn't ANY physical or organic barrier to your root's absorption so you can't just drop hot nutes directly on them without shocking the plant. Dirt slows the uptake and availability as well as having to share the nutrient elements with other bacterial animals. In TAG its just them and the Nitrofixing bacteria all the way. So, the closest you can get to exactly what they demand the faster and healthier they will be.

And just becareful of jumping into flower too soon, you do not want to do that as I stated - once they switch that is it for growth and N absorbtion, so if they are too small or don't have sufficent N already in the plant they will not make it to the finish line without sever deficiency. And you need N in heavy flower, despite what others might tell you.

Good luck.

PS I haven't even begun to foliar feed yet. Just imagine.

 

[BlindDate]

And just be careful of jumping into flower too soon, you do not want to do that as I stated - once they switch that is it for growth and N absorption, so if they are too small or don't have sufficient N already in the plant they will not make it to the finish line without sever deficiency. And you need N in heavy flower, despite what others might tell you.

How large are you going to take them before the flip? The size of the plant while in veg is not going to have any effect on it's health during flower and certainly not cause a deficiency by the end of flower. I think it would be almost impossible to get a deficiency using any of the modern nutrients and certainly not when using DM. Your so called deficiency is most likely from another reason. Probably the 1 on 4 off feed cycle. Kick it up to 3 on 2 off and the "deficiency" will go away.

 

[Deadic8d]

Nutes in flower

Nutes in flower

O.K. now Pod or Blind so .... DM1 grow and ? for 2 weeks is the plan then DM1 flower and ? for the next 8 weeks ? Mixing some HydroGuard in with it to keep it clean, right? Sorry for needing more specifics but keep in mind this is my first try at hydro of any kind , so I'm at a total loss. I've just always done good with FF soil. So please let me know what your mix for specificaly is for veg and then for flower if you wouldn't mind. You could PM me if you like. Thanks again for all of your time into all of this Pod, the world needs more people like you. Blind do you have some pics of your TAG to show us?

 

[BlindDate]

Growing healthy plants in veg is fairly easy. You can feed them almost anything at a wide range of EC levels. It's when we get to flower that all the sh@t happens. Keep the sprayers on them AT LEAST 50% of the time, but I think 75% is better. Remember the importance of root zone temp. 68-70 F is ideal. Most people use chillers, but chillers aren't going to work if the spray only runs 20% of the time. That is another reason I recommend a 50-75% on time.
Don't run EC over 1.6 (800 ppm Hanna) or under 1.0 (500 ppm Hanna), and screw all the additives except for some PK at week 3-4. You'll grow healthy happy plants.
Another thing..Don't try to compensate for every little spot, yellow leaf, imperfection that you see. Remember that your plants are dying and like all of us in the end, stuff just starts to break. Put a little trust in the nutrient manufacturers and stick to the program.

 

[Got Buds?]

hmmmmm i dont get how this works?
im very noob and a little slow...
can someone please give me a basic rundown of how this works?
looks like your getting execelent results!
btw think i read somewhere that trichs grow on the roots?
does this mean you could smoke the roots?
wtf lol sorry im a bit stoned

 

[Pod Racer]

Blindmate seems to have all the answers, yet no grow to show for any of it. I'll leave the thread to his apparent expertise in running my system.

 

[BlindDate]

Blindmate seems to have all the answers, yet no grow to show for any of it. I'll leave the thread to his apparent expertise in running my system.

My advice is only common sense. There is nothing special about this system. Like all hydroponics systems, we are simply applying nutrients to roots. The only advantage of Aero is the increased oxygen. It gives us a faster growth rate as you all know. That is only one small part of growing, sorry, I did not intend to "Hijack" your thread with my 3 posts. I thought that the purpose of these threads is to share/exchange information.

can someone please give me a basic rundown of how this works?
looks like your getting execelent results!

I haven't seen any results. Have you?

 

[Deadic8d]

Don't Give Up

Don't Give Up

Pod, don't take off for hell sakes, we need you here as you know to well. I for one respect your knowledge and willingness to share it with others. But Please don't get frustrated with others opinions , as I need all the input I can get from all of you!! Show him how he's wrong or at least put it off to the way he has to TUNE HIS system? Hell, I don't know cuz I'm the noob to this. But, PLEASE don't give up on me guys, I'm just lost. What about the dm 1 and hydroguard, is that Ok to just go with that? DM 1 Grow 2 weeks and then DM 1 Flower the rest of the time until the last week and a half to flush. Or are you guys making a coctail with different stuff. Whats your recipe there PR? ............PLEASE? Oh and Blind I wanted to point out again that Biocontrols runs theirs on at 10% of the time oops wrong on that its 3 secs on 3 min off....Just a little reminder , but then I would think that their chamber is somewhat pressure proof? or something to hold the fog better.Who knows? And I believe Pod has submitted enough to prove up.

 

[Pod Racer]

Never give up, never surrender!

Never give up, never surrender!

Just so there can be no dispute:

Remember those little clones from a couple of days ago?



I'll let the pictures speak for themselves.

(Actually it is my favorite part of handing someone their ass....)
Pay special attention to the clone in the nearest right hand corner...do you believe in magic? I do. Presto Chango! But I didn't even touch it.



And how can this be????? For he is the Ultimate Pod Racer! Snap!

Like Celery, yum yum.



And the crowd goes wild!
Do I know my shit or do I know my shit...I know my shit.

 

[Deadic8d]

I like ...........hmnmmmm like I said you've prooved up plenty in my book but that didn't answer my question Pod. Your mix for veg and then for flower would help me alot . I know it is asking alot or even repetitive but i just don't want to burn my starts. Until I get my own mother goin, They're to hard to get.

 

[Pod Racer]

Not quite sure what you are asking Dead, however here is what I know:

First as stated on the TAG Landing thread:

I found that fertilizer ratios play a major role in hydroponic beyond the basic N-P-K.

Apparently, the balance between Ca and Mg (a ratio of 3:1) is required for optimal plant growth in hydro. This is the minimum. As long as the ratio stays in that range and there are adequate amounts of other nutrients the plants will continue to pick up both Ca and Mg, while it was found that Ferts with substantially different ratios resulted in some deficiencies of nutrients and will lead to plant stress and prone to disease or pests.

K:Ca, K:Mg, Ca:Mg, Fe:Zn appear to be the limiting factor for growth so for TAG these will have to be precise to maintain flawless leaves...this will be the hard part, unless DMOne has solved this as claimed."

Now even more information:

Ratio between 2 forms of N (NO3:NH4) Best ratio of NO3-N (Nitrate) Vs. NH4-N (Ammoniacal) in any liquid fert is 9:1 as most of the N taken by the plant is in a nitrate form and a very small portion is taken up in an Ammoniacal form.
Secondly...ferts with higher NH4-N can reduce volume of the total plant growth. In general those plants will produce smaller darker green foliage compared to higher NO3-N ferts. Good to know, eh?

This is due to N form effects on photosynthesis and N assimilation as NH4-N must be immediately used in a process requiring carbos (the sugars you are trying to produce) and without sufficient levels of carbos free NH4-N can be toxic to plants. While on the other hand when NO3-N is taken up it is reduced to NH3 and assimilated into amino acid. If sufficient carobs are not available then the NO3-N is stored in the vacuoles (storage house for salts used to build up osmotic pressure) of the cell until carbos are available. Which means NO3-N will never tie up available carbos (sugars) at the expense of the plant's growth.

This information is all courtesy of Dr. Tahir Mahood
Director of R&D for Grotek Manufacturing Inc.

Most important is that you understand that you need to 1/2 your usual regime from DWC. Seriously you can burn healthy plants that are a foot tall with nutes over 800 ppms. They are taking a feeding every 4 minutes so think less is more. Start vegging at 300 up to 600-800, then flowering start at 600 and go up to 1000 if necessary in heavy, heavy flower. Full tables of liter sized colas can barely take 1200 ppms and that is only with aggressive feeders. Most will enjoy 900-1000 ppms at max flower.

This is all found in the begining of this thread, I don't know what else to say about it. It isn't really any more complicated than that. Those clones you see in the rig now are at 350 ppms of DM One with a touch of HydroGuard and a splash of SM-90. I don't add anything until later flowering as the DM One is balanced and designed to be complete. You shouldn't need anything more than DM One Flower and eventually MAX as an additive once you know what you are doing. That is pretty much it.

PS they're about 3" taller this morning. Time to take clones.

 

[Deadic8d]

Your Tops in My Book Pod

Your Tops in My Book Pod

I know most of it was covered in the original Tag thread, but things have changed since then. Not the basics but your nutes and rigs. Personaly I like the look of the tub setup and easability (it looks like IMO). What do you think of those big Ice chests( 125 qrt I think- about 4'x20"), it would seal up real good and insulate the root zone extremely well. I just happen to have one I'm just not to sure if I want to sacrifice it yet. What do you think of the cooler idea Pod. Also I've yet to see a solution come up for an automatic 12volt backup pump to kick in so you wouldn't come home from work to burned up plants. Oh and one thing more Pod, ........Thank you again for the clarification on what to use for veg and flower. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[Deadic8d]

pure oxygen?

pure oxygen?

ya know those oxygen machines that they have that draws pure oxygen out of the air? Its for folks that have sleep aphnea(spelling who knows). My uncle had one for that reason. How do you think that would be in the rootzone Pod.... to much or what? lol, if you say yes watch the number of orders go up for those things.

 

[Guest]

oxygen concentrators; i've thought about those before. Seems like a person could trick the pod with one, prolly give some boost, a few percent. They're on the Bay all the time.

P.S. Of course burning the joint down in that oxygen rich atmosphere could be a bummer..

 

[Pod Racer]

The bad man chuckles.

Hmmm, now you are thinking like a Racer there. Natural born I bet. That would be an interesting addition to a pod. You could go completely insane and do subaquatic Co2 delivery as well. Hollyshit!

The Ice Chest is an excellent idea. One of my first cronies on OG was an old guy that used to trick these awesome coleman coolers into a pod for 4. He ran 3 or 4 of them in rotation (sequenced) for a Perpetual grow that yielded huge colas for him monthly. They take care of a lot of the temp. problems at root zone. Not a bad idea at all.

The pods (my original design) is the bomb, if I do say so myself. They did work the best and where monster cool, except for all the leaks and issues I had learning what would hold under pressure and what would not - usually my patients. Anyhow, the only major drawback besides zero insulation from ambient room temperatures was that the little plastic molded feet (they were just dents in the form) would crack almost immediately after being filled with a 1/4 the volume of water. The plastic is just not designed for acid water and inevitably you get a mysterious slow leak that will flood your room or closet.

If only they made a nicely rectangular black heavy duty cargo box with a drip proof lid we'd be in business. I couldn't find anything so I've just been creative as I find that is what makes growing fun in the first place. You really appreciate the miracle of life once you see just how much shit goes into keeping it alive on its own. I don't believe in god, but I do believe in the miracle of life.

I have no idea about the O2 infussion, that sounds like some experimentation and research to me. Awesome Idea though, and no I don't think it would be too much however the aerosol, if created correctly is like O3 coming at the root system. It is so highly aerated that the condensed water in those pods was almost like carbonic acid and was effervescent due to such high oxygen content and activation from the fogger nozzles.

My only fear would be the destruction of bacteria on the rootzone that could be easily destroyed by O3 but I have no idea at this moment what the effect of pure O2 and Aerosol H2O colliding would create. Would be interesting to find out. I'll give it a think and we can compare notes. Excellent thinking, brava!

Oh and PS I was mistaken about a nutrient thing. I'm using Botanicare's Power Plant right now, not DM One veg. It is just a personal preferrence. I like the way it vegges my plants and its mostly organic. Either is great, but it dawned on me that I might have told you I was using DM and I am not currently. By the way those clones are another 3" taller tonight. Cha, right!

 

[Guest]

Hey great thread Pod Racer. Lot's of good info for any style of growing!

 

[Deadic8d]

drip proof box?

drip proof box?

check out this box from ProTuff Truck box at Lowe's, the lid has an inside lip that comes down and it looks like it would work pretty darn close to dripproofing from the looks of it. I checked one out in my buddy's truck and it sure looks like it might be what we're after. They also have an SUV box 37x14 x 13 that is insulated I think and I'll look at those today and give an update.some reason I can't get it to make a proper hyperlink

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productList&Ne=9000&category=Less%20than%20$50&N=0+5001040+6

Update on the boxes at Lowes, they don't have the inner lip like the box that I looked at in my buddy's truck. And the SUV box isn't insulated at all.Maybe a different maker altogether. Still searching it out.

Update on the boxes again: Same maker but they must have changed the mold for the lid so still hunting ( I really hate to sacrifice my big cooler..lol).

 

[flgreyhound]

POD:

Clearly I'm having some issues. I know you don't use Advanced Nutrient products and you may not even be familiar with them...but I'm using their full 2+ line.
I'm in my first real week of veg...first 2 weeks were treated as "rooted clones".
800ppm using Organic nutes (Iguana Juice grow) plus all the 2+ additives as well as Sensi-Cal (approx 300ppm).

I have had this same deficiency/lockout occur on every one of my grows. I keep thinking it's a Magnesium deficiency but I've used Cal/Mg in the past and am currently using AN's Sensi-Cal....yet I still see this issue.
I *try* to keep pH at 5.6, but it is constantly climbing up on me....presumably due to the beneficial bacteria in the AN Piranha and Tarantula products colonizing.
Strain is Bubba Kush from clone
Res temp is solid at 68F.
Room temp is 78F lights on 76F lights off.
I'm running CO2 at 700ppm.
Relative Humidity - ~ 50%

Any help you or other TAG grows could provide will be greatly appreciated.

 

[whereisbrianV.]

Hound- can we see a shot of you roots? I looks like the plants are a bit over watered or maybe it is just some mean-ass lock-out. I would put some RO in the res until you get well below 500ppms, 800 seems high even for organic.