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Tom Hill Haze
- Thread starter Morphote
- Start date
WHERE DID THE DELETE BUTTON GO ON UPGRADE, WE REALLY NEED A DELETE BUTTON FOR WHEN WE MAKE A MISTAKE
Thats what made Nevil such a Haze master , he selected and worked with the 2 most amazing sides of Haze ever found , extensively
C Haze ( Thai Side) and A Haze ( Colombian side) , nobody has worked Haze like Nevil , not even Sam the guy who brought Haze to Holland.
There is off course other great Hazes from Sam ( Titans Haze , best O Haze hybrid i ever sampled from Sams camp) and of course Tom Hills Haze also( i have 20 seeds to look through myself ( thanks Tom) , looks very interesting and defo different to the Sam O Haze we seen for last ( 20 plus years) and many others co's also sold Haze seeds( most dutch co's would buy bulk from Sam or Nevil and call it whatever) but nobody advanced our Haze scene as much as Nevil , or produced as many amazing Haze Hybrids or put out as many Haze seeds through many seed co's , The seedbank , Sensi seeds , Greenhouse seeds , and even Mr Nice which shanti sold 1000's of packets from Nevils creations before they run out and made new batches.
90% plus of people wont even like Haze if it wasnt for hybrids like NL5 Haze , Silver Haze etc etc
JohnnyChicago
Well-known member
My purple OH90 x THH mother does get purple every time during the last 2 weeks of flowering. Also under HPS and with +30°C. If harvested before it gets purple, effect is narcotic or stone. Muddy and taste metallic. When purple, the terpnes are like christmas spices, peppery and sweet. Effect euphoric, positive, clearer and slightly psychedelic. When you share a joint and say it is Purple Haze, seems people get Purple Haze vibes. But most of the time they are Kush, commercial haze and hash smokers. Not used to true sativas.
Very columbian and very similar terpenes to the black Oldtimers Hazes. But the effect is more complex than OTH. While another pheno of OH90 x THH was almost like smoking columbian red import in 1993.
Therefore for me very columbian and very dominant the THH selection used in that cross. Nothing like in Thailand at all and very different from everything I have seen in Seedsman OH. I am not sure, but I guess the THH is via Raco and what he shows seems very columbian too.
First two pics is my PH mother grown by a friend.
The 3rd grow in his life. The first was Positronics Haze, Silver Pearl and Durban Poison that we did together in 1996.
Very columbian and very similar terpenes to the black Oldtimers Hazes. But the effect is more complex than OTH. While another pheno of OH90 x THH was almost like smoking columbian red import in 1993.
Therefore for me very columbian and very dominant the THH selection used in that cross. Nothing like in Thailand at all and very different from everything I have seen in Seedsman OH. I am not sure, but I guess the THH is via Raco and what he shows seems very columbian too.
First two pics is my PH mother grown by a friend.
The 3rd grow in his life. The first was Positronics Haze, Silver Pearl and Durban Poison that we did together in 1996.
The pedigree of outback uses 3 females nh21 nh35 and hemp tia nev utilized his ghost gene concept like stone guru as well.
First cross is nevs favorite tia female x nh35(reversed)=f1 tia35 female selection. This is the outcross part of outback
Next the tia35 female was reversed to pollinate nevs favorite nh21. This is the back backcross part of outback. This concept works by increasing heterologulus exchanges between the tia and nh35. Since nev felt tia was closest to the haze a/first haze this added new alleles without diverging from haze best qualities. The nh 21 is the recipient of the new genetic material and it greatly increased the diversity plus more phenos closer to haze A/first haze line which was lost. Hempy hooking nev up w tia brought great times for haze lovers
NH21 X [(TIA X NH35(R)]
First cross is nevs favorite tia female x nh35(reversed)=f1 tia35 female selection. This is the outcross part of outback
Next the tia35 female was reversed to pollinate nevs favorite nh21. This is the back backcross part of outback. This concept works by increasing heterologulus exchanges between the tia and nh35. Since nev felt tia was closest to the haze a/first haze this added new alleles without diverging from haze best qualities. The nh 21 is the recipient of the new genetic material and it greatly increased the diversity plus more phenos closer to haze A/first haze line which was lost. Hempy hooking nev up w tia brought great times for haze lovers
NH21 X [(TIA X NH35(R)]
thh f2 pheno 3
Here's the seeds created when the outback viet male rubber band man grew pistils/turned female and pollinated themselves. Very small can't pick up with fingers. The mature one has the wild type carnuckle on one end which is where seed attached to bract. This is also seen in grinspoon.wild type seeds self distribute by shattering out of bracts when mature. The Second picture is an immature seed I picked off to show where the carnuckle attaches and the green fuzzy covering seeds grow in before ejection. Wild type seeds germination rate outside of wild very low about 4 percent. Seeds need cold stratification treatment to increase germ rate. The seeds these plants popped out of were not wild type they were black/brown mottled. The semi feral north Vietnam line male most likely linked up with an ancestral complementary gene and caused this transgressive phenotype not seen In either parent. A very strong endorsement of dj9 Vietnam "landrace haze."
This one really is reminiscent of my minty girl. The crystals and the hairs especially! Was this from that mom or was it just labeled as THH f2? She looks like she will need a few more weeks. How far along is she? 12/12? Thank you very much for sharing! When I get going again I want to test the THH x f13. Might hit some Cindy with the THH too.
Best to everyone! Glad to see th
LT
Looks alot like the minty mom. Was this labeled mint thh or f2? Looks like shes got a few weeks to go. How far along? 12/12? Looking great!
LT
@LostTribe Yes it’s from the minty mom. I made more seeds with it and the 5 males from same mom for fun(just like 20 seeds). I have the octopus mom seeds too. Will run them too and use the pollen from the mint mom males(frozen) on them too.
I want to run the c99 thh crosses you gave me too.
I like growing these sativas now in small 1 gallon pots and promix bx(would like to use hp or even perlite if I wasn’t hand watering don’t want them to wilt) with hydro ro water. Low ppm feed every time 6.4 ph.
I also used the mint mom males(5) pollen on Johnnychicago metal o. Haze line, pollinated 4 females with it. Pollinated mm x thia78 with it too and pan-o-haze. Also used it on the Punto rojo x Congo females pollinated 5 of them with it all labeled.
Also used thunk pollen and pink pan-o-haze x nl87 and Punto rojo x Congo pollen on all of the above too.
I want to run the c99 thh crosses you gave me too.
I like growing these sativas now in small 1 gallon pots and promix bx(would like to use hp or even perlite if I wasn’t hand watering don’t want them to wilt) with hydro ro water. Low ppm feed every time 6.4 ph.
I also used the mint mom males(5) pollen on Johnnychicago metal o. Haze line, pollinated 4 females with it. Pollinated mm x thia78 with it too and pan-o-haze. Also used it on the Punto rojo x Congo females pollinated 5 of them with it all labeled.
Also used thunk pollen and pink pan-o-haze x nl87 and Punto rojo x Congo pollen on all of the above too.
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Johnny's OHaze looks like a winner all day in my opinion. It might be a while but next time I run something so long that would be on my list to try out. Great job! I have switched Cindy's since I made those I sent. These new ones are a near perfect representation of the original line. Happy to share when I get back. I have P1 THH pollen frozen from 4 or 5 males which I want to get on these Punch cindy and maybe even some of this older Serious AK I plan to run.@LostTribe Yes it’s from the minty mom. I made more seeds with it and the 5 males from same mom for fun(just like 20 seeds). I have the octopus mom seeds too. Will run them too and use the pollen from the mint mom males(frozen) on them too.
I want to run the c99 thh crosses you gave me too.
I like growing these sativas now in small 1 gallon pots and promix bx(would like to use hp or even perlite if I wasn’t hand watering don’t want them to wilt) with hydro ro water. Low ppm feed every time 6.4 ph.
I also used the mint mom males(5) pollen on Johnnychicago metal o. Haze line, pollinated 4 females with it. Pollinated mm x thia78 with it too and pan-o-haze. Also used it on the Punto rojo x Congo females pollinated 5 of them with it all labeled.
Also used thunk pollen and pink pan-o-haze x nl87 and Punto rojo x Congo pollen on all of the above too.
The Mint THH is my favorite pure sativa I've ever had. Its top notch. I hope yours turns out!
LT
this tom hill outllier/throwback from mad macs seed making of thh also has wild type seeds which appear very similar to the outbackviet. it also shows many many aneuploid indicators and structure/leaf morphology is shared with extreme haze C progeny- soma g13 haze c f1, extreme haze mother sensic5 f3 150 day pheno, and this standout outback pheno, this plant has some crazy survival traits like glossy leaves, long fan leaf blades(high altitude) rubber yellow petioles and twisted/faciated nodes on top.
here are wild type seeds from china. w1 w2 are yunnan/tibet w3 and w4 are xinijiang. the yunnan/tibet are realted to indian ganja but more ancient. the xinijiang is generally where nld hashplants got their start as the ughyurs have been considered to have best hash throughout cannabis history
link to article-
here are wild type seeds from china. w1 w2 are yunnan/tibet w3 and w4 are xinijiang. the yunnan/tibet are realted to indian ganja but more ancient. the xinijiang is generally where nld hashplants got their start as the ughyurs have been considered to have best hash throughout cannabis history
link to article-
Link to the article isn't working. Xinjiang was an important supplier of hashish to India in the 19th century till 1935.
Whole-genome resequencing of wild and cultivated cannabis reveals the genetic structure and adaptive selection of important traits - BMC Plant Biology
Background Cannabis is an important industrial crop species whose fibre, seeds, flowers and leaves are widely used by humans. The study of cannabinoids extracted from plants has been popular research topic in recent years. China is one of the origins of cannabis and one of the few countries with...
bmcplantbiol.biomedcentral.com
Phenotype from Yunnan
I told Tom Hill that some of my aussie friends confirmed that tom hill is very thai dom, one of them said that it is almost identical to their Mango Heads, which was of thai origin.
and he said:
"Yes, the line is different from the more common Dutch hazes. When I was there in '94, I was smoking a very good pure haze everyday from one of the old Dutch shops, maybe dampkring? That was like more Colombian type leather and fresh sawn teak wood. That’s what I was expecting first time I grew the seeds. But something very different grows, it was almost exactly same like the Thai I grew many years before. I agree with your Aussie friends. It has other very complex things going on but it is very Thai heavy no doubt in my mind about that."
and he said:
"Yes, the line is different from the more common Dutch hazes. When I was there in '94, I was smoking a very good pure haze everyday from one of the old Dutch shops, maybe dampkring? That was like more Colombian type leather and fresh sawn teak wood. That’s what I was expecting first time I grew the seeds. But something very different grows, it was almost exactly same like the Thai I grew many years before. I agree with your Aussie friends. It has other very complex things going on but it is very Thai heavy no doubt in my mind about that."
heres the article link i accidentally put pdf linkLink to the article isn't working. Xinjiang was an important supplier of hashish to India in the 19th century till 1935.
Whole-genome resequencing of wild and cultivated cannabis reveals the genetic structure and adaptive selection of important traits - BMC Plant Biology
Background Cannabis is an important industrial crop species whose fibre, seeds, flowers and leaves are widely used by humans. The study of cannabinoids extracted from plants has been popular research topic in recent years. China is one of the origins of cannabis and one of the few countries with...
Phenotype from Yunnan
View attachment 18773383
Whole-genome resequencing of wild and cultivated cannabis reveals the genetic structure and adaptive selection of important traits - BMC Plant Biology
Background Cannabis is an important industrial crop species whose fibre, seeds, flowers and leaves are widely used by humans. The study of cannabinoids extracted from plants has been popular research topic in recent years. China is one of the origins of cannabis and one of the few countries with...
bmcplantbiol.biomedcentral.com
there are also a few more wild china/cannabis papers done before this most recent. 2018 a haplotype paper using chloroplastl dna uncovers highly diverse/wild populations between 30 and 42 lining up with korea and japan to a certain extent. this newest paper finds the north east china wild/feral best deposit of desirable wild germplasm which has been shaped by adaptating to high latitudes
Figure 1. Geographic location of the 43 populations of Cannabis analyzed in the present study and haplogroup distribution patterns of Cannabis (see Table 1 for population codes); population codes in black represent the wild samples and blue ones are the domesticated accessions. (B) The haplotype network generated from the 25 haplotypes of Cannabis; pie chart size corresponds to the sample size of each population (A) or haplotype (B).
these plants are included in the new paper
link to haplotype
Frontiers | Latitudinal Adaptation and Genetic Insights Into the Origins of Cannabis sativa L.
Cannabis is one of the most important industrial crops distributed worldwide. However, the phylogeographic structure and domestication knowledge of this crop...
www.frontiersin.org
hilligs evidence for cannabis speciation is best concept/paper to gain insight and context between china results and where they fit in to the drug,fibre,seed,hashplant,ganja since the chinese, south korean and japanese serve as the original progenitors all drug types and where haze fits in. hillig study discovered numerous exciting insights-
allozymes are studied to determine ancestor lineage and deciphering between wild/feral etc. all plants make these certain enzymes as part of their primary metabolism. however they also have huge implications for secondary metabolites. this method of determining lineage and traits of wild/feral/ancient cannabis because it deals with what the plant creates, how it does it, who it passed it on to and who can/cant be related since progenitor would need to a particular mutation to pass it down. the most important allozyme in the study was shikimate dehydronase. this enzyme is the last step to create PAL an aromatic amino acid who structure and strength determine the entire phenolpropanoid pathway. mutated allozymes in this category would cause a change in pre cursor for half the cannabinoid recipe which will in turn put our rarer cannabinoids. 3 specific very rare shikimate allozymes were found
skdh A was the rarest appearing in only south african, nigerian and colombian landrace
skdh B is conserved within ancient east asian lines from korea, japanm north esat china. but not found in the indian/nepal feral while
skdh F was the third rare shikimate allozyme and it was conserved int eh feral indian/nepal and nld ganja cultivars. also a small amount of ruderalis plants also had the skdhf as well
in other interesting new south affrican lines were missing skdh C which nearly all other plants had.
skdhF pre cursor pathway for feral biotype
skdhB chromene cannabinoid pre cursor east asian biotype
SkdhA- the south african, colombian and nigerian rare allozyme is not clear on cannabinoid difference im thinking this one could synthesize certain phenols which haze is very high in. this was the rarest mutant allozyme
its likely each of theses rare allozymes codes for minor cananbinoids created in niches which arent shared outside of the area. hillig uncovered that varin cannabinoids were found in the feral/indian group much more then anyone else. the same is said for chromene cannabinods(cbc cbl and cbt) which are only found in high numbers in east asian biotype. so it could be...
skdh C makes cbd pre cursor, not found in s africa
A total of 65 alleles were detected for the 11 enzymes that were assayed. Thirteen of these were excluded from the analysis because they appeared in just a single accession. Although they are not useful in this study for taxonomic discrimination, these alleles may indicate regions of high genetic. iversity. Ten of the 13 rare alleles were detected in accessions from southern and eastern Asia (India, Japan, Pakistan, South Korea), and just two were detected in accessions from Europe. T
he fiber/seed accessions assigned to the indica gene pool(korea,japan,china,vietnam( are genetically diverse. All but six of the 57 alleles detected in the indica gene pool were present in this group, including seven rare alleles that were detected in just a single accession.
The outliers in the upper left corner of the PC scatter plot are mostly hemp landraces from eastern Asia (china,korea,japan)that had allele frequencies outside the normal range, which sets them apart from the other indica accessions.
The narrow-leafleted drug accessions are relatively devoid of genetic variation, compared to the other conceptual groups recognized in this study. Even so, geographic patterns of genetic variation are apparent within this group. The 12 African accessions are from three regions: western Africa (Nigeria, Gambia, Sierra Leone), eastcentral Africa (Uganda) and southern Africa (South Africa, Swaziland, Lesotho, Zimbabwe). Sample populations of the two Ugandan accessions (Ug-1, Ug-2) consisted entirely of monoecious plants devoid of detectable allozyme variation. The position of these two accessions on the PC scatter plot represents a region of low genetic variation, with drug accessions from southern Africa and Southeast Asia situated nearby. A rare allele (SKDH-A) was found in all seven southern African accessions, but in only two other accessions, from Nigeria and Colombia. For the African accessions, an allele (SKDH-C) that was commonly found in most other accessions was not detected. The wide-leafleted drug accessions from Afghanistan and Pakistan (Af-1 thru Af-10, Pk-1) cluster with the other accessions assigned to the indica gene pool. Allele HK-B was found in nine of the 11 wide-leafleted drug accessions, and in a few hemp accessions from China and South Korea, but not in any of the narrow-leafleted drug accession
he role of human selection in the divergence of the C. indica and C. sativa gene pools is uncertain. Small (1979) presumed the dichotomy to be largely a result of selection for drug production in the case of the indica taxon, and selection for fiber/seed production in the case of sativa. The genetic evidence challenges this assumption, since the fiber/ seed accessions from India, China, Japan, South Korea, Nepal, and Thailand all cluster with the C. indica gene pool. An alternate hypothesis is that the C. indica and C.sativa hemp landraces were derived from different primordial gene pools and independently domesticated, and that the drug strains were derived from the same primordial gene pool as the C. indica hemp landraces. I
t is assumed that, in general, when humans introduced Cannabis into a region where it did not previously exist, the gene pool of the original introduction largely determined the genetic make-up of the Cannabis populations inhabiting the region thereafter. It remains to be determined whether the C. indica and C. sativa gene pools diverged before, or after the beginning of human intervention in the evolution of Cannabis. The amount of geneti
