exoticrobotic
Well-known member
The other side of a wormhole.
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Tom Hill Haze
- Thread starter Morphote
- Start date
The other side of a wormhole.
ledo
Chasing the Present
Haha - Oklahoma Cannabis - Texans Chinese ArmpitsI thought this whole time the real shit was in Oklahoma, with the Indians and shit.
Damn…. Now I gotta go explore Idaho.
60/70’s the true triangle was California, Michigan & upstate NY and that was primarily through the university systems, many years later I went through two of them and you could still clearly see the remnants, old burned out hippies whom owned headshops / grow stores whom let us park out back & buy off store hours our gear
only a river crossing separates some areas ,,so when you got thai it coulda been grown in laos or viceverca does it matter ? number 1 thing that matters for me with sats is effect ,,,, back to thh the bits of twig i posted earlier was from a thhf2 /6 and it was very similar to some mango laos plants ive had
NLbred
Well-known member
I took a pic of my 3 different phenos of Thh and not the best pic but as you can see they are very unique.. the one to the right is a couple weeks behind the other two at 11 weeks and to the right is 9 weeks and one bud. I also have an Oldtimer and original haze(purple) in there with the oldtimer being a wild and big jungle plant
NL
exoticrobotic
Well-known member
The middle one looks like Tommy Cooper
Lovely plants
Lovely plants
Stoneguru
Well-known member
There are always embellishments and bias.
When there was money to be made in illicit markets there is also misdirection. In fact. Misdirection and renaming was the entire seed game through the 90's.
Consider how many times 5Haze was renamed to hide it. Then explode that across continents.
I am certainly not questioning Thai plays a major roll in haze. However, I stay open to all possibilities particularly within the realm of human error or complexity.
The major equatorial polyhybrid booms and genetic reorganizations in the west happened as a result of military conflict, conquest and the mass migrations that result as well as new. routes of exchange that occur as a result.
This isn't just true of cannabis and this little window of time we are discussing, but of all time and all plants. Chaos and complexity.
Thailand is a hub of ancient trade routes along the artery of the Mekong river bordering Loas. Then impenetrable jungle that was fully penetrated from the Jars of clay down for over a decade couple with the mass migration of Vietnam to Thailand.
The period of time would have been a ripe with a swarm of equatorial hybrids or effectively SE haze to occured.
Modern qualities aside There is no question that cannabis is all over SEA. India to Korea, Cambodia and beyond. It's all over and all different.
Half million Westerners penetrated and traveled all over every nook of Viet, Laos, Cambodia and Thailand in places that have never been entered since. They did this over 10 years just after Cannabis was gaining broader interest in the states.
That's a lot of complexity and opportunity for a seed to be brought by a soldier and a pollen to drift a mile.
You asked why I thought Viet/Loas might be in haze.
There is a very very small number of haze plants that have a sharp penetrating top note that flares up like eucalyptus pine needle. Extremely bright.
It comes out in the first 5haze Nevil did relatively common. Less and less common after. I would say 5% or less of anything in that early period after. Not Piff, metal, savory, leather and all that other A5 C5 variations. More destructive or louder than any of them.
I ran numbers of all the old NL's. That is NOT the pine I am referencing. I tested and satisfactorily eliminated that possibility. Besides. When that profile displays it is on the haziest plants.
I came across it in Mekong Green variant of Viet 164 once. All top notes, but none of the base of haze. I just finished a project with the same Viet Dalat cut Snowhigh uses. Same wheel house. Dwight found it once in a Viet and has been pursuing that direction since.
Weigh that against the fact that this type is never described with Colombian or Thai by you or anyone else. Mexican has some bright top notes at times, but not like the others I mentioned
Good Haze has the exhale, but usually empty on the finish These Viet examples are the inverse and empty on the front end.
Anyway. It an ancestor outlier that pops up and gives haze it's flare up in the male C before it got selected into mango and Piff.
In summary, the entire jar of SE Asia was put into a shaker. If it makes you feel better we can say that these Viet examples are Thai that migrated to Viet, but that would also open possiblity. All of which are
There was the Thai Stick and then there was the Okie rope haze. The mother of all hazes
Seek the sharp pine needle top notes in THH. It's a rare rare type, but nothing like it. It wasn't a dominant type like Colombian and Thai.
I also went through 3 Loas asseccions, TLT Viet and Viet HOA BAC. All good but didn't find what I was specifically looking for. The Hao Bac was on the border of North and South Viet. South Chinese Korean origin commune immigrated there in the 16 or 1700s I think and had their own cannabis they grew there.
Medicinal cannabis was not exclusive to Thailand. More likely it was a hub of exchange that brought together various lines and opportunity over the centuries.
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Genghis Kush.
Well-known member
The first big load of Thai stick smuggled to the Us Surfers was grown in Thailand on farms between Udorn and Nakhon Phenom . A bunch of loads were sent after that and eventually more people got involved and the source location became varied between Thailand to Laos.
Anything that came out of Vietnam was being exported by cia, most likely
—-
“Besides being plentiful and cheap, Vietnamese grass also is particularly potent. Connois seurs talk ecstatically of the euphoria‐producing qualities of “Pleiku Pink,” which grows in the cool Central Highlands and “bleu de Hue,” found around the old imperial capital and named for the brilliant china ware once produced there.
The Vietnamese themselves are not big marijuana users, preferring instead to do their thing with beetlenuts and more heady opium. Some cf the fren etic young Saigon swingers dlo ble in pot periodically, but in the end they usually return to their maddening motorcycles and the mini‐skirted wonders who perch so appealingly on the pil lions.
“The first American combat unit had not been in Vietnam very long before it was noted locally that the big, fair‐skinned soldiers had an affinity not only for chewing gum but also for a weed that grew wild. Quickly, the entrepreneur that lurks in every Vietnamese took over, and almost overnight there were places in the fertile Mekong Delta where peasants were row cropping marijuana.
When the United States com mand learned of this agricultural brazenry, it immediately im ported Federal narcotics agents to direct a crackdown. They came on very strong, with pot sniffing police dogs, a series of surprise barracks inspections, television and radio commer cials and a program for train ing Vietnamese law officers in narcotics suppression. Even helicopters were enlisted in the struggle. One pilot took a bullet in the leg because a Vietcong believed he was the target of the low‐flying craft instead of an adjacent field of thriving mari juaha.
As in all campaigns in Viet nam, the American command is talking of victory in the war against the weed.
There is a body count for the number of plants killed. There are statistics for the amount of pot that has gone up in smoke without so much as a whiff getting into a human lung. Yes, there is even talk about Vietnamizing the crackdown, of policemen becoming more con scientious and less corrupt, of government leaders who under stand and care.” —- New York Times march 1970
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ledo
Chasing the Present
YES
Not sure I was whom asked but that's moot...... The past 5 years I've been growing a LOT of SE Asians, I know exactly what you're describing and I've referenced this many times, I called/call it Minty Menthol sweet pine, rosemary or something along those lines, but we are talking about the exact same things, some New Caledonia has it too, not surprising to me but it's a widespread, more common than not.....
There's also something unique in some SE Asians too that smells like plastic left out in the sun, not burning plastic but plastic in the hot sun, if anyone has smelled freshly rocked up blow still wet from the processing it smells like that too, that damn cabby in Acapulco all them years ago, that shit was tough to sniff - hahah but damn was it potent !
I think Tom's Haze came a bit later and definitely has some SE Asian in it, many of the others to me are very close to pure Colombian IME...
Peace
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@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
From my understanding, they were Communist.
Vietnam was once owned and run by France. From the late 1800's to 1954, Vietnam was part of a French colony called French Indochina.
The Vietnam War and the Global Influence of Thai Stick
During the Vietnam war, The United States constructed five military bases in Thailand, making it the main base for US soldiers. It was also the place where they all went when they had furlough. It is estimated that at most times during the war, there were more US soldiers in Thailand than there were in Vietnam. Cannabis was a popular indulgence amongst the American soldiers and a lot of them took the habit back home. Despite the existing Cannabis Act of 1934 which prohibited the import and export of cannabis, this was the start of Thailand's underground cannabis trade and the influence of "Thai Stick”.From the time of the Vietnam war, until the late '80s, one of the biggest drug smuggling operations in the world was run out of Bangkok, specialising in the legendary Thai Stick, shipping hundreds of tons of it all over the world, from Australia to South Africa. In a report published in 2001, The United States’ Drug Enforcement Administration claimed that Thailand was the major grower of cannabis in Southeast Asia in the 70s and 80s.
At some point in the 70s I believe it was the Thai government cracked down on cannabis because of pressure from the US government and that is when a lot of it was grown in the Golden Triangle.
ledo
Chasing the Present
Are you sure!?
, again speaking in absolutes can be dangerous..... I did a quick search of mint & me... I agree it's not in Colombian but definitely is in SE AsiaEucalyptus features a distinct camphoraceous smell, which some people describe as sharp and slightly medicinal — kind of like rosemary. It's a multifaceted forest scent with hints of mint, honey, and citrus. Imagine hiking along an airy stream inside of a sunny pine forest.
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@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
The biggest smugglers of Thai sticks and sadly heroin came from a syndicate formed during the Vietnam War made up of Government agencies and Military from America and Australia that continued to operated well after the war had ended. It all came to an end in the early part of the 80s, and at the same time we saw the end of the Thai stick exports.
The surfers and smugglers that are part of that book Thai sticks, they talked about Bangkok as the main hug for smugglers. Middle men would buy the cannabis from the farmers and take it all back to Bangkok, where it was graded and packed for export.
ledo
Chasing the Present
I think it's a tell of true SE Asian lineage, that and the ladyboys and boyladies too - oh the irony, people and their plants how they mimic each other -
I also think a lot of SE Asian cannabis is infertile & some fertile monoecious plants, stamen first at crotches only.... then pistols quite a bit later like normal flowers / female plants develop, I probably have put pictures of this somewhere too
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
The thing I have always loved about Haze is with in the Haze genetics you can dig up the old highs of both the old Thais and Colombians.
Both Thailand and Colombia has seen a huge change in the cannabis there over the many decades as a result of the war on drugs on the cannabis that was from there.
I see Haze as a time capsule.
Both Thailand and Colombia has seen a huge change in the cannabis there over the many decades as a result of the war on drugs on the cannabis that was from there.
I see Haze as a time capsule.
Stoneguru
Well-known member
"Never" was a misuse of wording in my part. It is a SE Asian feature described in some Laos and Viet and it is sometimes found in them, but very rarely described in Thai accessions.Are you sure!?
View attachment 19111543
Eucalyptus features a distinct camphoraceous smell, which some people describe as sharp and slightly medicinal — kind of like rosemary. It's a multifaceted forest scent with hints of mint, honey, and citrus. Imagine hiking along an airy stream inside of a sunny pine forest.
I have run several of the Lao and Viet that had the descriptors you mentioned such as Mint. In the hunts that I did the mint was quite different than what I am referencing in haze.
My haze lines test very high for Ocimene and Eucalyptol. In the smoking Eucalyptol does contribute to the cool burn or back of pallet exhale I associate with good hazes but it is not have the top notes I'm referencing
Much can be lost in translation as well.
Anyway. I am in agreement. The only place I have noted this profile that is found in haze personally has been in collections from Vietnam and or Mekong Green type in Loas..which borders Thai etc.
The majority of everything Thai does not describe this and everyone I know that has greater experience than me growing Thai does not describe the sharp pine needle camphor profile either. This makes me think it is a dominant trait from different parts of SE Asia than Thailand.
Human being and earth work are not static stationary events. They are dynamic and complex.
Mexican can also have some bright sharp qualities though different such as wintergreen. The best Haze I ever smoked was not even in the same category as the hazes since on effect or profile. I very strongly believe part of the profile came from SE Asia and am not convinced it was Thai alone based on peoples written experiences.
It also had trichomes coating every needle thin stem down to the trunk. Completely glistening as much as any flower. This is more commonly a Mexican trait.
In any event. They are extreme outliers in the haze of the last 25-30 years. Selections have favored the piff Incenses, mangos, metals and hardwoods, leather etc.
that this haze type is an outlier is an indication that there are other genetics in haze then the common narrative limits it to
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Stoneguru
Well-known member
@led05 What are the specific SE Asia lines I can run that have the sharp clean pine needle profile. I ran the Luang Prbang, Muang Xia, Dalat, Viet 164, HOA Bac, and TLT North Viet ..there was one other. I still have an increase Fets original 164 op to explore.
A lot of good, but only one green 164 and the Dalat snowhigh uses had it so far. I usually run a landrace around the haze perimeters and don't have one selected for this winter yet.
A lot of good, but only one green 164 and the Dalat snowhigh uses had it so far. I usually run a landrace around the haze perimeters and don't have one selected for this winter yet.
the minty type and sweet candied type of smells and tastes have been in the limited se asain hybrids that I have grown like mullum, super laos x haze, outback haze x nh/mm. Have some cambodian/laos starting to grow which I am sure will have these type of smells and tastes too, nothing else quite like it. I love the colombians but that se asain smell and taste is top notch for me, just something about it.
Stoneguru
Well-known member
I'm not familiar with the sweet candied type specifically. There was something like orange chewable vitamin in a MM cross I tried awhile back.
I tried looking for the super Loas haze you mentioned awhile back, but couldn't
Which SE Asia collections would you recommend for finding it?
Anyone got a hit on this in THH yet? It's wild to think of the odds of Nevil's finding male C which had this. It sounds like he has teek, metal and mango in there for the more favorable profiles.
I’ve only grown a lot of Mullumbimby crosses and mm/thai78 there was a lot of discussion about which thai78 was used if it was hempy’s, but I think it was maybe Swiss Thai? Ssstn had two plants out of 10 that was very much the same but with some sssdh terps too. Nh21 x mm I didn’t find them, but in outcrosses and s1 I did.
Tom hill haze I found 1 with the same profile minty camphor + with metal pheno that was very close to a mm/thai78.
Seedsman was mostly Colombian that I grew in terpene profile.
I have not grown any pure lines and I am chasing the same terpene profile, I think it may be found in pure mm? I’m curious about that line.
Tom hill haze I found 1 with the same profile minty camphor + with metal pheno that was very close to a mm/thai78.
Seedsman was mostly Colombian that I grew in terpene profile.
I have not grown any pure lines and I am chasing the same terpene profile, I think it may be found in pure mm? I’m curious about that line.
