Thoughts On Hydroponics and RDWC Systems

[MediMary]

So dhf, what if I ditch the air pumps. do 2 of the13 gal mods(+epicenter) bump up the circulatory pump(750), and first push the water then hit flower reverse flow and "pull".

And have a second pump top feeding(1200 ?) or spraying like heaths latest design with the waterfall spraying effect. I would use my old containers but I lent them out, cant just swoop on them mid grow, LOL.

I dunno if you read all that thread over at the farm, but those little air pumps move a pretty decent amount of water I have used them for awhile, measured the temps today they increase 2 + degrees from ambient air~~LMAO ~~ FTW!

Im going to take some pictures of the alita pumping air and these little pumps, i think these little pumps fucking smoke these big pond pumps. Its pretty hilarious to me. like your bait aerator is a smoking good idea as well.

 

[Billy Liar]

nice discussion guys..
Between the clown and heath the mad scientist, i've learned so much about indoor gardening..
The clowns method was more of a lifestyle that needed to be folowed to the tee.... But was very inspiring to read his posts... And freedom statement... Also when he posted middle of the night, after pulling some chick in a club made me giggle..... Great threads, and a whacky guy... But what the guy knew/knows about hydro and environment.... Also electrics and firefighting.... The guy was a true inspiration to many... Me included...
Just google ”VPD and relative humidity” to understand where krusty was coming from... Didn't he have experience in commercial greenhouses??? No wonder he knew so much and was so cocksure...
If you can pick through the spew, the clowns threads are the best guides to indoor gardening I've ever read..
Strainbase.org did have some archived threads...
Theres my little ode to krusty... LOL
Peace
BL
ps fred, I need 1 more post and I can pm you to get those pics to you....hehee...

 

[DHF]

Yeah......I found the klown at an obscure euro weedsite back in late`94 , early `95 before he turned into such a dickweed and got banned from every major website , and learned a lot from him......but......

As in all my setups , I took what I learned and did it my way , and even though I followed the concept pretty much to a T , my setups were and have always been hard plumbed with cpvc....

I even cut out concrete floors for gravity assist drained rez`s , but I ran separate feed pumps and drain pumps to accelerate my flow FTW and insure faster recirculation ......

Krusty just got too full of himself like UCMENOW`s been at the farm , and I`ve got no use for egomaniacs , but I defended him for several yrs , till I got fed up......

Medi , I can`t answer your question cuz it`ll take doin it ta see how it works , as in all new hybrid setups , but it sounds good.....Handle it.......I`m sure by now you know just what it takes to NOT fail, so nuttin to it but ta do it......I`m pullin fer yas..........

Holler if I can help.......Billy`s a wealth of knowledge as well , so I`m sure things can get dialed 1 way or another......

Peace.....DHF...........

 

[Feijao]

I have read quite a bit of this and the last Heath post and have a couple questions.

1. I have now learned that its the bubbles disturbing the surface water that creates the most DO not the bubbles themselves as I thought up until last week. Would using air stones in a separate bucket and feeding to the plants via 1/2 feed line be beneficial at all? Since it seems that air stones in the bottom of buckets create quite a bit of heat at the root zone and lose function with large root mass later on in flowering.

2. I have ran Blazes RDWC and the UC. With Blazes I installed the drain lines at the bottoms of the buckets and did get a little clogging towards the end. If I were to install the drain lines at the top would the water at the bottom of the bucket be exchanged well? Does installing the drain lines at the top of the bucket allow you to blast the 1/4 feed lines without worrying about flooding the bucket?

3. In the Blaze system I was using 1/4 feed lines and 3/4 drain lines. If I were to build a system a little more like the ones you guys are discussing what would be the recommended drain line size if I were using the 1/2 feed lines? Is there a number of exchanges that I should be shooting for per hour?

Thanks so much guys for your help and info already posted. Just getting my feet wet so please bare with me

 

[cyat]

Hey MM maybe you are over thinking this whole thing. No reason to reinvent the wheel. Instead of modifying the uc to heaths setup, why not start from scratch and just follow the autocad? The mpbs, the undercurrent, and heaths system are similar w/ small differences, but the small things can have a big impact.
good luck

 

[MediMary]

I know what you mean buddy, I actually have some modules I built awhile back that worked really great (think I put a picture in here a few pages back), ofcourse with my luck I have them out on loan to a buddy ~ can't really swoop on them mid grow, LOL

I might just go and buy new containers as you suggested, but I would need to buy several other things as well.

So I was hoping to make use of what I already have instead of buying anything else(at least for this round,) if anything ill go back to my ol automated bubble bucket setup before running a "stock" UC system.

 

[DHF]

Hey Medi........I hope I`ve not been too negative in your thought process......

If so , I greatly apologize.......Was only trying to see what you`d come up with as the next "New hybrid setup" FTW.........

Good luck Bro......DHF...........

 

[MediMary]

nah man not at all dhf, I really enjoy talking with you bro.

In all honestly I think it would be much easier just to start from scratch, but man I would need to buy a drill(mine just cashed out) grommets, and other things and hell I am broke as a joke at the moment.

Christmas dec 25th, then my anniversary is jan 12, girlfriends birthday is feb 4th then valentines day on the 14th, FTW!!!!!!

Take all my money I didnt want it anyways

 

[Billy Liar]

Take all my money I didnt want it anyways

I hear ya MM...
We aint all millionaire playboys like fred... LOL.. but guess he's put in the effort..

peace
BL

 

[MediMary]

snap I just seen your sig man, I be reading now ; )

 

[DHF]

I`m a comfortable redneck......worst case scenario........Ya`ll`s time is right in front of yas.......

Peace....DHF...........

 

[MediMary]

doesnt take a million in the bank to live like a millionaire

 

[smokestack23]

I haven't read the whole thread so I probably should keep quiet. I have a hybridised, bastardised diy system or 3 that are running more than perfectly. There are enough pros following this that I probably wouldn't have anything constructive to add and I don't want to change my systems...


BUT...I have to add ONE thing. Increased pressure does not mean increased flow. Smaller pipes or tubes..whatever...will NOT allow more flow.
I've been out of school for a long time but isn't it called Bernouille's Principle? Whatever it's called, it says
When pressure increases flow decreases and vise versa (well..it doesn't say vise versa but..). It's what hydraulic systems are based upon..that and Pascal's law that says when you exert pressure upon water it exerts that pressure in all directions or whatever...that one isn't important here.

Point is...increased pressure = decreased flow
increased flow=decrease in pressure.
There is absolutely NO arguing that fact..that principle..that LAW of physics.

YMMNV

Peace and OUT!

 

[stickythumbs]

i have read many a thread on different rdwc type systems including heath robinson, blazeoneup, and big toke. i made a thread asking the minimum or preffered hight of a waterfall for creating the DO. it was pointed out to me that the purpose for both the waterfall or an air pump was to disrupt (not real technical i know) the surface of the water, thereby creating higher DO in the water.

i could be wrong since my brain is a little scattered due to reading so many (including the 3 listed above) threads about rdwc, high flow rdwc, bio - buckets, under current and so on as the list goes. i had just finished typing about 6 or 7 paragraphs of bs that i thought would be irrelevant so i erased it and will get on to the main event.

i read through big tokes bio-bucket sticky and suggested that those with a limited amount of vertical space add an additional pump to go up and loop back into their res to create a waterfall. i know both the air and water pump add heat to the res water, but which one would add less?

i would think it only takes about 1/4 of the flow that most people use for their feed lines. i'm sure someone has already thought of this and more than likely decided against it, but i have not seen it mentioned yet. i'm sure most of the people on this site have forgotten more about growing than i know, but i would like to know if this is would be of any benefit over an air pump.

 

[petemoss]

......
3. In the Blaze system I was using 1/4 feed lines and 3/4 drain lines. If I were to build a system a little more like the ones you guys are discussing what would be the recommended drain line size if I were using the 1/2 feed lines? Is there a number of exchanges that I should be shooting for per hour?

...

I would say ten to fifteen times turnover. That's what bio-bucket growers were aiming for when these streaming buckets systems first started. That was nearly ten years ago when Hurtback introduced his bio-bucket system on Overgrow. Hurtback was an aquarist who maintained aquariums for a living. He had severe back problems and said he wanted to create a grow method that wouldn't require lugging pails of water around. I just wanted to say that because it wasn't doubleD or texas kid or even heath robinson who invented these streaming buckets. Hurtback was the first to use rapid water movement to super-charge DWC.

So if you are growing in five-gallon buckets, you would need to feed each bucket 50-75 gph. Some tried to boost their turnover to 20 or so but found that they couldn't drain fast enough. (Half inch feed and 1.5 inch drains). Plus, Hurtback explained, with too much flow, the roots got damaged, sort of a "windburn" effect from rubbing against each other. You'll know you're doing it right when you can get roots like Heath showed or like Hurtback got, dense feeder roots that completely fill the bucket. having trouble with pics tonite but let's see if I can show some bio-bucket roots...

 

[Billy Liar]

Originaly posted by Heath Robinson
In the early nineties I was growing and experimenting with dripper systems, after running things for a while I noticed that if I increased the flow rate to the drippers the plants grew and flowered more quickly.

This led me to install bigger and larger bore dripper pipes, I had just modified one system before I went away for a week, when I came back the plants were all much larger as expected but what I didn't expect was the flow rate had been too high and as the roots had grown the roots had blocked the drain and were growing fully flooded! thats when I had a eureka moment and went and bought some brewing and builders buckets and started experimenting.

The basic idea is very very simple you basically have a bubbler bucket but instead of having the nutrients just sat in the tub you recirculate them at a high rate from a external rez so the nutrients are in continual motion.

thats more than ten years if heath's telling the truth
peace
BL

 

[petemoss]

Damn, you're right, Billy. Then I stand corrected. Heath is a straight-up guy and I'm sure he's telling the truth!

 

[DHF]

Well Smokestack , there`s no arguing with physics now is there...but how do you maintain flow once the bottom containers are slap full of roots and flow comes to a screaching halt.....and Petemoss you`re absolutely right about too much flow is not a good thing due to stressing rootmasses as Heath has preached for yrs and yrs.......

I also remember Hurtback`s setup st OG , but not many folks jumped on that bandwagon cuz everyone was kissin Krusty`s ass chasin 3 lb + plants , just like all who fell in with Doubled`s at the farm few yrs back with his genetic freak G-13 plant......

Now UC`s are the new kid on the block with their own hurdles and obstacles to overcome for consistent production........

Heath`s also preached about bigass air diffusers under huge rootmasses causing heat as well as plant stress for as long as I`ve known him......

Certainly there`s a fine line between not enough flow , and too much causing stress to roots as well as drain clogging to boot , and that`s why I said earlier about running "tees" in the bottom containers to divert accelerated flow away from the rootzones , with separate feed pumps alternating flow direction to train and push rootmasses away from feed/drainholes , but that`s what I would do if I were to DIY a similar setup ......

I`m sure there`d be some trial and error before dialing it in , but that`s normal with any hybrid setup.....

I usedta run ebb and flow table "drain fittings" with the screens inside my ebb and flow bucket bottom containers for clog prevention , and blazeoneup soon followed suit with his RDWC setups .......

I also usedta blast feed and drain in and out of my buckets 3 times during lights on with no ill effects on the rootzones whatsoever from the bigass inline pumps I used outside my rez`s , but it was only every 4 hrs , and I can certainly see where constant flow in 1 direction could be detrimental to feed/drainlines if not modified.........

Good luck on your hybrid setup Medi.....

My 2 cents from all those yrs.....DHF.........

 

[MediMary]

billy & DHF
(thank you both for always taking time to answer my questions!)


Like i frequently say, im here to learn, not learn anyone.

plus there are personal growers and commercial growers, heath(more of a personal grower) talked about more lights you add, then you have to add chillers/ac. and you hit a point of diminishing returns.

I was looking at the pump you are using billy, that thing is sick.
although it seems to me like it would be hard to scale things up to a 20 site system using these techniques.

(maybe it wouldnt be that hard ~ never tried, lol).

If I was a commercial grower my main concern would be how many pounds I harvest at the end, as a personal grower I want to grow the best herb I can, while doing it as efficiently as possible.

 

[DHF]

Medi.....Heathie runs more rooms than Days Inn...taught me all I ever knew about perpetual rooms finishin 1 behind the other FTW.......but....

We`ve always strived to provide waaaay more than a commercial product while dialing setups and squeezing yields out as well..........

Never been a personal grower in his life.........He just don`t show all his shit...

He doesn`t post as much cuz of wifey and children happenin in the last few yrs , but believe this....Heath`s workin....and ridin his scooter......

He`s ADHD and tries new shit on the regular , but has always had a soft spot for big plants.......and especially motivated since Doubled`s posed those so-called 4 lber`s at the farm when Heath schooled his ass at HG for a while and then some....

Thus why his new thread here showed a plant 4 oz`s short of 5 lbs , and God only knows what he`ll come up with next.......

Said it`s gonna be an "Aero setup".......Gonna be nasty I`m sure......

Peace......DHF.........