the "real" landrace debate

[Commonwealth]

Thule I'm sorry but go pick up Clarke and Merlin's new book. Just do it. You're too enamored with your own theories. There is solid science and genetic testing to support their argument for the post-Colombian introduction of cannabis to the Americas.

Too many people here who have never read the leading cannabis botanists. The future is now, in that much of the research has already been done - you just have to take the initiative to read it instead of talking about "sufficient evidence".

 

[resin_lung]

What a great read! On my third go around. It's doomed to look like my copy of Marijuana Botany. I won't be writing notes or underlining anything in this book.

 

[Thule]

Thule I'm sorry but go pick up Clarke and Merlin's new book. Just do it. You're too enamored with your own theories. There is solid science and genetic testing to support their argument for the post-Colombian introduction of cannabis to the Americas.

Too many people here who have never read the leading cannabis botanists. The future is now, in that much of the research has already been done - you just have to take the initiative to read it instead of talking about "sufficient evidence".

What I posted on the previous page is not my theories, it's mainstream science. If you read what I said, I didn't claim anything about cannabis. The Polynesian connection is just something people need to be aware of because in the old paradigm the Pacific Ocean was seen as a barrier, and we're now beginning to see it as a highway. Coincidence or not, yesterday a new documentary aired on national tv about Easter Islanders and their navigational abilities, they made it to the Americas. I'll try looking it up, it's fascinating!

I just want people to look at the new evidence and not dismiss radical theories based on outdated ideas. Unfortunately I can't get people to comment on any of that, instead they want to see me as the opposing team or something, lol. Like I said I don't believe in pre-columbian cannabis myself, but I accept the fact that we have only scratched the surface when it comes to pre-columbian contact and because of that I wouldn't bet my life on any theory until we have a clear picture. In 20 years time the school books will tell a very different story, take my word for it.

That Clarke book btw will be in my hands on christmas, I'm sure it rocks!

 

[Thule]

Kinda sounds like we're all on the same page regarding what the books say vs what they'll say when there's sufficient evidence to rewrite them. I love discussing both subjects, but I do very much see them as two distinct subjects.

Thule, that pic cracked me up!!! That guy is totally working the Einstein angle with his hair! It gets wilder and wilder each time. I'd like to know more about those dwarfs in Peru? Do you have a link or know the issue of high times? I can't seem to find it.

I can only find little snippets of info by googling pito moke easter island, the article itself is gone.

 

[Thule]

I did manage to find the documentary though! Watch it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iipShmx3ttA

I'm trying hard to stir up some debate here but no one is touching any of the research I'm posting. You're not bringing anything to the conversation when you just tell people to read up. Examine the evidence, chew it up. Then we can debate.

 

[resin_lung]

Yeah, that's all I could find when I googled it. Thanks for checking

I hope you like the book. I' m wondering if you'll feel any different after you check it out. I'm also wondering if you think Clarke would have seen all/most/some of the info your presenting or thought of these and other possibilities over his looong career? And if so, why he chose to write what he wrote. I know "there's no way of knowing" but my guess is he has. I guess we'll find out after Christmas! It really is a good book, and the good ones in regards to cannabis are few and far between.

I just have trouble questioning people far better equipped and far better connected with much more at stake I. He's like Gene Shoemaker and I'm this kid with a telescope. I'm not saying the kid with a telescope ain't gonna get lucky and rewrite the books. I'm saying at that point R.C. will add a chapter to the second edition. Anyhow, I don't wanna stop anybody's fun. My GF took a creative writing class and had a blast and I enjoyed reading her work. So please continue.

 

[Storm Shadow]

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/342/6165/1241089

The Amborella Genome and the Evolution of Flowering Plants

Introduction
Darwin famously characterized the rapid rise and early diversification of flowering plants (angiosperms) in the fossil record as an “abominable mystery.” Identifying genomic changes that accompanied the origin of angiosperms is key to unraveling the molecular basis of biological innovations that contributed to their geologically near-instantaneous rise to ecological dominance.



Graphic

Amborella trichopoda, an understory shrub endemic to New Caledonia, is the sole surviving sister species of all other living flowering plants (angiosperms). The Amborella genome provides an exceptional reference for inferring features of the first flowering plants and identifies an ancient angiosperm-wide whole-genome duplication (red star). Amborella flowers have spirally arranged tepals, unfused carpels (female; shown), and laminar stamens. Amborella trichopoda, an understory shrub endemic to New Caledonia, is the sole surviving sister species of all other living flowering plants (angiosperms). The Amborella genome provides an exceptional reference for inferring features of the first flowering plants and identifies an ancient angiosperm-wide whole-genome duplication (red star). Amborella flowers have spirally arranged tepals, unfused carpels (female; shown), and laminar stamens.

Methods
We provide a draft genome for Amborella trichopoda, the single living representative of the sister lineage to all other extant flowering plants and use phylogenomic and comparative genomic analyses to elucidate ancestral gene content and genome structure in the most recent common ancestor of all living angiosperms.

Results
We reveal that an ancient genome duplication predated angiosperm diversification. However, unlike all other sequenced angiosperm genomes, the Amborella genome shows no evidence of more recent, lineage-specific genome duplications, making Amborella particularly well suited to help interpret genomic changes after polyploidy in other angiosperms. The remarkable conservation of gene order (synteny) among the genomes of Amborella and other angiosperms has enabled reconstruction of the ancestral gene arrangement in eudicots (~75% of all angiosperms). An ancestral angiosperm gene set was inferred to contain at least 14,000 protein-coding genes; subsequent changes in gene content and genome structure across disparate flowering plant lineages are associated with the evolution of important crops and model species. Relative to nonangiosperm seed plants, 1179 gene lineages first appeared in association with the origin of the angiosperms. These include genes important in flowering, wood formation, and responses to environmental stress. Unlike other angiosperms, the Amborella genome lacks evidence for recent transposon insertions while retaining ancient and divergent transposons. The genome harbors an abundance of atypical lineage-specific 24-nucleotide microRNAs, with at least 27 regulatory microRNA families inferred to have been present in the ancestral angiosperm. Population genomic analysis of 12 individuals from across the small native range of Amborella in New Caledonia reveals geographic structure with conservation implications, as well as both a recent genetic bottleneck and high levels of genome diversity.

Discussion
The Amborella genome is a pivotal reference for understanding genome and gene family evolution throughout angiosperm history. Genome structure and phylogenomic analyses indicate that the ancestral angiosperm was a polyploid with a large constellation of both novel and ancient genes that survived to play key roles in angiosperm biology.

 

[Storm Shadow]

http://news.ufl.edu/2013/12/19/amborella-2/

New plant genome study may offer clues to improving all major food crops


Published: December 19th, 2013

Category: Research, Sciences


GAINESVILLE, Fla. — University of Florida researchers and their colleagues have sequenced the genome of the flowering plant Amborella for the first time, potentially revealing why flowers may have proliferated millions of years ago and offering clues for improving all major food crop species.

Appearing in the journal Science on Friday (Dec. 20), two separate studies analyze the Amborella genome and provide the first insight into how flowering plants differ genetically from all other plants, said study co-author Doug Soltis, a distinguished professor with the Florida Museum of Natural History on the UF campus. Amborella trichopoda, a plant found only on the main island of New Caledonia in the South Pacific, is unique as the sole survivor of an ancient evolutionary lineage that traces back to the last common ancestor of all flowering plants.

The first study, led by The Pennsylvania State University and co-authored by UF scientists, provides conclusive evidence that the ancestor of all flowering plants — including Amborella – evolved following a “genome doubling event” that occurred about 200 million years ago, Soltis said.

“Genome doubling may offer an explanation to Darwin’s ‘abominable mystery’ — the apparently abrupt proliferation of new species of flowering plants in fossil records dating to the Cretaceous period,” Soltis said. “When genome doubling occurred, some duplicated genes were lost over time but others took on new functions, including contributions to the development of floral organs.”

The second study, led by UF, describes a new strategy used to sequence and assemble the Amborella genome. Researchers say the new methods are applicable to most plants and animals with large, complex genomes, which contain substantial amounts of DNA, like Amborella, previously considered too problematic or expensive to tackle.

“Because of Amborella’s pivotal phylogenetic position, it is an evolutionary reference genome that allows us to better understand genome changes in those flowering plants that evolved later, including genome evolution and improvement of our many crop plants,” said Soltis, who also holds appointments in UF’s biology department and the UF Genetics Institute.

The studies are part of a large-scale project funded by the National Science Foundation involving scientists from multiple institutions worldwide, including the University of Buffalo, the University of Georgia and the University of California, Riverside.

Comparative analyses of the Amborella genome are already providing scientists with a new perspective on the genetic origins of important traits in all flowering plants — including all major food crop species. As the oldest surviving branch of angiosperms, the Amborella genome allowed researchers to estimate the linear order of genes in an ancestral eudicot genome and to infer lineage-specific changes that occurred over 120 million years of evolution in the core eudicot.

“Amborella had never been studied in any detail, so we started from scratch trying to put together this jigsaw puzzle of hereditary information by mixing methods that have never been used in combination before,” Soltis said. “Now we can assemble, sequence and evaluate complex genomes and answer fundamental biological questions.”

Without any genetic map or advanced knowledge of its genome architecture, UF scientists assembled the Amborella genome using next-generation sequencing technologies and high-throughput computing, which allow scientists to sequence and assemble genomes at a low cost and faster speed, said co-author Brad Barbazuk, a UF associate professor in biology and member of the UF Genetics Institute.

Researchers used an evaluation technique called fluorescence in situ hybridization to validate the genome, in which DNA segments are located on chromosomes with florescent dyes, and whole-genome mapping, which produces a high-definition image of DNA molecules and improves the genome assembly process, Barbazuk said.

“Our method has produced an exemplary genome assembly, and this method is not restricted to studying Amborella,” Barbazuk said. “However, it’s unlikely to fit every case, and that will give us the opportunity to look for new methods and make the process better.”

Study co-author Pam Soltis, a distinguished professor and curator of molecular systematics and evolutionary genetics at the Florida Museum and a member of the UF Genetics Institute, said previously, extensive time and resources were required to sequence and assemble large and complex plant genomes.

“Since these resources are unavailable for most species, the only organisms that could have their genomes sequenced until now were those with a long history of scientific study,” she said. “All kinds of evolutionary and ecologically important organisms were excluded from genome sequencing studies because there was no way to get the information that you needed to put it together.”

In addition to its utility in studies of flowering plant evolution, the Amborella genome sequence offers insights into the history and conservation of Amborella populations. There are fewer than 20 known populations in mountainous regions of New Caledonia, Pam Soltis said.

“Sequencing the genomes of individual Amborella plants across the species’ range reveals geographic structure with conservation implications and evidence of a recent genetic bottleneck,” Pam Soltis said. “A similar narrowing of genetic variation occurred when humans migrated from Africa to found modern-day Eurasian populations.”

 

[oldchuck]

SS, maybe you can explain why you think this study (which I don't understand at all) is relevant to a discussion of cannabis.

 

[gaiusmarius]

you guys need to use the ignore feature on each other. no one is interested in your personal bs and one man up man ship.

 

[farmerlion]

Landraces ? Studying Native American culture and their ceremonies. The tribal ceremonial smoke that was brought into the Dakota's was from the southern regions of current Texas and Mexico. The ceremonial smoke has been grown out for generations now on the reservations. It has never been on large scale but past from one family to another. Seven years ago I was gifted several seeds from an elderly woman of the Arikara nation. I have put the seeds under 600 watt hps lights. Then the plants go outside and are brought back inside to be finished in the fall. I'm trying to bring this rare treasure to the masses outside of the Reservation. See Grow Journals forum.

 

[Maggotbrain]

Indian ganja seeds came to Mexico in the nineteenth century. Patent medicine companies sold cannabis Indica, as they called it, for a hundred years or so all over the world. The British East India Company and others grew ganja in India and sold cannabis extract and flower tops to patent medicine companies. The patent medicine industry was completely unregulated before 1906 and they sold anything to anyone including heroin, morphine, strychnine, mercury, and other poisons. A byproduct of the cannabis Indica industry was hemp seed which was also sold worldwide for medicine and birdseed. Pet birds were very popular in Victorian times and enormous amounts of seed were shipped all over the world. The hemp seed trade started in the late 1700's and continued until 1938 when the USA finally imposed regulations on the patent medicine industry and the hemp seed industry fell victim to the new regulations. The cannabis Indica industry was crushed because it was part of a trade that also sold incredibly dangerous substances to anyone with money. Marijuana began to show up in Mexico in the mid 1800's when the hemp seed industry was getting into full swing due to the advent of steamships which made shipping much more reliable. There has been speculation that Spanish hemp transformed into psychoactive marijuana but a genetic study at Indiana University in 2003 indicated that hemp genetics are completely separate from ganja genes. Here is a link to the study: https://www.researchgate.net/public...idence_for_Speciation_in_Cannabis_Cannabaceae With Indian hemp seed still being imported into Mexico as late as the 1920's, is Mexican marijuana really "landrace" at all. Jamaican ganja and Brazilian marijuana also appeared around the same time. Colombian and Panamanian marijuana didn't appear until the early 1900's and appears to have been imported from Jamaica and Trinidad by banana workers who worked for the United Fruit Company. Are any of the imported varieties really landraces? I started researching this thinking I would find small farmers who developed their own varieties from Spanish hemp over hundreds of years but that turned out not to be the case at all.

 

[yesum]

^^ Interesting. I had thought the Mexican pot was grown from around 1500 and not 1800. Unless the Spanish had drug cannabis with them, not impossible I think.

 

[Roms]

Vibes, in my opinion the Mex' NLD origin spread has come from the Ouest via Hawaii and the Pacific Ocean a longtime ago, Austronesian culture. Then probably a second wave of NLD from Africa by the Atlantique Ocean, Olmeque culture.

I think that there have been only NLH from Spanish!

 

[Hempy McNoodle]

so was hemp brought to the new world by early sailors and or with the slave trade respectfully? or by "landbgridgers" during the last ice age?

or are south american and mexican kinds really native to their regions?

or by "landbgridgers" during the last ice age?

i have never seen any mayan artifact with cann in it. just mushrooms. same with the aztecs and incas.

is there a theory? or actual proof to back up either story? verifiable evidence would be awesome...

med-man

I believe a more plausible theory than "landbridgers" is ancient Malaysian maritime travelers. These people are believed to be the means by which potatoes and sweet potatoes arrived in northern south America long before European settlers arrived in the "new world." So, my guess is that Cannabis in the Americas is descended from Asian Cannabis (pre-Columbus).

 

[Maggotbrain]

^^ Interesting. I had thought the Mexican pot was grown from around 1500 and not 1800. Unless the Spanish had drug cannabis with them, not impossible I think.

Hey Yesum,
The Spanish did try to grow hemp in Mexico starting in the early 1500's and made many attempts until the left in 1820 but the Indiana University study pretty much eliminates hemp as the genetic base for Mexican marijuana or any other pot. They charted the genetic info and psychoactive cannabis is mostly separate from that of Hemp. Download the study and take a look at figure 4. It's got some interesting info. Thai weed and African weed are also separate from other pot varieties but closer to other psychoactive cannabis than they are to hemp. Mexican pot falls right in the middle of the Indian cannabis group. According to the Indian Hemp Report of 1893-4, Ganja was grown in northern India from Burma in the east to Afghanistan in the west. Any of those genes could be part of Mexican pot genes. In the early 1900's Chinese hemp seeds also began to be traded in the west and there is evidence that seeds were shipped to Mazatlan. In 1920 Mexico outlawed pot and in the following decade they started busting people shipping seeds from San Franciso to Mazatlan. There are court records of the proceedings. One of the busts was of seeds coming directly from Hong Kong. Eli Lilly and Parke Davis also grew pot in Mexico and sold it as "Cannabis Americana" in the early 1900's so those genetics probably make up part of Mexican pot.

 

[Hempy McNoodle]

Landraces ? Studying Native American culture and their ceremonies. The tribal ceremonial smoke that was brought into the Dakota's was from the southern regions of current Texas and Mexico. The ceremonial smoke has been grown out for generations now on the reservations. It has never been on large scale but past from one family to another. Seven years ago I was gifted several seeds from an elderly woman of the Arikara nation. I have put the seeds under 600 watt hps lights. Then the plants go outside and are brought back inside to be finished in the fall. I'm trying to bring this rare treasure to the masses outside of the Reservation. See Grow Journals forum.

That sounds incredibly interesting. I couldn't find the grow Journal. Can you add a link? Are you going to produce seeds in pure form? I would love to learn more about this cultivar.

 

[ahortator]

Psychoactive Cannabis was grown in Mexico in the 18th C.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10609164.2020.1755941?journalC ode=ccla20

https://circulodepoesia.com/2015/11...ue-hacen-los-indios-de-los-pipiltzintzintlis/

Hemp from Spain was carried and grown in Mexico in the early 16th C. about 1519 by Pedro Cuadrado.

In 1545 hemp growing in México was encouraged by the Emperor Charles V.

About 1550 hemp growing was limited because Mexican people used it for a different purpose than its fibers

Hemp seeds were carried again from Spain to Mexico in 1777

https://books.google.es/books?id=p9UnEoYNH-oC&lpg=PR1&hl=es&pg=PR1#v=onepage&q&f=false

Also the oldest growing guide I know was printed in Mexico in 1796.

https://books.google.es/books?id=98pAt7EupZcC&printsec=frontcover&hl=es#v=onepage&q&f=false

If you look at Phylos some Mexican strains, well I think it is not very reliable, but...

https://phylos.bio/sims/sample/genotype/z814pz28

https://phylos.bio/sims/sample/genotype/pozr3p4g

They are close to hemp.

I know that in the old Spanish hemp genepool the B[SUB]T[/SUB] allele was present.

https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.3732/ajb.91.6.966

Also I know a farmer who was imprisoned because he saved hemp seeds from previous year and those plants increased the THC level over the legal %. Some of them reached 4,06%.

http://doctorcogollo.info/blog/el-c...sticia-condeno-como-narcotraficante--b99.html

 

[RingtailCanyon]

Medman is special. Landbgridgers? Genius.
roms in the 1973 Acapulco Gold movie they go to get the good stuff in Papanoa. Papanoa sounds like a pacific island to me 🏝

 

[Roms]

roms in the 1973 Acapulco Gold movie they go to get the good stuff in Papanoa. Papanoa sounds like a pacific island to me 🏝

Vibes RC very nice anecdote thank you!