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the "real" landrace debate

Thule

Dr. Narrowleaf
Veteran
Cannabis sativa
Origin
: Central Asia
Summary
: Long used as a psychoactive drug in Asia, a signature chemical from the metabolic
breakdown of this plant in the human body has been identified in Peruvian mummies dated from AD 100
to 1500.
Transfer:
either India (via the Pacific?) or the Middl
e East (via the Atlantic?) to the Americas
Time of transfer
: no later than AD 100
Grade
: A
Sources:
Cannabis sativa
—hashish, marijuana, Indian hemp
Int. Lib. Assoc. 1996, 561. Sanskrit:
bhanga, vijaya
Chopra
et al
. 1956, 48. Sanskrit:
ganjika, bhanga
Nadkarni 1914, 77.
Cannabis sativa
. Sanskrit:
vijayâ, siddhapatri.
Hindi:
ganja
. Arabic:
kinnab
.
Native of western and central Asia. Now cultivated a
ll over India and wild in the western Himalayas and
Kashmir. The plant is sacred to the Hindus.
Zeven and de Wet 1982, 71. Center of maximum dive
rsity in Central Asia. 149. There is a wild
form in Central Asia.
Jett (2004) reprises the literature on evidence for th
e mortuary use of hashish in the New World:
“Hashish or Indian hemp (
Cannabis sativa
), a native of western Asia, carried the alkaloid delta-9*
tetrahydrocannibinol (THC). The plant (commonly called “marijuana”), which has long been popular in
the Middle East for its psychoactive effects, is
generally assumed to have been a post-Columbian
introduction to the warmer parts of the New World.
However, Parsche, Balaba
nova, and Pirsig (1992b)
found THC (along with cocaine and nicotine) in the tissues, teeth, and hair of ancient naturally
mummified bodies from both the North Coast and the South Coast of Peru—in 39 of the 60 cadavers
tested and in a corporal distribution indicating an
te-mortem use. These mummies ranged in date from
about AD 115 to AD 1500.”
74
John L. Sorenson and Carl L. Johannessen, “Scien
tific Evidence for Pre-Columb
ian Transoceanic Voyages”
Sino-Platonic Papers
, 133 (April 2004)
Balabanova, Parsche, and Pirsig 1992b. Residues from hashish and cannabis were identified
chemically in cranial hair of pre-Columbian Peruvian mummies.
Parsche, Balabanova, and Pirsig 1993, 503. They anal
yzed hair, skin, muscle, brain, teeth, and bones
from 72 Peruvian (as well as11 Egyptian ) mummies and
found chemical residues of cocaine, nicotine,
and hashish and their metabolites in both sets of mu
mmies (16 of the Peruvian corpses revealed cocaine;
26 had tobacco traces; and 20 showed hashish).
Díaz 2003, 80. Marijuana (
cannabis
) may have been introduced to Mexico during the colonial period
as a source of fiber. Shortly afterward, the plant was used for ritual purposes by indigenous groups.
Famous Mexican scientist Alzate described its ritual use with a beautiful Náhuatl name,
pipiltzintzintli
[which actually implies a pre-Columbian
use, although it does not guarantee it].

http://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/spp133_precolumbian_voyages.pdf
 

orfeas

Well-known member
Veteran
...

we have to deal with known academically accepted history.
.....
the greeks had weed and they still fucked little boys so the morality argument is moot.

Herodotous for the first sentence
Plato for the latter
for the half-learned dodos
 

oldchuck

Active member
Veteran
I see you are still digging, Thule. That paper looks very interesting. Nice find. I've just started reading it. Cannabis in pre Colombian South America. How exciting. Also, nicotine in Egyptian mummies. The first products to go global.
 

Thule

Dr. Narrowleaf
Veteran
I see you are still digging, Thule. That paper looks very interesting. Nice find. I've just started reading it. Cannabis in pre Colombian South America. How exciting. Also, nicotine in Egyptian mummies. The first products to go global.

I'm always digging man :)

I think the presence of dwarf sativas in Peru isn't adequately explained by late introduction of cannabis from Africa or India. The morphology suggests something else..

The link with Easter island is now a proven fact, but it is not known whether or not cannabis had reached eastern Polynesia by that time. It certainly was present in Taiwan where the austronesians originate from, as well as the other South East Asian islands they must have passed through.

According to High Times there's also a weedy strain of cannabis called pito moke growing on Rapa Nui. I may have to go there!

800px-Langues-autronesiennes.png
 

med-man

The TRUMP of SKUNK: making skunk loud again!
Boutique Breeder
ICMag Donor
Veteran
there is land connecting most continents now underwater. who really knows in prehistory how the seeds came.

its runored the "phoenicians" came to the americas 3000 bc to later. they were seabearers and a reason why there are white staues and sculptures in the bolivian and incan regions

med-man
 

RonSmooth

Member
Veteran
when i lived in the bahamas i learned tons about the slave trade, so i will have to disagree.

big bull males (not racist) from certain tribes in west africa were used to just populate (copulate) any plantation they were sent to. the slave masters treated their slaves like we do livestock. they look for big, strong specimens. muscular etc. these prized males were distributed throughout the new world and treated like kings. all they did was eat and bang. it would be hard for them to bring seeds and even grow the stuff. this is how i heard it from a black bahamian history teacher. he even went on to ask me "didnt yu ever notic how superior in strength and athletics most western black people are?"

med-man

Using the phrase "big bull males" to refer to adult male africans IS actually racist. The fact that you included a disclaimer makes me think you already knew that.

And I wouldn't call being thought of as livestock as "being treated like kings" either. The whole little "breeding" thing sounds inaccurate at best and your teacher sounds like an idiot.
 

med-man

The TRUMP of SKUNK: making skunk loud again!
Boutique Breeder
ICMag Donor
Veteran
hey ron

i am just sharing what the guy said

take it up with him. a million iraqis have been killed the last 10 years and there will be millions more on the way with birth defects thanks to depleted uranium and arab propaghanda. i dont see anyone shedding a tear about that or how its okay because they are middle easterners/muslims

my quote is verbatim, and by no means my opinion nor promotion

med-man
 

RonSmooth

Member
Veteran
hey ron

i am just sharing what the guy said

take it up with him. a million iraqis have been killed the last 10 years and there will be millions more on the way with birth defects thanks to depleted uranium and arab propaghanda. i dont see anyone shedding a tear about that or how its okay because they are middle easterners/muslims

my quote is verbatim, and by no means my opinion nor promotion

med-man

I don't mean to accuse you but it didn't read like you were quoting when you used the phrase "big bull males".

Why the "not racist" disclaimer if you were quoting someone?

And you lost me on the Iraqi/Uranium/Arab Propaganda/Muslim thing.
 

med-man

The TRUMP of SKUNK: making skunk loud again!
Boutique Breeder
ICMag Donor
Veteran
hey ron

i was just tryna give an example of how people get offended when someone gives em the finger, but doesnt give a thought to the 250 million people gov'ts have killed last century

or the probably 250million more in the 500 years before that is all.

maybe it was a bad comparison?

i am always tryna put things in perspective

med-man
 

Dilbert Do

Member
Does exposing indica strains to shitloads of UV, as they would experience near the equator, make them long leafed indicas via gene expression n shit? Only legalization will tell.
 

OvergrowDaWorld

$$ ALONE $$
Veteran
Cannabis was growing everywhere on all continents in almost every equatorial zone.
Its just a matter of where the indicas come from and where the sativas come from, and we all know where they come from. To say the Americas didnt have weed until Europ brought it over is plain misinformation.
Marijuana grew different in different regions of the world, just like dog breeds are different in different parts of the world.
Would you think that dogs werent around America until Europeans brought them over?
Thats just irrational wisdom. We all know that dogs came from the wolf.
Is there wolves in Russia and Canada when the Earth was formed? Yes!
Same as Cannabis. It was all over the planet since the age of men.
Animals and Plants have been spread around not just by man alone...but also by nature i.e. hurricanes, tornadoes,etc.etc.
European cannabis, fully seeded, could easily be ripped up by a tropical storm and it lands on a floating mass of ocean vegatation and ends up on the shores of Hawaaii or any islands.
Animals migrate vast distances yearly. Certain plants take advantage of animals, and their seeds stick in the fur.
Certain plants like dandalions take advantage of the wind to blow there seeds long distances.
Marijuana plants/seeds were on every continent from the beginning. To argue otherwise is rediculous.
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
More wisdom,
Can you please find any scientific article that shows Cannabis was in the new world pre-1492?
No you can not. The reason is simple, there was no Cannabis in the new world pre-1492.
You need to find a good book on the subject like Clarke's new book and read it.

http://www.amazon.com/Cannabis-Evol...&qid=1387304816&sr=1-1&keywords=robert+clarke

The first Cannabis was brought to the New World by the Spanish to I think Chile for hemp, that was in 1545 or around then.
You need to read before you spout misinformation.

Where are the ancient Cannabis pollen, seeds, fiber remains found in the new world? None have been found, zero. They find them everywhere in the old world, and Asia, Africa.
-SamS


Cannabis was growing everywhere on all continents in almost every equatorial zone.
Its just a matter of where the indicas come from and where the sativas come from, and we all know where they come from. To say the Americas didnt have weed until Europ brought it over is plain misinformation.
Marijuana grew different in different regions of the world, just like dog breeds are different in different parts of the world.
Would you think that dogs werent around America until Europeans brought them over?
Thats just irrational wisdom. We all know that dogs came from the wolf.
Is there wolves in Russia and Canada when the Earth was formed? Yes!
Same as Cannabis. It was all over the planet since the age of men.
Animals and Plants have been spread around not just by man alone...but also by nature i.e. hurricanes, tornadoes,etc.etc.
European cannabis, fully seeded, could easily be ripped up by a tropical storm and it lands on a floating mass of ocean vegatation and ends up on the shores of Hawaaii or any islands.
Animals migrate vast distances yearly. Certain plants take advantage of animals, and their seeds stick in the fur.
Certain plants like dandalions take advantage of the wind to blow there seeds long distances.
Marijuana plants/seeds were on every continent from the beginning. To argue otherwise is rediculous.
 
Last edited:

Dkgrower

Active member
Veteran
I agree with Sam

Lake sediments trap pollen and serve as a time intergrated record for what was cultivated by the pepol living near by - pepol need to go and find some solid evidence.
 

med-man

The TRUMP of SKUNK: making skunk loud again!
Boutique Breeder
ICMag Donor
Veteran
there are a ton of "die offs" of plants and animals a very very long time ago in north and sout america. so maybe canna was on the conitnent millions of years ago.

if hemp was around for ther incas and princas, we would find fishing ropes made from hemp fibres, or clothes, or carvings and pottery with the sacred plant on them. all we get is mushrooms occasionally

med-man
 

resin_lung

I cough up honey oil
Veteran
It's ancient aliens! The tv show that is!lol it trips me out what qualifies these days! Assumption after assumption. Entertaining, but far from factual. Possible or even probable is not enough for me.
 

resin_lung

I cough up honey oil
Veteran
Even in a debate?

I'll agree IF we do as "ancient astronaut theorist" do and add phrases like... "Isn't it possible then to suppose..... Or could we not then assume..." to the beginning of what were gonna call fact.
Again I say as far as cannabis being in the new world prior to the arrival of the Spanish, the possibles fall very short from what I'd like to call fact. I'm not even seeing any probables, unless I'm missing them.

And digging is good if you mean researching the papers published by the actual people who have actually dug. As it's been stated earlier, I too can't seem to find the papers where artifacts have been found.

No disrespect intended. I love the subject.
 
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