the "real" landrace debate

[romanoweed]

but @chi would you agree all southamericans are distinctly southamerican to a good degree? acording science cannabis came from somewhere elese. So, was it the selections of the Farmers? Do all southamericans have another Taste, another Prefferance. or is Southamerican just a specific composition of Hybridized races?

What is also very important in your discovery with 50 Generations inbreed lines, is that:
whoever grew it 50 years probably had no choice then to select for "the southamericen side of it".


So, if you select your psychedelic Southamerican cultivar in the North, imho you have no choice than to select strictly for Southamerican Qualities. Unless your Goal is to end up with just another European or Northern balanced-indica effect. And probably in the "transition phase" it wouldnt be interesting smoke neither
So my anwser is, its just cause we modern Preservers try to avoid it to change.

Im basing that assumtion on an idea that i once had: "why can i grow a shortflowering Thai in Europe, and find a propperly psychedelic effect, and no european Genetics, like Turkish would trip me out?" .
Why is no northern Cannabis AS psychedelic like a Thai (dont come me with psychedelic Afghanis, imho i never heard someone experience something AS psychedelic as Thai).
Cause the enviroment that helped shape this Trait.

Or just: why can something "enter" Europe, but never has been created here...
why can a psychedelic weed enter, but seemingly not been created here.. I mean in turkey we still can finish a Thai.

 

[romanoweed]

Further: a landrace (the one from the 70s) were created with a very soft selection. (compared to ours) .
They have let nature do its thing aswell.

The progeny of each year probably had alot more Nature-selection process in it. Per example the Snails, the wind, whatever natural imput was probably let much more room for play.
The natural influence was therefore stronger. They like said selected a smaller proportion of Strains out than we do with heavy bottlenecking.. the rest was let to survive in a Gardem.
Ok they used a garden, but probably not a very controlled garden with many influences..

We often shield seedlings from snails and help weak seedlings, they just saw in the field.. (survival of the fittest healthyest)
we bind each of our hanging plants, they rarely did. (survival of the endurable robust)
we make space for the slower growing plants, they probably not always did.(survival of the fastgrowers)

 

[romanoweed]

these two reasons: the intuitive selection of a modern grower of landraces, for just the old Southamerican Qualitites, cause thats all he want,
plus the far more shielded and controlled growenviroment prevented adaptation to a degree . thats my anwser.

 

[romanoweed]

if you once was standing in a FIELD of cannabis, you cound understand very easily how there is a Nature-influence.
(i only found densely sawed hemp photos, but its the same in a widespaced field, you would see couple broken-stems, you would see plants getting overgrown by faster ones, you would see the hard earthcrust in Spring...)
you would see plants in a competition.

 

[romanoweed]

here you see how Cambodian was sold in a Market. gives you sort of an Idea, that plants werent pampered compleetly.
https://youtu.be/v1x827YtSJw?t=3302 10
(i cant rule out if this was like a Hemp-Ditchweed crop, it still gives me a certain impression)

 

[Storm Shadow]

I'll have some really interesting data to throw out soon....My Aunt brought me some seeds from Kashan, Iran.... totally different area than where my original Iranians from Toyserkan... The genetics Ive already grown out are from High elevation and very Cold weather/tons of fresh water... These new genetics are from the lowland Desert area that's hot/dry .... I got these a couple months ago... Vegged them out for like 6 weeks+ and will be flowering them out very soon..... They smell different than my previous Iranians.... they're uniform also in their growth.... more stout and very heavy thick foliage ... these are going to be some colorful plants

 

[star crash]

I’d love to see the Fan leaves … nice score

 

[Piff_cat]

It'd be interesting to track dna transcription upregulating and epigenetic influences starting with germplasm known to be original location. I think alot of the desirable memorable traits from colombian thai etc can be lost within a few seed generations if altitude uv light and diurnal temp/light hours are changed. Gene silencing and novel new traits are gained and lost quickly when it comes to secondary metabolites. We remove alot of the natural stress growing indoors which inevitably muddles the volatile traits. Rks for example if skunk 18 resulted from torture trials with pests drought etc the plant changed amount and type of products to deal with these situations . Pest signaling pheromones are so interesting and exact. Ocimene mimics the alarm scent aphids use to warn others away. Skunk cabbage mimics tge the smell of carrion to attract pollinators, Flys or beetles who eat dead flesh

 

[Sunshineinabag]

It'd be interesting to track dna transcription upregulating and epigenetic influences starting with germplasm known to be original location. I think alot of the desirable memorable traits from colombian thai etc can be lost within a few seed generations if altitude uv light and diurnal temp/light hours are changed. Gene silencing and novel new traits are gained and lost quickly when it comes to secondary metabolites. We remove alot of the natural stress growing indoors which inevitably muddles the volatile traits. Rks for example if skunk 18 resulted from torture trials with pests drought etc the plant changed amount and type of products to deal with these situations . Pest signaling pheromones are so interesting and exact. Ocimene mimics the alarm scent aphids use to warn others away. Skunk cabbage mimics tge the smell of carrion to attract pollinators, Flys or beetles who eat dead flesh

by far the closest I've tasted to gasey,greasey why u spray in my face pipe lepew smack to the nostrils I've tasted since 91' I'm going deep jnto these.....I will never an opportunity like this pass me by again!

 

[Roms]

I'll have some really interesting data to throw out soon....My Aunt brought me some seeds from Kashan, Iran.... totally different area than where my original Iranians from Toyserkan... The genetics Ive already grown out are from High elevation and very Cold weather/tons of fresh water... These new genetics are from the lowland Desert area that's hot/dry .... I got these a couple months ago... Vegged them out for like 6 weeks+ and will be flowering them out very soon..... They smell different than my previous Iranians.... they're uniform also in their growth.... more stout and very heavy thick foliage ... these are going to be some colorful plants

Sounds BLD bro Happy repro/preserv/selection good luck Storm Shadow! (Here Syrian project soon)

 

[Lebanizer]

I'm not sure we're really talking about landraces proper more like domesticates.

 

[Roms]

True landraces are rare ya know, only rhythm of spots where human culture is related since centuries, selection, medicine, spririt rituals etc A big dozen true ones in the world imho, with real educated farmers i mean.

All others are heirlooms mixed, domesticated or not, and a big majority that often become feral without selection culture heritage.

 

[Lebanizer]

True landraces are rare ya know, only rhythm of spots where human culture is related since centuries, selection, medicine, spririt rituals etc A big dozen true ones in the world imho, with real educated farmers i mean.

All others are heirlooms mixed, domesticated or not, and a big majority that often become feral without selection culture heritage.

Farmers = domesticates. The term landrace is really being abused I feel.

 

[Roms]

Yeah but farmers doesn't mean educated people with agronomy/biology/selection/improvement skills.

A majority of heirlooms are feral even with farmers. True landraces are different ya!

 

[Lebanizer]

Roms I didn't get your point about being educated in agronomy etc. Could you expand on that ? It's a bit unclear.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Farmers = domesticates. The term landrace is really being abused I feel.

landrace definition says they are domesticated plants ,
you must be thinking of wild stands of cannabis vs landrace plants ...

 

[Donald Mallard]

A landrace is a domesticated, locally adapted, traditional variety of a species of animal or plant that has developed over time, through adaptation to its natural and cultural environment of agriculture and pastoralism, and due to isolation from other populations of the species.

 

[mexcurandero420]

Yeah but farmers doesn't mean educated people with agronomy/biology/selection/improvement skills.

A majority of heirlooms are feral even with farmers. True landraces are different ya!

Farming in the past went from father to son with the knowledge they had.A farmer did selection of the crops he grew.Learned also the practice in the field and improvement.If there was a better plant in the field, he kept the seeds for next year crop.

Landraces are more feral by open pollination and with less selection.A heirloom must be at least 50 years old, but you can say it's a landrace with a name, also open pollinated but with more selection.A good example are the old bean varieties, corn, potatoes etc

 

[Roms]

Roms I didn't get your point about being educated in agronomy etc. Could you expand on that ? It's a bit unclear.

I mean that a lot of farmers ("third world") do not select the best seeds from the best females and do not cut and unselect some males herma before. Simple common sens of agriculture but that is often sadly lost with time in oral cultures.

That said there's a few places in the world where the human culture is really strong according cannabis, those few lands produce the true rare landraces imho. (selected for improvement)

 

[troutman]

If a person took lets say a couple of types and grew them outdoors in a new location they would locally adapt after some time.
But to make it to official Landrace status they would have to be open pollinated over basically a 100+ years there. It would take
an effort from several generations of people obviously to achieve that. Making an Heirloom which takes about 50 years is the
most any single person could achieve and even then the person wold have to start very early in life to make it happen.

Either way, new Landraces can be created if people can work long enough to achieve that goal.