the "real" landrace debate

[Lebanizer]

landrace definition says they are domesticated plants ,
you must be thinking of wild stands of cannabis vs landrace plants ...

Ok. It seems a bit counterintuitive given the etymology of the word. You'd expect the word "landrace" (not just for cannabis), ie a race specific to a land, to designate a race having evolved on its own without human intervention as opposed to a classic/tradionnal domesticate/cultivar. But OK a landrace -in English at least- is a domesticate.

However if we accept that a landrace implies human action, there's something that is peculiarly missing from this discussion, which has been focusing too much on the genetic aspect, and that is the human culture associated with a given landrace. Each landrace is connected to a unique human culture and you don't find a lot of that in the western cannabis scene where a lot is being grown in pots in artificial environments or eratically and sporadically outdoors. In the world of wine making there is a French term that is often used : terroir. The term comes from the French word "terre" meaning "soil, land, earth". Strictly speaking it usually designates the sort of environnment (nature of the soil, climate, farming practices etc) that gives the plant/animal/crop its specificity ie what allows the specific expression of phenotypes. However the term also conjures up notions of cultural attachment to a land, a set of customs specific to the peasantry who work that very land and who have inhabited it for many generations. A landrace is linked to a terroir which is linked to a culture. In other words, there is an implication of a specific culture and a specific human history and the passing of time to define a landrace. I don't see a lot of that going on with western heirlooms.

 

[Lebanizer]

If a person took lets say a couple of types and grew them outdoors in a new location they would locally adapt after some time.
But to make it to official Landrace status they would have to be open pollinated over basically a 100+ years there. It would take
an effort from several generations of people obviously to achieve that. Making an Heirloom which takes about 50 years is the
most any single person could achieve and even then the person wold have to start very early in life to make it happen.

Either way, new Landraces can be created if people can work long enough to achieve that goal.

Very good troutman ! I agree whole heartedly ! Maybe we can say that a heirloom is the work of a single man while a landrace is the work of an entire people/culture.

 

[Lebanizer]

I mean that a lot of farmers ("third world") do not select the best seeds from the best females and do not cut and unselect some males herma before. Simple common sens of agriculture but that is often sadly lost with time in oral cultures.

That said there's a few places in the world where the human culture is really strong according cannabis, those few lands produce the true rare landraces imho. (selected for improvement)

I would very strongly qualify that comment. Hashish landraces were created by selecting/resowing the most resin rich plants over time while ganja landraces were created by selecting/resowing the most potent females (effectively breeding out CBD). In fact this is how all the crops human use today were created : by improving their caracteristics generations after generations, from father to son as mexcurandero420 said.

 

[romanoweed]

for me this heirloom versus Landrace differecnciation is way too complicted to differ.. Most often we cant even tell if a Landrace-seed was recently hit by Hybrid pollen.
So, why would we try to find out if it was a bit more heirloom /or a bit more Landrace,., If all we can do is rely on the people that give us the seed.(their verdict must not be scientifical fact)

Important is just to know Scientists assume adaption to a Region over time, and influence from humans ways of processing/or taste, wich is also sometimes bound to a region (tradition).

 

[romanoweed]

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[Chi13]

A landrace is a domesticated, locally adapted, traditional variety of a species of animal or plant that has developed over time, through adaptation to its natural and cultural environment of agriculture and pastoralism, and due to isolation from other populations of the species.

This deserves repeating. Landrace means a specific thing.

From Angus' blog TRSC
"Landraces are not wild plants. Far from it. All fine traditional pot is produced from domesticated Cannabis. Domestication means farmers selecting plants for desired traits such as potency and aroma, and specific purposes, be it bud (ganja) or resin (charas). For landraces, this process of artificial selection has being going on for generations, and in regions such as Afghanistan or Nepal, for millennia, long before the hippies came along. In the unlikely event that you’re an old-timer who got to India before Allen Ginsberg, history’s original cannabis farmers are still old enough to be your great-great-great-great-great-great-grand-momma and then some.

High-grade ganja and charas didn’t just happen naturally. They’re a coproduction by nature and humanity. Traditional selection is significantly less intensive than that received by modern hybrids, which owe their qualities to so-called ‘cloning’. But it absolutely is artificial selection, a conscious or unconscious direction by human desire and attention".
https://landrace.blog/2019/04/30/lan...ional-strains/

 

[Piff_cat]

​ Very informative chart by irrazig

 

[Rakkasan]

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[marijuanamat]

The true word "landrace" is any plant from populations of plants from parts of the world where cannabis has been grown in isolation to outside genetics for hundreds to thousands of years. Nowadays it's very hard to find seeds that haven't been tainted by modern bred varieties. Take Zamal which has been grown on the reunion island for about 600 years, from when slaves from India were brought there by the French. It was uninhabited before then so there was no cannabis there. That is a landrace. Roughly the same time cannabis made its way to the Americas. The oldest true landraces obviously come from north-west china around 12000 bc and south of the Himalayas after that according to a gene study .

 

[Storm Shadow]

Lowland Iranian males… I was able to toss all the males in veg but these last couple were late showing their sex…I have 20+ females in flower atm

 

[Storm Shadow]

Ive defoliated these plants once a few weeks ago… the fan leaves were getting out of control

 

[Roms]

(...) Take Zamal which has been grown on the reunion island for about 600 years, from when slaves from India were brought there by the French. It was uninhabited before then so there was no cannabis there. That is a landrace. Roughly the same time cannabis made its way to the Americas. (...)

(The word Zamal comes from Zamala, Madagascar, where 2200 BP fossil pollen has been found )

 

[therevverend]

I'll have some really interesting data to throw out soon....My Aunt brought me some seeds from Kashan, Iran.... totally different area than where my original Iranians from Toyserkan... The genetics Ive already grown out are from High elevation and very Cold weather/tons of fresh water... These new genetics are from the lowland Desert area that's hot/dry

Awesome. Those should be very interesting. I picked up Indian Landrace Exchange's Durand Line seeds last year. Most of them are from the lowlands near Kandahar. Very different from what we think of Afghans here in the West. What we have are the mountain types, the Hindu Kushes for instance. These finish later, usually into November. Most of them get huge, 10 feet or more with lots of branching. Very different smells. Some of the strongest gasoline smells ever. Strong nutty smells too, pistachio and cashew. Along with some crazy ranky gross smells like no other I've seen. These lowland desert Balochistan and Kandahar types are no doubt very similar to the ones across the border in Iran.

As far as what's a 'landrace'. It's not complicated. In all of plant and animal breeding it's only ganja growers that have this endless debate about what's a landrace, whether or not something is a 'true landrace'. The term means literally 'from the farm'. In areas without modern industrialized farming, which was the entire world before 100 years ago, farmers created their own seedstock and livestock. From the previous crop. They didn't buy new seeds every year. They didn't have use dialed in fertilizers (sometimes no fertilizer at all) or easy irrigation or machine equipment. They had to work with what they had so their plants and animals had to adapt to the local conditions. This is what a landrace is, very simple.

Landraces certainly have their uses, especially for breeding new varieties, but they also have drawbacks. They're adapted to a certain climate, soil, and region and a certain type of farming tech. Once the seeds or animals are removed from the area they will encounter a different selective pressure. For instance growing indoors. And rather then sowing the seed directly in the ground where very few will survive an indoor grower will carefully hatch each seed and nurse it to health. On a farm most of these seedlings would be culled. Even if a strain is a true landrace line within two or three generations it changes very quickly. This is why even if you have a Thai stick line or Columbian line from the 1970s that isn't hybridized it's looks and effect could be very different. It has become an 'heirloom line'. Indoors these types tend to have wider leaves, stockier growth, faster flowering, less root growth, etc. etc.

 

[flower~power]

Lowland Iranian males… I was able to toss all the males in veg but these last couple were late showing their sex…I have 20+ females in flower atm

I love what you doAre those 1 L containers , or 2 L containers?

 

[Storm Shadow]

6 inch pots bro.... I treat these plants horrible... rootbound....over fert.... too much light....gnarly foliar sprays.... anything I can do to make them herm...Real Landrace genetics Herm like a Beach....These new Iranians smell like Persian food.... I've never smelled Fuel in the any of the Highland or Lowland Iranians... The common terp with the Highland Iranians is Terpinolene...its so dominant in the crosses.... Im almost done flowering 15-20 Iranian x Master Cookies and Terpinolene is just taking over... Only a couple plants have that insane master kush lemon fuel ...Flowering times in my original lines are all over the place,,,, from 8 weeks to never finishing .. like literally at 16 weeks I just gave up because they looked like they were just starting to flower....

 

[flower~power]

My Cambodian / Molokai female wants an Iranian stud for conjugal duties !

 

[Storm Shadow]

Lowland Iranian keepers … I had over 20 females and 3/4 of them. Hermied between weeks 1-6 all got tossed… I stressed these out to the point of death… tons of overwatering and feeding to push their limits… this one smells like str8 Ammonia

 

[Storm Shadow]

Here’s the 2nd keeper pheno… this one smells sweeter… got way more stressed out… I’d say about 20% of these lowland Iranians got really colorful

 

[RingtailCanyon]

Cbgs most noted effect is reducing ocular pressure . Korea japan Taiwan east africa all have history of ancestor worship in religion aided by cannabis. Many ne asian strains have a high lignin count. When burned lignin releases plumes of thick white smoke and pleasant smells. The reduction of ocular pressure can give off a trance quality and white smoke can serve as a canvas for visions. Early folk medicine and magic are intertwined especially in isolation such as North vietnam laos thai karen hmong khmu all known for their skill in spells potions etc. Africa is especially interesting because it's basically all drug cannabis not much fiber being grown. Cbg and cbc also shown strong anti depressant serotonin inducing qualities. Strawberry cough is high in cbg cbc and thc. A full spectrum rso literally felt like mdma if not better! Here is a good nevil haze example profile
drvgrinspoon

look at the eyes on this jomon sculpture

 

[sneezydog]

eyes look like coffee beans...