oldfogey8
Well-known member
WTF? Sounds like they saw an older man they thought they could outsmart and steal his property or just wreck it and leave.
The Original O'l Farts Club.
- Thread starter Putembk
- Start date
@HempKat -- You gotta read my novel, The Cadet -- The Adventures of a New World Pioneer in the 17th Century.Yeah if you don't focus on the sugar coated history. When the Native Americans first sold land to the pilgrims they thought they were getting over on them by getting blankets and trinkets because they thought the idea of someone actually owning land was just crazy. Alas little did they know, the white man was going to keep coming and coming and taking and taking. Eventually driving them to the edge of extinction and then eventually herd them into some of the worst lands left and think they did right by the Indians. I guess because they let them have Casinos?
You will find the early Manhattan Island situation was considerably more complex than the Injuns getting snookered.
The fact is that the bustling metropolis of Nieuw Amsterdam (NY) was living on the dragon's lip. And the natives actually saved the colonists asses from outright starvation, trading schepels (carrying sacks) of wheat for wampum.
Moreover, a dude named van Dyke (yes, related to UNO who) murdered an indian girl for picking a peach. The girl was the daughter of a chief.
This pissed off the indians enough that they just came down and did a Custer on all the population** -- took the whole colony prisoner. Then they released half to go get some wampum to free the other half of the population.
** "War canoes each holding 18 men were in a line three bowshots long..."
Everybody eventually got released, except for one chimney-cleaning boy.
The van Dyke guy was hit with so many arrows and tomahawks that his body did not reach the ground.
Betcha din' learn that when you learned the story of the $24 land buy. <-- Total fiction, btw.
Anyway: The hard truth is that when two cultures meet, no matter how much good will or ill will occurs, the weaker culture will be conquered. Always.
So if yer gonna dump on Whitey, you'd also better include the Mayans, the Aztecs, the Mongols, the Egyptians, the Romans, and a truly endless list of genuine ratbastid conquerers of weaker cultures.
It is simply a human condition. We are predators.
Oh so it's like Beetlejuice?I think it's mandatory after we said partyboobs 3 times
OleReynard
Well-known member
Pass
While I am at the $24 land buy. I wish schools would pass on the truth, but alas...
The Dutch din' give the injuns $24 in cash. Duh. The one document (written decades after the fact) listed the payment to the injuns was for Staten Island. This is what the colonists paid and what they got for it:
“10 boxes of shirts, 10 ells of red cloth, 30 pounds of powder, 30 pairs of socks, 2 pieces of duffel, some awls, 10 muskets, 30 kettles, 25 adzes, 10 bars of lead, 50 axes and some knives.”
But what must be noted (and is ignored by essentially all but scholars) is that the land was NOT SOLD to the settlers for that price.
In Law in American History: Volume 1, law professor G. Edward White interprets the Manhattan “sale” from the Indians' point of view as “not relinquishing the island, but simply welcoming the Dutch as additional occupants,” in the context of a property rights system that was different from the Europeans’, but not nonexistent. They “allowed the Dutch to exercise what they thought of as hunting or use rights on the island” and assumed continuing rights of their own, in which case the deal seems much better for the Indians than legend would have us believe.
The Dutch din' give the injuns $24 in cash. Duh. The one document (written decades after the fact) listed the payment to the injuns was for Staten Island. This is what the colonists paid and what they got for it:
“10 boxes of shirts, 10 ells of red cloth, 30 pounds of powder, 30 pairs of socks, 2 pieces of duffel, some awls, 10 muskets, 30 kettles, 25 adzes, 10 bars of lead, 50 axes and some knives.”
But what must be noted (and is ignored by essentially all but scholars) is that the land was NOT SOLD to the settlers for that price.
In Law in American History: Volume 1, law professor G. Edward White interprets the Manhattan “sale” from the Indians' point of view as “not relinquishing the island, but simply welcoming the Dutch as additional occupants,” in the context of a property rights system that was different from the Europeans’, but not nonexistent. They “allowed the Dutch to exercise what they thought of as hunting or use rights on the island” and assumed continuing rights of their own, in which case the deal seems much better for the Indians than legend would have us believe.
OleReynard
Well-known member
I smoke less these days. Cuz of quality old gearYa - same with me - it's been feast or famine - as far as cannabis is concerned over the years - when you are growing alot then you seem to consume several joints per day - but I'm not growing much - these days - I only have some 'erb in the fall - once I've grown a few plantson my balcony - because I refuse to buy any - that money is best spent on food/bills and my kids - so often I don't have any at all - unless occasionally someone might give me a bit of bud/hash or a vape pen to try -
Due to the above - I'm not addicted to cannabis in any way really - although I do enjoy it immensely - when it's around - it helps me to sleep and not worry about things - that otherwise would bother me -
Truth be told ,the same shit happened to me as an electrician
@Capt.Ahab
I was oink hunting over by Lake Okeechobee on a ranch. Came around a big bush, and there was a longhorn like this one (without the hood ornament) standin' there, looking at me placidly:
I had no idea until that very moment just how unbelievably huge their horns are. Lookit that lady -- she could not reach from one tip to the other.
I was oink hunting over by Lake Okeechobee on a ranch. Came around a big bush, and there was a longhorn like this one (without the hood ornament) standin' there, looking at me placidly:
I had no idea until that very moment just how unbelievably huge their horns are. Lookit that lady -- she could not reach from one tip to the other.
Last edited:
I'm onna roll -- Remember the scene in Little Big Man where it is full winter, and off in the distance you could hear hear an ominous flute playing the "Garryowen"?-
"Seems sometimes the grass don't grow and the sky isn't blue..." <-- Like the treaty said.
Yeah. And there were fresh white scalps found in the tipis there after that massacre.
It was just two cultures. Not right or wrong; just life or death.
"Seems sometimes the grass don't grow and the sky isn't blue..." <-- Like the treaty said.
Yeah. And there were fresh white scalps found in the tipis there after that massacre.
It was just two cultures. Not right or wrong; just life or death.
This is true sadly. As a person who is 1/4 Iroquois I know that the natives killed each other on a regular basis before the whites arrived. Ironicaly, my white ancestors were given this farmland so that they could protect the other pioneers from the native attacks. Suffering is no respecter of race.
Actually I knew a lot of that and more. They did offer them stuff for land I never heard a dollar amount applied. Them snooking the Indians is the sugar coated version they teach you in school. The real story is the Indians just took whatever they wanted to give them because they didn't really think of Manhattan as being theirs to give. For the Indians it was more like" Oh yeah sure, we'll let you give us these things we need in exchange for land that is not ours to give." But yeah I know the Indians were saving the white man from day one, teaching how to grow food and survive thru the winter their first year. I also am familiar with the Peach Tree War and how Henry Van Dyke killed an Indian girl over a peach. That was just the trigger there was a lot more "politics" if you will going on between the settlers of New Amsterdam and the Susquehannock Indians. Also land wan't all they took from the Indians. Our system of government wasn't just something our Forefathers cooked up all on their own, they actually copied it from a nation of I believe 7 tribes that was living further up north in New England.
As for whitey, I'm dumping on whitey because in the case of the American Indians white deserves it. It doesn't matter all those past cultures did. If all those past cultures jumped off bridges does that mean whitey should too? The old axiom "Two wrongs don't make a right" applies. What Van Dyke did wasn't the only time the white settlers attacked/killed Indians without cause. The problem is the white man just saw them as stupid savages because they lived a simpler life that was more sustainable and more in harmoney with the land, for thousands of years before the white man ever came. Since they didn't see things our way, didn't want what we want, we judged them as inferior and took advantage of them badly enough that the just started killing Indians on sight before they could come back and get revenge like they did on that guy that killed a girl over some peaches she picked from a tree that was there before the settlers. We just keep on screwing them over. Slowly killing them off, hunting them down, breaking treaties we made etc. Until they ended up on the Reservations they have now. There was even a time we took their children put them into adopted families and tried to teach the Indian out of them. If the Indians knew what was going to happen when we first showed up they would have killed us on the spot, Thanksgiving wouldn't have been a feast it would have been a massecre. Not only that but it would have been right for them to do so.
Last edited:
You would enjoy "City at the Center of the World" and "The Diary of Adrian van der donck. About new Amsterdam
Do you know where the practice of scalping started? It wasn't a native activity it was imported. Of course there were scalps in the teepees. It was by that time when the whites were routinely hunting Indians down. That scene in Little Big Man (a dramatization) wasn't the first treaty the whites broke. At that point I imagine for Indians, scalping a white man when they saw one was more a matter of survival.
Last edited:
Ummmm, Dad and his dad are both long dead, but prima facia evidence suggests that none of my blood line were celibate, and though I could indeed be a bastard child, my mother swears not and why would she lie?
Your time spent as a monk studying SOUPIP answers the pregnant question of where you gained your extensive sexual experience, after marrying your life-long soul mate in high school and remaining faithful all these years.
Given that 83 year olds represent only 0.5% of world population, even though they live longer, Kama Sutra Masters of SOUPIP must comprise an even smaller percent, which is probably why you are the only one I know, or that has at least revealed themselves to me, so I seek your advice and counsel on how the rest of us old farts and kindly fartesses can enjoy SOUPIP.
Hopefully in layman's terms that we can understand, instead of one of those Kone things, like celibate fathers or the sound of one hand with clap?
imiubu
Well-known member
Yes. And apparently it really worksOh so it's like Beetlejuice?
survival and good advertising
