The Official Hempy Bucket Thread

[Herbal extasy]

Mikado's in hempy buckets.

First time with hempies and I love them so far. No need to move plants to bathroom when changing nutes.

 

[marywanna2]

root mass pics

root mass pics

here's a couple of this years' crop root mass shots.

these started indoors in oct 2009 and were eventually grown outdoors in the garden. at their peak, they used almost 3 gallons of nutes per day EACH, spread over 3 daily feedings... they were slightly over a year old when harvested...

small container is about 6x6 inches, this sits atop a 3 gallon one. these were inserted into a 12 gallon container, but with only about the bottom 6 inches filled with perlite...

 

[Ty_Kaycha]

here's a couple of this years' crop root mass shots.

these started indoors in oct 2009 and were eventually grown outdoors in the garden. at their peak, they used almost 3 gallons of nutes per day EACH, spread over 3 daily feedings... they were slightly over a year old when harvested...

small container is about 6x6 inches, this sits atop a 3 gallon one. these were inserted into a 12 gallon container, but with only about the bottom 6 inches filled with perlite...

Was about to scream BS the 3gal of nutes a day until I looked at the pics. WOW Now that's some tree trunks on those f'ers!!! Great Job! Marywanna2

 

[Bonavendura]

hi! a taller thinner container is preferable to a shorter fatter one of the same volume given identical medium.

and here is why:

"There are two forces that cause water movement through soil - one is gravity, the other capillary action. Gravity needs little explanation, but for this writing I would like to note: Gravitational flow potential (GFP) is greater for water at the top of the pot than it is for water at the bottom of the pot. I'll return to that later. Capillarity is a function of the natural forces of adhesion and cohesion. Adhesion is water's tendency to stick to solid objects like soil particles and the sides of the pot. Cohesion is the tendency for water to stick to itself. Cohesion is why we often find water in droplet form - because cohesion is at times stronger than adhesion, water’s bond to itself can be stronger than the bond to the object it might be in contact with; in this condition it forms a drop. Capillary action is in evidence when we dip a paper towel in water. The water will soak into the towel and rise several inches above the surface of the water. It will not drain back into the source. It will stop rising when the GFP equals the capillary attraction of the fibers in the paper.

There is, in every pot, what is called a "perched water table" (PWT). This is water that occupies a layer of soil that is always saturated & will not drain at the bottom of the pot. It can evaporate or be used by the plant, but physical forces will not allow it to drain. It is there because the capillary pull of the soil at some point will equal the GFP; therefore, the water does not drain, it is "perched". If we fill five cylinders of varying heights and diameters with the same soil mix and provide each cylinder with a drainage hole, the PWT will be exactly the same height in each container. This is the area of the pot where roots seldom penetrate & where root problems begin due to a lack of aeration. From this we can draw the conclusion that: Tall growing containers are a superior choice over squat containers when using the same soil mix. The reason: The level of the PWT will be the same in each container, with the taller container providing more usable, air holding soil above the PWT. Physiology dictates that plants must be able to take in air at the roots in order to complete transpiration and photosynthesis."


this is from a contributor to one of the online gardening magazines. i've now seen the same principles stated on dozens of research papers.

later on, d9

Hello everyone ,
As you can see in my grow log this week i must buy almost 20 buckets .
First of all we all admit that square buckets is the most space efficient ,
but just let this behind.
As posted from delta9nxs in page 31 of this thread thin and tall buckets
is better that then shorter and fatter and i accept this scientisfic approach
Lets do some math.

We have two buckets
Bucket 1 20 cm diameter 47 cm height holds 14,7 liters
Bucket 2 28 cm diameter 24 cm height holds 14,7 liters

Bucket 1 at 2 inches( 5 cm ) from bottom holds 1,57 liters
Bucket 2 at 2 inches( 5 cm ) from bottom holds 3,00 liters

Plus on this the space for the roots at the bottom of the bucket where
they going to be crowded is half on Bucket 1 versus bucket 2.

Here comes my questions.


Finaly after this calculations tall and thin buckets remain better
than short and fatter ones ??
what about the available space for the roots to develop inside the
solution ??

If we place the drain hole at 4 inches ( 10 cm ) from the bottom
we have almost the same amount of solution sitting on both buckets
and the same space for the roots to crowd inside the solution.
This solves the available space for roots and the res capacity
or just mess up with the original recipe without reason ??

I would like to read your opinions on this even though i will search for
square containers and if i cannot find something that i can use
i will probably go for the short and fat ones that everyone uses.

 

[dubwise]

I would agree that square containers are more space efficient. As for the taller containers, sure, they'd be great to use too. My opinion is this....the roots are gonna thrive in a happy environment, no matter what that is. It's not like the roots just grow down into the "res" and stay there....at least mine dont, or so it seems. The roots do reach for the bottom and go nuts, but I feel like you can reach a real nice growth if when you're transplanting from the smaller cup to the larger container, if you spread the roots around as much as you can and cover, as oppose to diggin a hole and sticking it in there. It seems like when the roots are spread out, they evenly descend to the bottom of the bucket and go nuts....at a better rate. So if you were to use the taller bucket with more of a res then a smaller one, then sure, once the roots evenly hit the bottom, I bet they'd explode.

 

[marywanna2]

indoors, taller containers will decrease available headroom. every vertical inch counts...

also, wicking ability decreases with height too. so on bigger plants it seems to require more frequent feeding to keep the root zone somewhat evenly moist.

and thx for the feedback/hat tip ty_kaycha... i couldn't believe the nute consumption rate either... it became expensive to feed them. the stems were literally ripping themselves apart as them grew in circumference... i thought they were developing some sort of stem disease at first. haha

 

[RoachClip]

MW The size of them trunks are thicker then some in the tree trunks in my yard lol

 

[Ty_Kaycha]

... the stems were literally ripping themselves apart as them grew in circumference... i thought they were developing some sort of stem disease at first. haha

Sounds like you were growing the Incredible Hulk!
We have a local strain here in CO called Bruce Banner, but I've never seen it get huge like that yet. Again - Impressive!

 

[Bonavendura]

Back in time i was making some soil runs and i have notice that the roots perefer to crowded in the lower sections of the pots.
If we check the photo of the rootball that posted by osecretgardeno in post
#1555 of this thread we will notice that the roots once more prefer to crowded
in the lower sections of the bucket where the res is.
Of course roots expand everywhere but in the lower part of the bucket is always more.
Based on this observation i am asking about the smaller res
size in the tall and thin buckets.

@dubwise

You are correct about the speading of the roots during the transplant and i will
follow this in my transplants but the question remains
1) small and thin with drain hole @ 2 inches
2) small and thin with drain hole @ 4 inches
3) short and fat with drain hole @ 2 inches


@marywanna2

I agree that vertical space is critical but not in my case , i have plenty
vertical space and i am trying to save some horizontial space cause i need
to fit 20 containers in a 4*4 ( 1,2 m * 1,2m ) for veg and transfer them
to 3*8 (1m * 2m) for flowering.

 

[dubwise]

Why not run two tall pots, one with the hole @2" and one @4" and let us know what you come up with? It seems like it would work out better if there were more space at the bottom. (I too have no problem with vertical height. Our bloom room is setup to run 3 bulbs vertically, as we grow in size, we will add shelves and the additional lights.)

 

[zeke99]

I just started with Hempy buckets 6 months ago...I've this read this entire thread and learned a lot in particular from this person:

...

What follows are the most important points made by delta9nxs on this thread.

It's straight copy and paste:

We are talking about air “pore space” here.

Low pore + low pore = low pore

low pore + excellent pore = medium pore

excellent + excellent = excellent

The best media take in water fast and give it back fast, creating more air space as they do so.

turface is the best 100% reusable medium. it retains and wicks well, has great pore space, a cec equal to verm, and falls right off the roots after drying. if you can use a disposable medium, perlite, zeolite or coco are your best choices at this juncture. or perhaps a mix. hempy is reporting good results with his coco and perlite mix. peggy bradley from www.carbon.org prefers 50/50 perlite/coco.

turface is a heavier, more dense medium than perlite, verm, or coco and as such needs to be handled a little differently. if you intend to use it in a "hempy" style container drill multiple drain holes (6 or 8 3/8") at a lower level. i liked 1 1/4". worked fine for me. i grew some 10 oz plants in it with no problems. it also has a relatively high cec (cation exchange capacity), like vermiculite. this can be good for you if you are aware of it and manipulate it to your advantage. perlite has virtually none and that can be good for you too, if you are aware of it.

Now, on to the much debated topic of perlite and it's “wicking potential”. Perlite “wicks” or draws water up from the reservoir extremely well alone. You add verm to it to “hold back” some water in an attempt to extend watering intervals. The plants actually grow better when watered as frequently as possible because you are introducing fresh o2 and degassing co2 every time you water. Also correcting nutrient concentration and ph each time. If you water frequently you must have fast drainage to keep from creating anaerobic conditions. So, medium choice, container choice, and where you set your reservoir level all depend on your decision about how often you want to water. If you are short on plant time you want a mix that gets you the time frame between waterings you need. If you just want yield at all costs water every day. Both lucas of the lucas formula fame and ms peggy bradley of www.carbon.org prefer giving the plants just enough for one day. Think ahead about your needs.

Here are excerpts from several articles about perlite.

The first is from www.perlite.org, which is the perlite institute.

“The outstanding feature of perlite is the ease with which a constant supply of water and nutrients can be maintained in the substrate simply by placing the plant container in a shallow reservoir of nutrient solution. Perlite's strong capillary attraction for water automatically draws up solution from the reservoir at the same rate that water is removed by the plants. Nutrient enriched water is trapped in the tiny irregularities on the surface pf perlite particles where it is available for use by plant roots. Excess solution remains in the reservoir.”

this is from www.cropking.com

“Roots in perlite are always well aerated and well watered.”

my 10 gallon all perlite hempy's have thick, even root distribution. the reason you are seeing the stratifying is over watering. you are not quite allowing the medium to dry out enough. the air type roots don't have enough time to populate that region when it is always wet. this is not criticism or anything negative at all. hempy buckets, like most container systems, rely on the drying cycle to be successful. it is the same in standard nursery pots with any medium you choose.

it is my opinion at this point that perlite needs to be amended with an agent that has a decent cation exchange capacity, such as vermiculite, coco, peat, turface , or you name it as perlite has virtually no cec.

almost all my 100% perlite plants showed tip burn by harvest. Even the isis, in a 5 gal all perlite hempy, is showing it. Anytime i've used perlite mixed with turface I don't get it. My 100% turface plants never show it. I've never used verm and don't want to (see msds), but coco could fix it. There are pics all over the internet showing 100% perlite hempy's and a lot of them have tip burn. The ones that used hempy's verm/perlite ratio don't seem to show it as much. The only thing I can think of is that the cec of the amendments is somehow buffering the effect of strong chemical nutes.

i had a noticeable increase when i went to 2 gal from one, to a 3 from a 2, and a very pronounced increase when i went from a 3 to a 5. the plants are around 32-36" at flower. i usually veg about 7 weeks.

i looked at my yield records for the 5 gal containers and they average 9.86 oz.

9 mos of growing in 10 gal hempys using 100% perlite, i harvested an approx. average 10.25 oz of rock hard, dense med quality buds every week.​

 

[dubwise]

Great post Zeke!

 

[McCloud]

Seconded nice post Z.
I'm on my first hempy bucket grow and I'm using I believe to be the old recipe 3/4per 1/4verm, correct me if I am wrong.
Just found this thread after learning this technique elsewhere! great!

 

[Bonavendura]

Indeed Zeke very helpfull post ,
McCloud the original recipe is 3 parts perlite 1 part verm but
reading around here i counter some variations.
I am newb to Hempy's and i mix with 3/1 ratio.

 

[zeke99]

I'm running 3:1 coarse perlite to coarse vermiculite and 1:1 for seedlings (in mini-Hempy cups. When this bag of verm. is all used up, I'll probably switch it to another reusable medium. Maybe perlite and coco at the same ratios. I'd use the turface mvp, but that stuff is heavy and once in a while my lower back flares up terribly.

Does anyone else base the height of the drain hole on the volume of water the bucket will hold at that height?

With a hole one inch from the bottom, the white, two gallon paint buckets sold at Lowes and Home Depot will hold 500 ml.

2 inches = 1000 ml and so on...

I don't mind watering more often. It's the complete water containment and the ability to use perlite as the base that I like most about this style.

 

[McCloud]

I checked my sources and yup I made my buckets with 1/3 ratio too hehe, short memory

 

[Mybud]

ordered a bag of Hail from Suretogrow, has anyone worked with this product? zeke99 I also experimented with Turface worked pretty good, ended up as part of the big mix.

 

[Dojo]

Thank you for the very nice post zeke....So lemme get this straight....you recommend 3:1 coarse perlite to turface? and 1:1 on little cups? Im interested on peoples views of the drain hole height also...ive always wondered what if the hole was in the middle of the bucket

 

[zeke99]

That first post of mine to this thread (#1569) was an accumulation of knowledge (including the yield numbers) from the posts of delta9nxs in the first half of this thread. It's not my research, just a copy and paste. I did check out Turface MVP but haven't used it because of it's weight and my occasional back problems. I have been growing in Hempy buckets for the past 6 months, before that coco on e & f tables for a few years. The 3:1 perlite:verm ratio is what I started with and am comfortable with it. Is that a recommendation? Well I haven't tried anything else yet!

1:1 works well for for seedlings in mini-hempy cups and it just occurred to me try to root cuttings in those same mini-hempys.

 

[zeke99]

double post