The Official Hempy Bucket Thread

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[Confidential]

Thanks for the input, and ok screw that idea. Damn, if only there was a better alternative to vermiculite. I might go with coco, but I was hoping for something pH'd, bug free, salt free, which coco apparently sometimes is not. I'm tempted to test some completely random materials like sponges, hemp string, diced rapid rooters, etc, just for the hell of it. I REAAALLLY want to find something reusable and easy to work with.

I only opted for rockwool initially because of that old NBG 400W HPS Scrog grow, so epic.

*puts on thinking cap*

Hey Highlight ,

Forgive me if I missed something you posted earlier regarding this question, but why not go straight perlite? It's reusable and easy to work with. Plus you only have to buy one ingredient. Are you concerned with the slightly more frequent watering schedule?

 

[dubwise]

Y'know with 100% perlite, you can still leave them for a couple of days. I've got a few hempys in all perlite and they get fed at the same time the ones with vermiculite do. Perhaps I'm not running enough vermiculite to allow it to work better. We're experimenting with perlite/hydroton also (i've got a ton of the stuff) and would like to see if any salts remain on the hydroton after a grow. Anyone ever used hydroton w/ perlite?

 

[Confidential]

Y'know with 100% perlite, you can still leave them for a couple of days. I've got a few hempys in all perlite and they get fed at the same time the ones with vermiculite do. Perhaps I'm not running enough vermiculite to allow it to work better. We're experimenting with perlite/hydroton also (i've got a ton of the stuff) and would like to see if any salts remain on the hydroton after a grow. Anyone ever used hydroton w/ perlite?

Interesting. What size are your containers for each medium? Are you using fine, medium, or coarse perlite? Fine perlite retains water much better than larger grades, and can increase time between watering, all else equal [1]. Have you noticed any difference in growth rates between 100% perlite, and verm mix? What's your ratio?

I believe that hydroton doesn't have quite as good water retention quality as perlite, but either way you'll probably have some residual salts left over that would ideally need to be cleansed after each grow. How do you intend to test whether salts are present in the hydroton?

I hope you'll let us know the results of your experiment.

I'd be interested to see a hempy experiment that used a combination of fine and coarse grades of perlite in differing ratios to find a balance between maximum aeration (from the coarse), and water retention (from the fine). The article I linked below really got my gears turning.

[1]

Edit:
Some more interesting reading.
CONTAINER GROWING WITH 100% PERLITE AND PERLITE/PEAT MIXES
ROLE OF PERLITE IN HYDROPONIC CULTURE
INDOOR GARDENING WITH PERLITE
HORTICULTURAL PERLITE - THE NATURAL GROWING MEDIA FOR OUTDOOR GARDENING

All taken from http://perlite.org/perlite_info.htm

 

[Highlight]

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[Confidential]

Hi Confidential, only reason I haven't gone 100% perlite is because I've read that it doesn't wick as well, that the taproot seems to hit the bottom with less branching out, and that the tiny root hairs don't thrive as well without the vermiculite. However, I've cloned in 100% perlite, and yea it works well.

The more I think about it, rapid rooters are slightly acidic, but it seems like they would hold water pretty well if they were all chopped up and mixed in at a lower ratio. Then again, that kind of defeats the renewable resource idea. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan..

IMHO, fine grade perlite would be a great place to start experimenting. It wicks very well. Even medium grade perlite wicks decently.

 

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[Confidential]

That looks encouraging. I've seen some awesome grows in 100% perlite

thcf*****: /forums/f5/perlite-vermiculite-10790/
^This guy grows in big totes. You'll have to google the suffix (url is censored).

The question is, is the end result better or worse than the original recipe? In a SOG of tall pots 100% perlite, with a good watering technique, might be awesome. I have never read a conclusive side by side comparison, theres always variables and mistakes.

The above pic was 34 days from seed in a 16 oz solo cup filled 3/4 full with perlite. The stuff wicked so well that after the seeds spent 24 hours in a cup of water, they went into the 100% perlite hempy cup to germinate. No issues whatsoever.

Typical veg watering schedule was every 3-4 days, but they could have gone longer if necessary. Cups weren't bone dry. The internal res was moist, but also not filled with visible liquid.

I'm not sure I can answer your question with respect to all the variables you listed.

I agree with you about the lack of quality side by side comparisons. Drives me nuts. I think ultimately your end results will depend on your individual environment, since the medium is one of many variables which influence watering frequency, nutrient uptake, plant growth, etc. I like the straight fine perlite because it's simple, it's cheaper than adding an extra ingredient, it's reusable, it has the best ratio of air space to water retention (and thus nutrient retention), and because it most definitely works well. With that said, I've seen other medium recipes that work well for other people.

If you have the space, and an extra clone, I'd recommend the fine perlite as an experiment. Worst case scenario it doesn't work as well in your environment as a perlite/verm mix and you can cleanse the perlite and reuse it for a new batch.

Either way I hope you find what works best for you, and please do share with us so we can learn from your experience.

 

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[Ty_Kaycha]

I've tried so many different variations on hempy's. And for the longest time I was running just straight perlite, though it was a mixture of FF's Big & Chunky and #3. No problems, good yield.
I'm currently straying from hempy's slightly. Running a modified earthbox/hempy bucket thingy (probably going to call them 'Buddha Buckets'). Medium is also soil but very heavily mixed with perlite and a few other amendments. Along with experimenting using a combo of CRF & water-soluble ferts. Why you might ask? I love the yield I'm able to get from Hempy's but I've been disappointed in taste. Not that it's bad, but it lacks the subtleties of soil-grown. Guess I'm reaching for the Golden Bud or something.

Once I do some more fine-tuning over the course of my next couple of runs, I'll post a DIY of a build & journal a run.

 

[bobman]

I have a question for anybody that uses vermiculite in their mix. Does this mix keep moisture in the first few inches over the course of 2+ days? I clone in straight vermiculite using 3oz plastic cups with holes in the bottom. But I do hempy in straight perlite. I have been shocked at how long my perlite hempys can go without watering. But the first few inches dry out very fast. Even though I see no ill effects I wonder if that is effecting growth rates. Don't get me wrong I am very happy but it makes me wonder if the top of the root ball is getting enough moisture to maximize growth. I know from cloning with it, ivermiculite wicks better than anything I have seen. In fact if any of you are looking for a new idiot proof way to clone I would suggest looking into vermiculite in 3 oz plastic cups. You do not have to worry about the clones falling over if you knock into the tray plus the vermiculite wicks so well I just pour water in the bottom of the tray to water them. If you have to leave town or be away from the grow all you have to do is pour water in the tray and they can last for a while.

 

[Confidential]

Man you make a convincing argument. Did you transplant after 34 days into something bigger? I know that once the roots hit the reservoir at the bottom, growth explodes, so what about flower, after you're roots are tied up in the solo cup.

It was dropped into a 1qt clear container (no issues w/ algae b/c they only got exposed to limited indirect light, and weren't overwatered) for flowering. No tampering with the roots was done during the transplant. Just dropped the in-tact rootball on top of a bed of perlite which was filled to the level of the drainage hole, then filled in. This allowed the well established mat of roots which formed in the very bottom of the hempy solo cup res to still have 1" of downward and lateral growth space (through the new res and out the sides), but experience no stunting while waiting for the roots to hit the res. It was transplanted and thrown into 12/12 on the same day. Showed sex in 4 days. I can't say the results are typical as it could be that this particular strain (shwag bagseed) could just be incredibly hardy, but I have no complaints.

It is awesome to see when the roots hit the rez. It just explodes. 12 hours after a good scheduled (slightly modified reverse lucas) feeding (1ml micro/.75 bloom GH flora in 16oz tap water) they would regularly grow close to an inch.

One thing I think is very important is to use proper sized containers to get the good root growth. The above case is micro, but can be scaled up as big as you want as long as you incrementally increase container size, rather than going from say a solo cup to a 5 gallon bucket. Small increases in container size allows the roots to quickly fill a small volume of medium, and once transferred into a slightly larger container, the established rootball provides a nice big area around the bottom and edges to expand into the new perlite. This leaves no (or very few) dead zones in the new container.

The technique also helps with plant stability, which I've heard complaints about in pure perlite. You can see how well the roots are holding the perlite together in the picture. Just gotta force them to fill in the available space to provide a nice stable base, but not let them get too rootbound before transplanting.

The only downside is if you're planning on flowering in a larger container, there will be more transplanting required. Though it takes all of a few seconds to fill a new container to the drain hole, pull the plant from its old container, drop in new container, fill in edges and top, and saturate with water, it may not be as practical if you've got a commercial room going. I'm not sure what would be more practical in that situation, though. Maybe aero or nft? But then you're stuck with pumps and more monitoring.

Anyways, just some observations. I really can't seem to find a major downside to the all perlite technique. It's not for lack of trying. As you said, hempy is just about idiot-proof. It's such a great way for beginners to get a feel for reading a plant's needs, provided the beginner can follow very simple directions, and uses a quality water soluble nutrient that is complete in its contents.

 

[Ty_Kaycha]

Bobman - easy fix - cover the top of your medium with either plastic bag/sheet or use a lid. What you're experiencing is evaporation loss - using a cover of sorts minimizes loss and helps reduce watering needs.

 

[Confidential]

The above pic was 34 days from seed in a 16 oz solo cup filled 3/4 full with perlite.

I should also mention it was under 52 watts of 6500K CFLs (about 6" away from the bulbs... yeah I know...) in .6 cubic feet. Not the epitome of speedy growth, but strong given the environment and the idiot responsible for them.

 

[dubwise]

Great information Confidential! I use a medium perlite. My ratio with vermiculite is around 25%. I do believe I'll have some residual salts left on the hydroton after a grow, but not as much as I had with the ebb & flow I used originally. Our containers range in size from 2gal to 5gal. Short vegged plants get the smaller container. We have a perpetual system running 500w T5 in veg and 1kw hps vertical in bloom. Also, we germinate directly in the cups (only moving the seedling ~3 weeks from planting with great results. I will post information on the side by side (100%, 75/25 mix, perlite/hydroton mix) after.

 

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[dubwise]

You can get pots at a bakery. Usually free or $1. They discard the containers the icing comes in. They work great, but you will have to paint or tape them.

 

[Ty_Kaycha]

Yea my biggest obstacle right now is finding cheap pots. I've looked everywhere for some smaller sized pots suitable for 12/12. Any suggestions? I might try the stacking method with cups, but won't it get too top heavy? I'm totally ready to sprout these girls as soon as I find some pots lol. *arghh*

What size are you looking for?
Bakeries & doughnut shops are good places for 3.5 & 5 gallon buckets.
Flower shops/Florists are good for other sizes (don't remember specifically which sizes)
I know the DollarTree stores in my area also sell some decent buckets in various sizes now too. All priced @ a buck. I've seen 1 & 2 gallon there.

 

[Ty_Kaycha]

You can get pots at a bakery. Usually free or $1. They discard the containers the icing comes in. They work great, but you will have to paint or tape them.

I've been lazy before and was able to get a ton for free so I have been known just to double-up on the bucket. White is actually better at reflecting heat away than black. Depending on the wall thickness of the bucket you might not have to paint or cover. I have gotten some that were very heavy-duty. Typically though most frosting/icing buckets are fairly thin-walled.

 

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